Why you chose to attend RMC?

[macknightcr]

Just curious to see why you chose to attend RMC vs. Civi University.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Maybe before asking others why, you should explain your reasons.

Seems like proper courtesy.

 

[macknightcr]

discipline, structure, great academics, and develpment into great military officer.

 

[SupersonicMax]

I chose to attend RMC because I didn't know better.  If I had to do it again, I'd go CivU.

 

[macknightcr]

I know what you mean max, but I have tried civi u and it did not work out.  I feel I need the structure provided by the strict lifestyle of RMC.  Is that why you didn't have a good time?  I went to college here in the states, joined a fraternity partied hard, drank a lot and am ready to grow up.   

 

[tumbling_dice]

I chose RMC because I thought that if I'm going to commit myself, I might as well go the whole nine yards.  That and Civi U people have to deal with annoying things like University Liasion Officers, Weekend Leave Passes, and an extra four weeks of BMOQ.

 

[ChaosTheory]

I chose RMC because I thought that if I'm going to commit myself, I might as well go the whole nine yards.  That and Civi U people have to deal with annoying things like University Liasion Officers, Weekend Leave Passes, and an extra four weeks of BMOQ.

I would disagree, I turned down RMC and went to Civvy U.  In Civvy U you actually have to learn how to do everything yourself, much like the real military where you do not get everything babied to you.  If you need tuition money you have to put in the request for it, and then you have to do the paperwork justifying why you received said amount.

ULOs are not annoying to deal with, once a semester you send them an email and that's it.  Weekend leave passes?  Only if you go out of your area that you are posted to, same as if you are in RMC.  Four more weeks at BMOQ?  Nope, did the same amount of time as the RMC students at IAP and BOTP.

Don't get me wrong, RMC is a good option, but Civvy U builds officers who can actually do things for themselves.

 

[chris_log]

I can't resist, I chose to NOT go to RMC because I wanted to live the university experience.

If you want more reasons why I'm glad I didn't attend RMC (from an outsider's view, of course) feel free to PM me, as my views on that place generally get people's back up here.

That being said, if I could go back in time I'd attend RMC just for the heck of it, and of course so I can get the 'knock knock' benefits of going there.

 

[tumbling_dice]

I would disagree, I turned down RMC and went to Civvy U.  In Civvy U you actually have to learn how to do everything yourself, much like the real military where you do not get everything babied to you.  If you need tuition money you have to put in the request for it, and then you have to do the paperwork justifying why you received said amount.

ULOs are not annoying to deal with, once a semester you send them an email and that's it.  Weekend leave passes?  Only if you go out of your area that you are posted to, same as if you are in RMC.  Four more weeks at BMOQ?  Nope, did the same amount of time as the RMC students at IAP and BOTP.

Don't get me wrong, RMC is a good option, but Civvy U builds officers who can actually do things for themselves.

I'm not sure I agree with this 100%.  Note that I don't have any experience, but I would hardly call Civvy U a "real university experience".  I mean outside of having to find your a place to live and food to eat (although in a "real university experience" both are provided by the school for a fee, just like at RMC) "real university students" don't have the luxury of not having to work 40 hours a week while going to school in order to pay tuition, I don't think this quite compares to the "hassle" of filling out reimbursement paperwork.  I mean, sure you are bun yourself as opposed to sleeping under the roof of the CF, but Civvy U is hardly the harsh real world that many students make it out to be.

And the four week extra BOTC may be a new policy, but is was definetely included in the ROTP 2009 joining instructions.

 

[gcclarke]

I'm not sure I agree with this 100%.  Note that I don't have any experience, but I would hardly call Civvy U a "real university experience".  I mean outside of having to find your a place to live and food to eat (although in a "real university experience" both are provided by the school for a fee, just like at RMC) "real university students" don't have the luxury of not having to work 40 hours a week while going to school in order to pay tuition, I don't think this quite compares to the "hassle" of filling out reimbursement paperwork.  I mean, sure you are bun yourself as opposed to sleeping under the roof of the CF, but Civvy U is hardly the harsh real world that many students make it out to be.

And the four week extra BOTC may be a new policy, but is was definetely included in the ROTP 2009 joining instructions.

I would hardly say that the typical non-ROTP civvie U student works 40 hours a week while going to school. In fact, having been one myself, and with the fast majority of my friends during university also not having been on the government dime, we still managed to make it work without such marathon levels of effort on top of classes and coursework. There may have been a few who worked full time on top of school, but they were few and far between. The rest paid the bills through some combination or part-time jobs during the year, full-time jobs during the summer, and student loans.

To do otherwise is, frankly, sheer mismanagement of resources.

 

[chris_log]

I'm not sure I agree with this 100%.  Note that I don't have any experience, but I would hardly call Civvy U a "real university experience".  I mean outside of having to find your a place to live and food to eat (although in a "real university experience" both are provided by the school for a fee, just like at RMC) "real university students" don't have the luxury of not having to work 40 hours a week while going to school in order to pay tuition, I don't think this quite compares to the "hassle" of filling out reimbursement paperwork.  I mean, sure you are bun yourself as opposed to sleeping under the roof of the CF, but Civvy U is hardly the harsh real world that many students make it out to be.

And the four week extra BOTC may be a new policy, but is was definetely included in the ROTP 2009 joining instructions.

By real university experience I think he (and I know I) meant stuff like parties, girls, beer, the luxury of choosing when to go to class, being able attend class dressed like a hobo etc.

RMC, on the other hand, is none of those things (until they get permitted to leave...then the social retardation I described earlier starts to happen).

 

[tabernac]

By real university experience I think he (and I know I) meant stuff like parties, girls, beer, the luxury of choosing when to go to class, being able attend class dressed like a hobo etc.

RMC, on the other hand, is none of those things (until they get permitted to leave...then the social retardation I described earlier starts to happen).

The parties, girls, and beer still happens. Hell, my first few free weekends after FYOP were spent at CivyU parties with some other RMC friends. I figure that as a ROTP student and future scroll-holding officer, one should be no different in dress and deportment than RMC students while in an academic environment. There shouldn't even be the option of skiving your academic responsibilities, or attend class wearing any type of clothing that might reflect negatively on the CF. You just don't do that, for the simple reason that you are to be commissioned as an officer.

 

[chris_log]

The parties, girls, and beer still happens. Hell, my first few free weekends after FYOP were spent at CivyU parties with some other RMC friends. I figure that as a ROTP student and future scroll-holding officer, one should be no different in dress and deportment than RMC students while in an academic environment. There shouldn't even be the option of skiving your academic responsibilities, or attend class wearing any type of clothing that might reflect negatively on the CF. You just don't do that, for the simple reason that you are to be commissioned as an officer.

Well, I'm commissioned now...I do pretty well at my job, my NCO's don't hate me and I haven't killed or maimed anyone. Despite having attended classes in sweats and sporting a (patchy) grizzly adam's beard at times. At the end of the day, few people knew I was a CF member and of those that did...my favouring of sweatpants and extended naps didn't tarnish my image in their eyes.

And you're right, the parties do happen at RMC. Those fake CF ID's do help with that, eh? I even saw (and confiscated one) where I was.

 

[tabernac]

Well, I'm commissioned now...I do pretty well at my job, my NCO's don't hate me and I haven't killed or maimed anyone. Despite having attended classes in sweats and sporting a (patchy) grizzly adam's beard at times. At the end of the day, few people knew I was a CF member and of those that did...my favouring of sweatpants and extended naps didn't tarnish my image in their eyes.

Good for you. Doesn't change that fact that I still see that as skiving your duties. As an ROTP officer you should at least look the part. I'm sure others share that opinion. Call it holding yourself to a higher standard.

Those fake CF ID's do help with that, eh? I even saw (and confiscated one) where I was.

Wanna cookie? It's a good thing that fake IDs are pertinent while talking about dress and deportment for ROTP kids in an academic environment. As far as I know, HIE 102 isn't taught in a bar.

:

 

[Otis]

Not even two months ago we took a young applicant out of the Recruiting Centre and delivered him to the Police for having fake ID ... the ONLY reason he wasn't charged (and therefore PREVENTED from applying to the CF) was the fact that he didn't try to use the ID to identify himself to the CF.

Concentrate on your studies, avoid the fake ID and foolishness. You'll have 50+ years to drink, and PLENTY of opportunities where it's actually encouraged. Don't screw up your chances at a good life and full career for some stupid liquid courage so you can talk to some cutie at a bar ...

My  :2c:

 

[chris_log]

Wanna cookie? It's a good thing that fake IDs are pertinent while talking about dress and deportment for ROTP kids in an academic environment. As far as I know, HIE 102 isn't taught in a bar.

:

It was more to do with your naive idea about RMC's lofty ideals and standards. The place is a breeding ground for stupidity. Thats how I (and others) see it and frankly, I have yet to be proven otherwise.

Good for you. Doesn't change that fact that I still see that as skiving your duties. As an ROTP officer you should at least look the part. I'm sure others share that opinion. Call it holding yourself to a higher standard.

You may see it as that, thankfully the CF left me alone to complete my education and didn't ask any questions as long as I kept passing, didn't defraud them and stayed out of jail. I didn't have daily inspections, and I'm happier for it. I think dressing like a bellhop (all the school-specific uniforms resemble those worn by hotel employees) to go to class is silly, to each their own. The prospective ROTP-er needs only ask themselves how they'd rather spend 4 years at school (choose wisely, as once they're over you'll never have a chance to live like that again).

 

[SupersonicMax]

Dude, at least show respect.  Not wanting to go to RMC is one thing, lacking respect towards one of the oldest units in the Canadian military is an other thing.

 

[chris_log]

Dude, at least show respect.  Not wanting to go to RMC is one thing, lacking respect towards one of the oldest units in the Canadian military is an other thing.

Respect begets respect. I have no love for the place, just like some RMC grads have no love for those of us 'not good enough' to have attended charm school. It being one of the oldest 'units' isn't really an issue one way or the other. The place isn't whatever it once was (and it ain't just me saying that).

I didn't want to go there, I would sooner see RMC shut down and I have no time for those who exhibit 'RMC attitudes' outside of the campus grounds. 'tis my opinion, some share it, some don't.

 

[Roy Harding]

...

Concentrate on your studies, avoid the fake ID and foolishness. You'll have 50+ years to drink, and PLENTY of opportunities where it's actually encouraged. Don't screw up your chances at a good life and full career for some stupid liquid courage so you can talk to some cutie at a bar ...

My  :2c:

This is good advice.

Unfortunately - the only people likely to take it are people who have ALREADY been drinking for 50+ years, screwed up their chances at a good life and full career - and have experienced the effects of "liquid courage" many times over.

Roy

 

[gcclarke]

I'm totally with Piper on the whole "dress and deportment while attending classes" thing. The point of a uniform is, well, unformity. Not to ensure that you stick out from the crowd, as anyone who attended a civvie university would were they to do so each day in a shirt and tie. Civvie U ROTP students are not given a mandate by any higher authority with regards to what levels of dress are acceptable and what levels are not. For anyone else on a random internet forum to decide that these people are failing a standard that we made up is, in my humble opinion, rather bloody arrogant.

Another important factor is that not only are the civvie U students not required to maintain any particular level of dress, they are also not provided any funds that would allow them to upkeep said level of dress. Whereas not only are RMC students provided with the uniform they wear on a day to day basis, they even get free freakin' dry cleaning of said uniforms. To expect others to maintain the same level of dress, out of pocket on an Officer Cadet's salary, is rather ridiculous.

As for those exhibiting "RMC attitudes", well, it's been my experience that you really only get that from current cadets and really recent graduates. Even if the entire student population has managed to convince themselves that they're hot shit because they go to RMC (And I know that this isn't the case, and we're really talking about a subset here), I find they tend to be disabused of the notion rather quickly, when they hit the real world and the rest of the CF doesn't give a flying hoot what school they attended.

In fact, that's my advice to anyone reading this thread trying to chose between RMC and Civvie U. Pick whichever you think you would enjoy the most, as after the fact, no one is really going to care. RMC isn't going to make you into a better officer, you're going to make yourself into whatever calibre of officer you are able / willing to do. Everything else will follow.