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What would keep you in the army?

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I was reading a couple of threads, more specificly one about JTF 2 members leaving the forces for better paying jobs in the private security sector because of better pay. THat got me thinking, would you be more incline to serve in the  army longer if the pay was better or if the pay was slightly better and there was a larger budget or just a better budget?
 
Please, if they were in the armed forces at one time that means they had interest in the forces. Seeing as you said yourself that they left the forces for money its quite oblivious that if more money was allocated for better pay they would have probably stayed. Seeing as they are/ were interested in the forces and if they we had the bigger budget to pay the troops more money the likely would not have left. Of course some people are not meant for the CF or they want to spice things up a little and leave.

UBIQUE!!!
 
Cpl.Banks(Cdt.) said:
Please, if they were in the armed forces at one time that means they had interest in the forces. Seeing as you said yourself that they left the forces for money its quite oblivious that if more money was allocated for better pay they would have probably stayed. Seeing as they are/ were interested in the forces and if they we had the bigger budget to pay the troops more money the likely would not have left. Of course some people are not meant for the CF or they want to spice things up a little and leave.

UBIQUE!!!

Interesting quote from someone who is not in the forces.

My experience has been that money is usually not the deciding factor in the reg f. A Cpl makes 50K+ a year, plus allowances etc.

The guys that leave are usually bored. There has been nothing going on for the last couple of years, so they push brooms around the lines and play garatrooper for the NCOs. They they watch reservists get platoon tasks, and jammy goes like CIMIC. So they quit. Ironically, if you are not otherwise employed, you seem to have a better chance of being deployed as a reservist than as a reg f soldier. The carrot is always dangled of some "last minute tasking" like tearing down in Kabul, but in reality it never seems to come through. Just the stick of garrison routine.

What would keep guys in? The chance to deploy and do the job they trained for, plain and simple. The exodus by the Hill guys does'nt surprise me though - how many people can turn down $1,000 US a day? Government work can't hope to compete with that!

 
A cadets perspective on whether to stay in or to get out..... after 18 years in, I might start taking their advice!!! Or not. BTW, I was in cadets, and I don't recall giving Reg F guys career advice, or questioning their motives for leaving. But that was before the advent of the internet, which has made everybody smarter.

I have been doing a lot of soul-searching lately over pulling pole at 20 years. The CF took a major nose dive, and to be honest the only thing that kept me in after 10 years was the pension at 20. I was always hoping for things to get better.... but they didn't..... until lately. Once Gen Hillier became CDS, things started to seem to change. Sure, he's Armour Corps at heart, so he gets my vote on that. But once I saw the people that are "on board" and after the last 2 days of PD (professional development) and the peek I got behind the curtain of what's coming down the pike (presentations by the folks in Kingston and Ottawa ..... 5 years ago I probably would have vomitted over the "initiatives" that they had, but there is actually a 'vision'), I'm almost giddy with joy. Recruiting is changing, the direction the CF is taking (sorry boys in blue) which is more "green" than it has been, and I'm not talking hugging a tree, and the possibility of a soldier getting a chance to be a soldier, and not a peacekeeper, or whatever we have morphed into. The future seems so bright I have to wear issue dark-tinted ballistic eyewear....

The people in power are actually passionate about changing the run-down jalopy that we were on. Sure it got us from point A to point B, but it's time to trade 'er in for something decent. I think that a lot of the changes that real soldiers/sailors/airmen want (not 8 to 4 civvies-in-uniform) will happen, and people will actually want to come to work. I wish I could convince the guys that are getting out in the not to distant future that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't actually a train bearing down on us (as the last 10-15 years seemed to be). But, sometimes it's hard to believe that the changes that are being made won't be reversed by the next regime. Having said that, look at the crowd near the top, and the faces are somewhat boyish, but hard. Lordy, a fella might actually be able to say that he's a soldier to a civilian, and have that civilian actually look at him with admiration. Imagine that....

So, to answer your question (somewhat), it isn't always about money, and to be honest, I think that a mistake was to pay us too well. A lot of the dead wood we have wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the (relatively) easy money. Nobody ever joined the army to get rich, because you do it for other reasons. Giving people a lot of money, and dropping the standards (not neccesarily in that order), and not making them perform is a recipe for mediocrity. Give us a decent pay, reasonable benefits, good equipment, excellent training and experience, and that's all most soldier's would want. And believe it not, good leadership (Gen Hillier and his team) makes all the difference in the world. Anyone remember Gen Boyle? Gen de Chastelain? Gen Henault? There's probably a reason: they were not there for us when we needed them.

Am I a Gen Hillier cheerleader? Give me CADPAT pom-poms and I will line the parade route, and I will do my little cheer: Give me a Y! Give me a E! Give me a S! What does that spell? YES!!!

It only makes me wish it happened 10+ years ago....

Al
 
In my case, if there was a militia regiment near my town, I'd still be in.

And if there was legislation here like in other countries that protected reservists' civilian jobs when they were on operations, I'd volunteer for tour too.
 
Allan Luomala said:
Once Gen Hillier became CDS, things started to seem to change. Sure, he's Armour Corps at heart, so he gets my vote on that. But once I saw the people that are "on board" and after the last 2 days of PD (professional development) and the peek I got behind the curtain of what's coming down the pike (presentations by the folks in Kingston and Ottawa ..... 5 years ago I probably would have vomitted over the "initiatives" that they had, but there is actually a 'vision'), I'm almost giddy with joy.

After reading about your optimism Allan, I'm pretty giddy myself  :D

Are you at liberty to discuss what you've learned in greater detail, or should we simply take what you've already said for what it is, and hope to god you're speaking the inevitable!?
 
GO!!! said:
The guys that leave are usually bored. There has been nothing going on for the last couple of years, so they push brooms around the lines and play garatrooper for the NCOs. They they watch reservists get platoon tasks, and jammy goes like CIMIC. So they quit. Ironically, if you are not otherwise employed, you seem to have a better chance of being deployed as a reservist than as a reg f soldier.

A lot of Reservists left the Reserves for the same reason.  No chance to go anywhere or do anything.  Some joined the Reg F and, eventually, wound up in the situation you describe.

But, in the long run, you are right.  Nobody with a lick of fiscal sense joins the CF for money.  It's certainly not a draw in the Reserves either. 

Now to the question at hand:  What would keep me in?

a. another tour on the pointy end (no NSE for me);
b. a shyteload less paperwork on my desk;
c. JATF (If my warranty holds.  I'm too beat up for the Hill)
d. an athletic, thirtysomething strawberry blonde company clerk;

but mostly

e. concerte signs that CF Transformation will lead to a more effective CF with opportunites for the Army (Reg and Res) to do the job they're paid for and do it well.
 
Most people are not motivated by money. We are all reasonably well paid. People leave the Forces because of Quality of Life issues, lack of challenge and lack of respect.

The QOL is effected by the frequency of deployment to senseless missions. Happly we seem to be over those, I think most believe the missions we do now are important.

We sometime forget that people joined the army to be challenged. We should have our version of  Ranger course, Jump course, survival course, and gut checking, hard, challenging type course and every young soldier should be given the opportunity to try them on. Adventure training should really be an adventure. Somewhere in the 90s we forgot to have fun in the army. We need to bring that back.

I think the single biggest reason is that many soldiers feel that they and their opinions are not respected or being heard by the C of C. Just because a person is a Pte doesn't make his idea, immediately stupid. This is a leadership challenge. Sometimes when the situation allows, seek advise from subordinates, let them lead, give them the opportunities to make mistakes, get dirty and have fun.  :salute:
 
Chimo said:
I think the single biggest reason is that many soldiers feel that they and their opinions are not respected or being heard by the C of C. Just because a person is a Pte doesn't make his idea, immediately stupid. This is a leadership challenge. Sometimes when the situation allows, seek advise from subordinates, let them lead, give them the opportunities to make mistakes, get dirty and have fun.  :salute:

In parallel to this comment, a large issue that i know of first hand, is simply the respect due from other members of the Army. I had a close friend leave, simply because the shere disrespect and constant hounding from not 1, but many members, mostly Cpl's and MCpl.'s.

Its one thing to catch c*ck on course, but when it drags over into a unit day in, day out that it becomes a problem. Everybody has their breaking point, but why exploit it for no good reason?

im sure harassment could have been called, but then what? How can one stay in a unit after calling a junior NCO out for harassment, while everyone else just took it? Its much less of a hassle to simply up and look for something better, elsewhere. It may be the Army, but it is an Army comprised of human beings.

I guess they simply got sick of being muscled around for no good reason, other than the fact that it could be done for the sake of playing Army (little to no training value whatsoever).

My .02
 
I would think if nothing else... kit... lots of kit... new toys for over-grown little boys. I know it would keep me interested.
 
I think the single biggest reason is that many soldiers feel that they and their opinions are not respected or being heard by the C of C. Just because a person is a Pte doesn't make his idea, immediately stupid. This is a leadership challenge. Sometimes when the situation allows, seek advise from subordinates, let them lead, give them the opportunities to make mistakes, get dirty and have fun.  

Chimo, I have no doubt soldiers feel alienated in this big green machine but I don't agree with your comments about the C of C.  

The previous CLS publically endorsed the "Corporals' Report" as the type of thinking the institution should be encouraging, the Army Journal is available to anyone wanting ot publish a coherent paper (just ask a_majoor), RSMs keep there ears to the ground, and commanders at all levels conduct many "visits to the troops" to ensure communication is happening.  Moreover, if a soldier really wants to talk with someon, they have this website, run under the good graces of Mike Bobbitt.  It provides an opportunity to mix and interact with key members of various trades, ranks, etc.  

For every opinion a soldier may have, there is another soldier making a different recommendation (the load carrying vest ....).  The C of C is human and it will make mistakes but at the same time it has to look at the big picture and do what is best for the greater good.  

Cheers!
 
What would keep you in the army?
1) high standards, rigidly enforced.
2) more opportunities to develop a sore right shoulder.
3) hot chicks in CADPAT bikinis.
Any or all of the above.
 
I've been offered 72 virgins elsewhere, maybe if they uped the ante a little.

Oh yea, and start an old fat guy brigade......
 
paracowboy said:
1) high standards, rigidly enforced.
2) more opportunities to develop a sore right shoulder.
3) hot chicks in CADPAT bikinis.
Any or all of the above.
Will a camouflage thong do??
 
tykotyko said:
i'm up for that!  :salute:.
I don't wanna see that... para said hot, and women, and I assume you are neither hot nor female, lol.
 
Big Foot said:
I don't wanna see that... para said hot, and women, and I assume you are neither hot nor female, lol.
EEWWW!! Big Foot...you RMC guys!! I think he was talking about me in a camouflage thong!! Although I suppose your right...para did say hot, and I've always got cold feet so I guess I don't qualify!  >:D
 
armyvern said:
EEWWW!! Big Foot...you RMC guys!! I think he was talking about me in a camouflage thong!! Although I suppose your right...para did say hot, and I've always got cold feet so I guess I don't qualify!  >:D
Lol, I'm sorry vern, I just couldn't help myself there. It was too good of an opportunity to pass up... But if he was talking about you, I second that thought ;) Much more appealing than a guy in a camo thong, lol.
 
Big Foot said:
Lol, I'm sorry vern, I just couldn't help myself there. It was too good of an opportunity to pass up... But if he was talking about you, I second that thought ;) Much more appealing than a guy in a camo thong, lol.
You're just sucking up for some gortex aren't ya?? Keep working at it!! You may be swaying me!  ;)
 
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