Wearing an Ancestor's Medals Mega-thread

[Colin Parkinson]

Well I have had conversations with a number of them who told which medals were which, normally a series of campaign medals with a few bravery awards. I doubt many of them know the law or care.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Well, you know, I'm on the side of the law here.

Much has been made of the desire to wear relatives' medals on the right side, reserving the left side for medals personally earned.  Apparently, this is done in Australia and some other places.

However, most of the public have no idea which side means which.  All they see is a "veteran" festooned with medals - it isn't immediately apparent to an outsider that the medals on the right haven't been earned.

A case in point:  last year D9er pointed out a "veteran" weighed down with medals on the right side, but with nothing whatsoever on the left.  Of course, the medals on the right were Legion service gongs, with nothing to do with military service - but the impression created was one of a highly decorated former service member.

Medals should be worn by those who have earned them - it creates too much confusion otherwise.  If you've inherited a set, there are more appropriate ways to display your pride in your relative's service than by wearing them yourself.

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

my only concern with the display table idea is that some one might borrow them and never return them.
as for wearing them, that is a no no.
i am getting a shadow box done for my family medals and displaying them on the wall.
no flags just the medals and the name of the owner

 

[vonGarvin]

I see lots of Vets wearing medals on the right side that belonged to their dad and their medals on the left. Personally I think the wearing of the miniatures on the right on Nov 11th is a great idea as it shows a bond with what your family did, also shows the link between generations when you see a guy with his dad's medals and his.

Those are probably the legion medals you see them wearing on the right side.
As for miniatures: I don't know if they are covered in the Criminal Code.

 

[probum non poenitet]

Those are probably the legion medals you see them wearing on the right side.
As for miniatures: I don't know if they are covered in the Criminal Code.

I think a takedown of someone wearing illegal medals on a Legion Blazer would make for one hell of an episode of Cops. 
It would have to include a chase through a trailer park and someone with no shirt yelling at the camera. Throw in a Taser-ing and I'm buying the DVD.

 

[geo]

Those are probably the legion medals you see them wearing on the right side.
As for miniatures: I don't know if they are covered in the Criminal Code.

full sized or miniatures............. same thing..... same regulations.

 

[Aerobicrunner]

Military medals span generations
SOURCETAG  08121638110666
PUBLICATION:  The Ottawa Sun
DATE:  2008.12.16
EDITION:  Final
SECTION:  Editorial/Opinion
PAGE:  15
BYLINE:  PETER WORTHINGTON
WORD COUNT:  536

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Military medals span generations

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 1855 the Duke of Newcastle, then Britain's Secretary for War, suggested "a new (military) decoration open to all ranks."

He felt it was neither "right nor politic" that heroic deeds should go unrewarded, and noted: "The value attached by soldiers to a little piece of ribbon is such as to render any danger insignificant and any privation light if it can be attained." Thus was born the Victoria Cross.

Canada came late to the medals game. Until relatively recently we mostly awarded British medals, but all that has changed. Canada now issues over 100 different medals, most of them service rather than gallantry awards.

Our newest is the Sacrifice Medal, awarded to those killed or wounded in action in Afghanistan (but not for accidental deaths). Nor do those killed or wounded in pre-2001 peacekeeping missions qualify -- though DND is expected to review this eligibility.

Some veterans, such as Cliff Chadderton, chairman of the National Council of Veteran Associations (56 organizations) points out that in past wars a gold wound stripe on the uniform sleeve was all the soldier got. Those killed got nothing.

The question of medals can be divisive -- especially the proposal that soldiers in Afghanistan who serve "outside the wire" should get a medal different from those who serve in (relative) safety.

DECEASED VETERANS

Another issue is what should happen to the medals of a deceased veteran? I received a message the other day from Marilyn Lincoln of Kitchener, wondering if it was illegal to wear her late father's Second World War medals at ceremonies such as Remembrance Day.

She wanted to honour her dad; he was proud of his wartime service.

She consulted Dave Davidson, past-president of the Korean Veterans Association (KVA). Dave told her that in Britain, Australia, New Zealand a close relative of a deceased soldier could wear the medals on the right chest, but in Canada only those who earned the medals had the right to wear them.

This is true, but it's also dumb and dogmatic.

Veterans Affairs Canada (VAC) is adamant: "Medals may only be worn by the veteran. It is a criminal offence to wear military medals that someone else has earned."

"I would never break the law," Ms. Lincoln says, but feels it honours both country and soldiers if a relative wears medals on the right chest. She has written the Royal Canadian Legion and seeks input how veterans feel about relatives wearing their medals on commemorative occasions.

"My father left his medals in my care and made it very clear he wanted to be remembered as a soldier, even though he was a fire captain for 30 years with the Toronto Fire Department.," says Ms. Lincoln. "My dad would be very, very proud if this tradition (of wearing medals on the right chest) were passed on from generation to generation."

Davidson is inclined to agree, but VAC and DND are silent.

WEAR THEM

My advice to the indomitable Ms. Lincoln is to go ahead and wear her father's Second World War medals on her right chest next Remembrance Day. It's inconceivable that anyone would object. If they did -- what a story for the media!

It's not widely realized that Canada has become a prolific distributor of medals. Excluding the First World War, the Second World War and Korea, Canada now authorizes well over 100 campaign and other medals. With a year or two of service, a soldier can be entitled to a chest full of medals; many Second World War vets, after six years of war, had only five campaign medals.

Canada should immediately approve close relatives wearing a deceased veteran's medals on the right chest at appropriate occasions. To do otherwise dishonours those who served.

 

[geo]

FWIW, I think that wearing em on the right, on Remembrance day, is the way to go....

 

[Michael OLeary]

New Zealand Defence Force guidelines:

http://medals.nzdf.mil.nz/info/wearingmedals.html#family

Wearing of Medals by Family Members

Next-of-kin and other relatives of deceased servicemen and women have recently been authorised to wear their relative's medals on specific occasions and under certain circumstances. This applies to both military and civilian next-of-kin and other relatives of former New Zealand services personnel. Medals must be worn on the right breast rather than the left to differentiate between former servicemen and women and next-of-kin or other relatives. The wearing of a relative's medals is a matter of personal discretion and limited to days of remembrance. Only service medals and decorations mounted on a medal bar (full-size or miniature) can be worn by a relative; neck badges, sashes, sash badges, or breast stars cannot be worn. The occasions on which wearing of relatives medals is permitted are confined to ANZAC Day (25 April) and Remembrance Day (11 November). In addition, it may be appropriate for next-of-kin and other relatives to wear relative's medals on an occasion where either the relative's service or the unit in which they served is being commemorated.

Australian guidelines:

http://www.itsanhonour.gov.au/honours/awards/wearing.cfm

Awards made to next-of-kin

A custom has evolved for people to wear the awards of deceased family members when marching in their place at commemorative events such as Anzac Day and Remembrance Day. The Returned and Services League (RSL) encourages people to wear their forebears medals on the right breast, which indicates the awards are not their own

 

[dapaterson]

Not a DND / VAC isue.  A Criminal Code of Canada issue.  Talk to Stockwell Day.

 

[davidk]

There's a thread beating this topic to death - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/25589.0.html

Also, I'm trying to figure out how someone can earn "a full chest of medals" after a year or two - assuming he or she finishes BMQ, goes on to complete trade training, gets posted to a unit, does pre-deployment training and goes on tour, all within two years, the most you could be awarded would be (though I may have forgotten some) would include some medals that I don't think have been handed out together considering the nature of the tour:

Sacrifice medal
MMV/other valour decoration
Peacekeeping medal
UN tour/NATO tour medal

(Not trying to start a flame war by insinuating anything about peacekeeping missions)

 

[Michael OLeary]

Also, I'm trying to figure out how someone can earn "a full chest of medals" after a year or two -

Not earn - "can be entitled to" - sematics perhaps, but very different.  He's saying that that soldier could earn any one (or perhaps a few of) a large number of operational, UN or other medals, etc., but certainly not all of them together.

 

[mainerjohnthomas]

It was the hope of my Grandfather (Grenadier Guards WWII), that my father (UN service  Belgian Congo) would finally march in the parade for Remembrance Day when I was in the service.  The hope was that we could have all three generations of living servicemen marching together.  My father was left quite bitter about the way Canada treated those who fought when we were supposedly at peace, and had never marched in the parade, although never failing to attend.

My Grandfather contracted pneumonia, and succumbed to a heart attack before I spent my first November 11 back on this coast where we could march together.  If it had been permitted, I would have liked to have at least worn his medals (off side), so that when my father marched in the parade with me, all three generations of Mainer servicemen would have been in the parade, by token if not in fact.

Now that I am safely retired, whichever of my daughters assists me in laying the Heathen Freehold wreath at the cenotaph does so with my grandfathers medals pinned on her Girl Guide sash.  It is clear that she wears them to honour my grandfather, and all of those like him who are not there to answer the calling of the role.

 

[TCBF]

...

Now that I am safely retired, whichever of my daughters assists me in laying the Heathen Freehold wreath at the cenotaph does so with my grandfathers medals pinned on her Girl Guide sash.  It is clear that she wears them to honour my grandfather, and all of those like him who are not there to answer the calling of the role.

- In Canadian context, by law and tradition, decorations are worn ONLY by the persons to which they were awarded.  No other.  No right chest, shoulder backs or bums.  There are good and sound reasons for this. 

- I would, if in an official capacity to do so, frog-march ANYONE away from a cenotaph on Nov 11 if I knew them to be wearing medals they were not awarded.  I wold also lay a complaint under the Revised Statutes of Canada, whether in an official capacity or not.  Want to see medals on your daughter's chest? Send her off to the local CFRC, we can use more good people.

 

[Harley Sailor]

I for one wear my father's metals on my CF uniform all year round.  The day I recieved my CD he gave me his and I had it mounted instead of mine.  It is with great pride that I wear his metals.  It also helps that I have earned some of the same ones he did.  When my daughter gets her's I hope she will mount mine.

 

[aussiechangover]

personally for me wearing of ancestors medals for remembrance day should be allowed. as pointed out by Wes if you wear them in the correct position on the right to show respect for a deceased family member there shouldn't`t be a problem. on the other hand, wear them on the left when they are not yours then you should be able to be prosecuted by the law. the only reason i believe this is because of coming from Australia and marching in parades with the young kids who are wearing the medals of their family. it can be quite a humbling experience especially when they are carrying a picture and they are more than happy to tell you about them from a kids point of view.

 

[geo]

... Remember, it also motivates the young 'uns to learn about what they 'da or 'pa did in the war... helps develop their understanding of what war is all about.

I look at all the new legionaires who have a chestful of medals on their right side & see no reason why anyone would give someone grief for wearing family heirlooms on Rememberance day

IMHO!

 

[TCBF]

... Remember, it also motivates the young 'uns to learn about what they 'da or 'pa did in the war... helps develop their understanding of what war is all about.

I look at all the new legionaires who have a chestful of medals on their right side & see no reason why anyone would give someone grief for wearing family heirlooms on Rememberance day

IMHO!

- The right side medals are Legion medals, not military medals.  This has caused a lot of confusion over the years. 

- The Criminal Code was written by members of the generations of Canadians that lost 100,000 dead.  They know who should wear medals and who should not.

- Let's find another way to inculcate Remembrance in our youth, and if they want to wear medals, they can earn their own.

- I can see me arguing it now with some nitwit in the future: "My son wears his great-grandfather's medals to remind our family that we will never again serve.  Never Again! Haven't we sacrificed enough?"  - "No" I would reply, "You haven't. Get his ass into a uniform, where it belongs."

 

[Michael OLeary]

- The right side medals are Legion medals, not military medals.  This has caused a lot of confusion over the years. 

Yup, and the Legion hasn't done anything to ensure the public knows the difference.  Yet they will take legal action against someone who uses the poppy emblem.  How's that for a balanced approach to preserving the meaning of the emblems of service and sacrifice,

- The Criminal Code was written by members of the generations of Canadians that lost 100,000 dead.  They no who should where medals and who should not.

But that doesn't mean that laws can't change.  There's no reason why limited permissions to wear an ancestor's medals can't be allowed while reinforcing the illegality of wearing unearned medals to deceive others.

- Let's find another way to inculcate Remembrance in our youth, and if they want to wear medals, thay can earn their own.

Any suggestions?

- I can see me arguing it now with some nitwit in the future: "My son wears his great-grandfather's medals to remind our family that we will never again serve.  Never Again! Haven't we sacrificed enough?"  - "No" I would reply, "You haven't. Get his *** into a uniform, where it belongs."

Hmmmm, wasn't the original purpose of Remembrance Day to remember the sacrifices of the Great War in the hope that it would never be repeated?

And didn't that sacrifice made in defence of a democratic ideal also stand for the individual's right to choose whether or not they serve.  Let's leave the conscription debate for a different thread.

 

[gwp]

It is amazing that this topic keeps coming up.

In Great Britain -- the practice of wearing a deceased relatives medals is accepted  (not legislated)
In NZ and Aus -- the practice of wearing a deceased relatives medals is encouraged (by legislation) on Remembrance Day specifically
In Canada -- the practice of wearing a deceased relatives medals contravenes the Criminal Code

The matter was discussed thoroughly and quite recently when the House of Commons debated a private members bill in support of the practice.  The bill was defeated.  Amongst the loudest critics of the practice are veterans and veteran organizations. 

http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?pub=bill&doc=C-300&parl=37&ses=1&language=E&File=16

Search Criminal Code in this link to read some of the more recent debate -- pro and con

http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=2332221&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=36&Ses=2

For Canada, the discussion is done.   Mount the medals in a shadow box as a tribute to the relative.