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Veteran groups seek to influence the 2015 vote

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Occam, I have flopped my vote back and forth as required as well. You do not have the experience of the Trudeau Sr. years or the decades of economic disaster visited upon the western part of the country by Federal Liberals and provincial NDPs.

I do not greatly care how you personally vote. That is your business not mine. I very much care about Veterans and serving military being openly political and associating with the country's uniform. Reread my first post.

I also do not like the negative approach of attacking the ruling party wearing the uniform. Be positive and pick a party and support them but don't wear the uniform.

As an erstwhile public servant working for various provincial and federal governments with politicians of all political persuasions, it was considered extremely bad form to wear your politics on your sleeve. When the country or province was involved in an election it may even have had career implications.  When you drew your wages from the brand you rode for the brand. Probably the same in today's working environment.  Much the same as when your CO gives you direction you deliver it down as if it was your direction.
 
Jed said:
  When you drew your wages from the brand you rode for the brand.

I trust that by brand you mean "Government of Canada" and not "Conservative Party of Canada"?  One can disagree with the latter as long as loyalty to the former is maintained. 

I agree that serving members should not - ever- be at any partisan political event in uniform.

Harrigan
 
The brand is The Government of Canada  or the provincial government, definitely not a political party. As a civi you can do whatever you want on your own time but don't bring it into the work place.

By the old code, the Regular Military is a 24/7 type of job so that should pretty much take you out of overt party politics. Reservists have more leeway but not much more.

 
Occam said:
I was blocked from Erin O'Toole's Twitter feed within a day or so of him being appointed Minister of VAC.  Considering I hadn't interacted with him in over a year, I asked him via another means why I had been blocked.  His response?  He didn't know, and couldn't find my Twitter handle in his block list, so he recommended that I open a new Twitter account.  If he can't find my handle in his block list, I really have to wonder how large that list is...

Good question.  I wonder how many TROLLS, especially from movements like ABC, have been harassing him?  Civil and legitimate communications don't get one BLOCKED for a site.
 
Jed said:
The brand is The Government of Canada  or the provincial government, definitely not a political party. As a civi you can do whatever you want on your own time but don't bring it into the work place.

By the old code, the Regular Military is a 24/7 type of job so that should pretty much take you out of overt party politics. Reservists have more leeway but not much more.
I don't see why this code needs to be applied to retired vets.
 
Altair said:
I don't see why this code needs to be applied to retired vets.

The only vets it really applies to are those who are members of Vet organizations whose charters state that they will remain non-partisan when representing their organization (like wearing the uniform of that group).
 
Altair said:
I don't see why this code needs to be applied to retired vets.

It doesn't need to be applied to Vets. It is an unwritten code, a code of honour so to speak. To be self applied at ones own discretion.
 
This link describes ABC and this thread.... just replace Obama with Harper

http://www.wearethemighty.com/veteran-internet-arguments-2015-08
 
Bird_Gunner45 said:
This link describes ABC and this thread.... just replace Obama with Harper

http://www.wearethemighty.com/veteran-internet-arguments-2015-08

Priceless.  ;D
 
Bird_Gunner45 said:
This link describes ABC and this thread.... just replace Obama with Harper

http://www.wearethemighty.com/veteran-internet-arguments-2015-08

It also works extraordinarily well if you substitute "Obama" with "ABC" in para 4.  It's all a matter of perspective, right?
 
Bird_Gunner45 said:

Glad someone else came in first on that one.  That comment sure is giving a lot of credit to the ABC crowd.
 
Interesting if all the details are true ....
An email being circulated among former Canadian soldiers suggests federal Conservatives are looking for a few happy, satisfied veterans to appear in television ads backing the prime minister, The Canadian Press has learned.

The email appears to have been written by Kris Sims, who is on leave from her role as director of communications for Veterans Affairs Minister Erin O'Toole in order to work for the party during the campaign.

In it, she asks to be connected with ex-soldiers who are willing to appear on camera and prepared "to say in their own words why (Stephen) Harper is the best choice for Canada, based on their military experience and the threats we face in the world."

The email, a copy of which was obtained by The Canadian Press, goes on to say it is intended to counter Public Service Alliance of Canada ads that "say the NDP and Liberals are the best for Canadian Armed Forces Veterans."

Conservative party officials were asked about the email and shown its contents. Spokesman Stephen Lecce would say only the party doesn't comment on "campaign strategy." ....
So, is an NBC (Nothing But Conservatives) any more or less partisan than an ABC push?  Discuss  >:D
 
milnews.ca said:
Interesting if all the details are true ....So, is an NBC (Nothing But Conservatives) any more or less partisan than an ABC push?  Discuss  >:D
No less partisan, but more obvious in its source.
 
ModlrMike said:
No less partisan, but more obvious in its source.

Exactly.  Any advertisement would have the "paid for by..." caveat at the end (or bottom depending on the type of add).

Some in the ABC/CVA (at least one who has admitted to it anyway) have been paid by PSAC to attend protests and such, but you don't see PSAC admitting to it.  I don't think stuff like that would bother me so much if they also did adds and admitted they had a part in the funding.

Interesting though - PSAC is focusing on veterans and veteran issues, but the CPC add campaign is trying to get veterans to speak about why Harper is better based on their experience and "the threats we face in the world."

Same people, different message.
 
Slightly,  :eek:ff topic:  but related to the issue of "boundaries," this article, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail, shows what can happen when one tests the limits:

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/public-servant-investigated-over-political-harperman-song
crop_20562474919.jpg

Public servant investigated over political 'Harperman' song

KATHRYN MAY, OTTAWA CITIZEN

Published on: August 27, 2015

An Ottawa federal scientist is being investigated for breaching the public service’s ethics code for writing and performing a highly political protest song to get rid of the Harper government.

Tony Turner, a scientist in habitat planning at Environment Canada, was recently sent home on leave with pay while the government investigates the making of Harperman, a music video posted on YouTube in early June that has attracted about 48,000 hits.

Mark Johnson, a spokesman for Environment Canada, said the department wouldn’t be commenting on the case because of “privacy concerns.” He said public servants agree to comply with the value and ethics code — which lays out expected behaviours — when they join the government regardless of their level or job.

The Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada, which represents federal scientists, said the union was representing Turner. It said he was put on leave pending the outcome of the probe into allegations that he violated the ethics code by writing and performing a political protest song.

“We will stand up for its members who face the prospect of being disciplined for exercising their democratic rights as citizens. The Supreme Court of Canada has confirmed that public service workers, like all Canadian citizens, benefit from freedom of expression,” said PIPSC president Debi Daviau.

Turner has been a public servant for 19 years and is nearing retirement. He most recently was assigned to co-ordinate a project to map priority areas for migratory birds.

But he has also been a stalwart of the local folk music scene since 1994 when he joined Writers’ Bloc, Ottawa’s songwriters collective. He has several CDs, plays regularly across the province and is best known for the song Circle of Song, which will be included in a new anthology of Canadian folk songs. His biography makes no mention of being a public servant.

For Ottawa’s folk musicians, Turner’s situation is a fight for freedom of speech that has become tangled in the balance between political rights of public servants and their duty of loyalty to the government.

“Can’t we make jokes or say anything? Are we all muzzled? This is the politics of fear. I am an activist and singer but mostly I am a citizen and I care about democracy and freedom of speech,” said Diane McIntyre, who sang one of the verses in the video.

The song, with its chorus “Harperman, it’s time for you to go,” was recorded in a Westboro hall. The chorus is a call to dump Stephen Harper’s Conservative government, which even some public servants felt went too far.

“It’s always risky when a public servant criticizes someone in power,” said David Hackston, a former public servant who sings one of the verses. “It’s political and I can see why someone is upset with it, but that’s what protest songs are all about.”

The video began when Turner won a songwriting contest with Harperman and performed it at Gil’s Hootenanny, an annual May Day sing-along event where judges were looking for “songs of protest and songs of hope,” said organizer Hollis Morgan.

“I am chagrined that his employ would ever be a factor in his private outputs,” said Morgan. “He never discussed his employ, and in my world Tony Turner is a singer-songwriter,” said Morgan.

Turner’s win snowballed into a project led by Chris White, longtime artistic director of the Ottawa Folk Festival. He decided to record the song and use it to launch a national singalong on Sept. 17. The plan was to get as many Canadians as possible singing it online or adding their own verses.

White said he put out a call to gather local musicians and singers. About 50 showed up, most having never heard the song. They practiced a few times and then recorded the song, which was posted on YouTube.

In the meantime, White set up a Harperman website with T-shirts, bumper stickers and other paraphernalia and launched a crowd-funding drive to help organize the Sept. 17 singalong.

He said the fundraising has been stopped but the singalong is going ahead as planned whether Turner attends to perform his song or not. It’s unclear if Turner breaches the ethics code if others sing his song.

“This is an issue of freedom of expression, and who is the government to tell Tony what he can do on his own time when expressing himself in music and song?” said White.

Donald Savoie, a political scientist at the University of Moncton, said the song crosses the line of behaviour expected of public servants. He questioned Turner’s judgment in publicly performing it and the department’s for investigating it and bringing even more attention to the video.

“The government risks giving this much more visibility than it warrants by launching an investigation. People will be on YouTube to look at this because they made it an issue.”


When you "take the king's shilling" and all that ...
Tavern+Kings+shilling.jpg
 
E.R. Campbell said:
Slightly,  :eek:ff topic:  but related to the issue of "boundaries," this article, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail, shows what can happen when one tests the limits:

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/public-servant-investigated-over-political-harperman-song

When you "take the king's shilling" and all that ...
Tavern+Kings+shilling.jpg

But there is a difference between "taking the king's shilling" and getting a job as "a scientist in habitat planning at Environment Canada".  Those of us who have served and (especially) those still serving should be well versed in the military rules and regulations governing political activity.  I was less informed about the rules governing public servants.  Therefore, it was necessary to look up what they "actually" say.  (Something I also noticed during my military service was that there was sometimes a difference between what someone (usually in a position of minor authority) "thought" the orders and regulations said and what they actually said.)  As Mr. Johnson, the Environment Canada spokesman, is quoted as referring to "the value and ethics code" being the governing document, I was interested in what specifically it says about political activities. http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pol/doc-eng.aspx?id=25049  There was no mention of political activities in that document.  However, what the law, in the form of the Public Service Employment Act says is:
Permitted activities

113. (1) An employee may engage in any political activity so long as it does not impair, or is not perceived as impairing, the employee’s ability to perform his or her duties in a politically impartial manner.

Of course like all (most?) Canadian laws the Governor in Council may make regulations in application of the law.  They have in this case, but the PSC has also condensed the legalese into a readily available Guidance Document for Participating in Non-Candidacy Political Activities.  I accept that Mr. Turner's "performance" (though not the composition) falls under non-candidacy political activities.

Definition of a non-candidacy political activity

The PSEA defines a non-candidacy “political activity” as:
•Any activity in support of, within or in opposition to, a political party; or
•Any activity in support of, or in opposition to, a candidate before or during an election period.

Activities that do not fall under the definition of a political activity in the PSEA, such as speaking out in the media supporting an advocacy group, should be considered in light of the Values and Ethics Code for the Public Sector and the code of conduct of employees' organizations.

Since any judgement of Mr. Turner's egregious activity should be made after viewing the offending performance, it can be found here.  I will admit to being fond of folksongs, including the many that could be labeled the protest variety from the 1960s (hey, it was part of the music of my youth).  This particular performance seems to include mostly those who are of that same (or earlier) generation.
 
Harrigan said:
I trust that by brand you mean "Government of Canada" and not "Conservative Party of Canada"?  One can disagree with the latter as long as loyalty to the former is maintained.

Again, where is it stated that we owe any loyalty to the government of Canada?

We do not.

We swear an oath or make a solemn affirmation to Her Royal Majesty.
 
Loachman said:
Again, where is it stated that we owe any loyalty to the government of Canada?

We do not.

We swear an oath or make a solemn affirmation to Her Royal Majesty.

You are picking flysh!t out of pepper.
 
Offered without commentary from myself...

From http://www.veteransagainstconservatives.com/updates

Press Release - August 28, 2015

Conservative supporters reject Harper government over veterans’ cuts

Ottawa — Stephen Harper’s poor treatment of Canadian military veterans could cost him the continued support of voters who cast a ballot for the Conservatives in the last federal election, according to a national poll released today.

The Insights West poll showed that approximately one-third of respondents who said they voted Conservative in 2011 now believe Harper’s failure to support veterans is one reason to defeat his party on Oct. 19.

In addition, more than two-thirds of Conservative voters are now critical of the Harper government over its handling of veterans’ issues, according to the poll of 1,006 Canadians.

The poll found that 65 per cent of those who voted Conservative in 2011 are dissatisfied with the performance of the federal government when it comes to treating injured Canadian war veterans (25 per cent “very dissatisfied,” 39 per cent “moderately dissatisfied”).

Only 23 per cent of Conservative voters from 2011 are satisfied with the way the federal government is handling this file.

Responses from all Canadians surveyed showed that 73 per cent are dissatisfied with the federal government’s treatment of injured veterans, while only 13 per cent are satisfied. In Atlantic Canada and British Columbia, satisfaction with how the government has handled this file is in single digits (nine per cent and 7 per cent respectively).

Canadians aged 55 and over are more likely to express dissatisfaction with the performance of the federal government when it comes to treating injured Canadian war veterans (77 per cent) than those aged 35-54 (74 per cent) and those aged 18-34 (67 per cent).

The poll also indicated that, when asked if “failing to support Canadian war veterans is one reason to defeat Prime Minister Stephen Harper and the Conservatives in this year’s federal election,” a majority of Canadians (55 per cent) agreed while one-third disagreed. This perception is shared by a majority of residents in every region, except Alberta. Critical to the re-election bid by Harper is the finding that 33 per cent of Conservative voters appear ready to vote against the government based on his treatment of veterans.

A separate question gauged whether voters would be willing to vote “for the candidate of whichever party has the best chance of defeating the Conservatives in my riding to ensure that Canadian war veterans get the help they deserve.” Across the country, 42 per cent of respondents agree with this statement, while 44 per cent disagreed.

The “strategic voters” who will be thinking about Canadian war veterans as they ponder their options include 58 per cent of Atlantic Canadians, 45 per cent of Quebecers and 41 per cent of both Ontarians and British Columbians.

Most Canadians who voted for the Liberal Party (68 per cent) or the New Democratic Party (NDP) (58 per cent) in 2011 welcome the idea, as do 21 per cent of Conservative voters.

“There is a minuscule proportion of Canadians who are satisfied with the way the federal government is treating injured Canadian war veterans, and the large group that is decidedly critical of the way this file has been handled includes two-thirds of those who voted for the Conservative Party in 2011,” says Mario Canseco, Vice President, Public Affairs, at Insights West.

“We also see that many Canadians believe that the government’s poor performance on supporting Canadian war veterans is a reason to stay away from the Conservatives and vote for other parties in this year’s election,” Canseco added.

The poll was conducted on behalf of the Anyone But Conservatives – Canadian Veterans Campaign 2015.

“This poll reaffirms our belief that Canadians are fully aware of how badly the Conservative government has treated veterans and more importantly, the group includes a majority of Conservative voters,” said Tom Beaver, ABC campaign spokesperson. “More importantly, nearly one-third of those who voted Conservative last time think the poor treatment is a reason to defeat the government in this election.”

About this Release:

Results are based on an online study conducted by Insights West from August 19 to August 21, 2015, among 1,006 adult Canadians. The data has been statistically weighted according to Canadian census figures for age, gender and region. The margin of error—which measures sample variability—is +/- 3.1 percentage points.

Insights West Contact: Mario Canseco

Phone: 778 929 0490

Media contact information:

Phone: 778-683-0395

Email: ABCVeterans2015@gmail.com

Authorized by Canadian Veterans ABC Campaign 2015
 
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