use of cadet ranks
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Spartan said:
And somehow Gunner doesn't offend but private does....
The program has been gutted over the past few years and replaced. It no longer looks like army cadets and infact wanted to move towards "adventurist expedition esque training vice "Army".
The old style army cadets of the 80's-90's is no longer the case. It is a neutered program and not what most parents remember.
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dogger1936 said:
I referenced QR (Cadets) Table to Article 7.15 which was supported by Pusser's post of QR (Cadets) Article 4.11 which in both, support my statement of "Cadet" and "Cdt." prefixes when addressing cadet ranks in document (or at any time really).
I said "I don't know if there's reference" and simply made note that I have 6yrs worth of documentation, both official and unofficial, with prefixes as above. Then, I proceeded to delve into the sea of PAMs and found a QR (Cadets) that is applicable and referenced it here. Later, another poster also confirmed my research (albeit with a different article) using QR (Cadets).
But hey, if you feel it's opinion, whatever floats your boat.
Note: Not claiming credit for anything.
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Ok let me break this right down for you.
CIC out at the corp level are getting 4 half days pay as month to run a youth program. Each CIC captain at Det level are making a tough living on in $76 357. That alone should provide a reason for CIC's at det's should feel the need to HELP the corps.
CIC at corp levels deserve answers. "I don't know if there's reference." Is considered an answer within the CIC and promotes nothing but incorrect information half the time.
Every Capt "working" at Det level is pulling in near 80 grand a year. They owe the CO's in the communities answers. There seems to be a disconnect at det level where they forget without the corp CO's working their butts off there would be no youth in the program and they would be out of a very well paying job.
CIC out at the corp level are getting 4 half days pay as month to run a youth program. Each CIC captain at Det level are making a tough living on in $76 357. That alone should provide a reason for CIC's at det's should feel the need to HELP the corps.
CIC at corp levels deserve answers. "I don't know if there's reference." Is considered an answer within the CIC and promotes nothing but incorrect information half the time.
Every Capt "working" at Det level is pulling in near 80 grand a year. They owe the CO's in the communities answers. There seems to be a disconnect at det level where they forget without the corp CO's working their butts off there would be no youth in the program and they would be out of a very well paying job.
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my72jeep said:
I know brother!
Having personally known a couple of the "writing board" who developed this million dollar new project; it doesn't surprise me that it's SNAFU. Instead of trialing it at a unit or two they pushed this new course down to the corp level (albeit without the thought that corps need the equipment to facilitate the new program). I have heard nothing but complaints about the program at corp level and nothing but praise about it at the det.
It has officially sucked any interesting "army" type things out of the program that these kid's are joining for.
There are only two corps here that are doing excellent. Funny thing was I was warned about these corps with laughs and eye rolls at the det before conducting my SAV there. I could give their staff and kids nothing but praise when I seen them. I wrote up an excellent report putting them number 1 in the province....however the det commander doesnt bother to fill in his portion of the SAV report so nothing get's passed on anyway....making the ACA job moot anyway.
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ObedientiaZelum said:
We have Capt's here who aside from their 30 or so days (total) training have no education to speak of. They are buddies with the B class clique and will retire on a Capt's pension moving from job to job in the det and maybe finishing off their careers at regional level retiring as a Maj.
The overhead in this program is staggering.
CIC shouldn't be retiring with a Canadian forces pension higher than that of regular force members regardless of rank. CIC in the communities would never accumulate enough pensionable time due to paid days; however there are many people making a full time career off the CIC. Many people are not aware of that.
Northalbertan
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Hey, I fully expect my reserve force pension to cover the cost of my cigarettes, or maybe a case of beer per month. We are way off topic here though and perhaps this discussion should take place in another thread.
Northalbertan
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First, I'm aware that this thread fizzled out ages ago. However, I feel as though I have an obligation to reply because the posts were tainted with misinformation and nefarious generalizations. I'm sure I won't win this war, but I feel obligated to at least reply.
CIC at corps level are paid up to 25 days per year (the CO up to 35) [Ref: CATO 21-03]. So that's roughly 2.5 (3.5) days per month. Additional pay for attending courses, regionally-directed activities, CSTC work, or "specialist" days for work with other units are extra. As people may be aware, officers often work well above their 25 days in a volunteer capacity (such as supervising cadets during the Legion's poppy campaign, coaching marksmanship teams and drill teams, band, etc.).
CIC at Det-level are paid the same as any other Capt on Class B. Many full-time Det and HQ staff are actually helpful at the corps level. They don't just plop in anyone to most of these jobs; these people have experience working within the CCO. There are some derps/derpinas here and there, just like in any organization with internal politics.
No, that's not considered acceptable "within the CIC". That's called laziness, and it's rampant everywhere in society.
The majority of CIC officers whom I work with at the corps level and CSTC have completed post-secondary education or are currently pursuing it. Many of the CIC officers I know work as teachers, police officers, nurses, adult and youth corrections officers, engineers, and IT programmers. I'm not just spouting that off as the politically correct response, it's true. There certainly some who are factory workers or labourers too, but they often have experience as a cadet, parent, or other related youth work experience. The notion that most CIC do not have any education is false, but is perpetuated by the occasional goober who doesn't know what he or she knows and doesn't know. The CIC has a fair share of "late joiners" who enroll, but most those I know are in their 40s and have lots of work and family experience that make them valuable to the program, often after volunteering for quite some time.
If the CAF were to provide all CIC officers with the same training as PRes an infantry officer, it would simply be wasteful. The 30 (or so) days of training readies the person to take on additional, informal, on-the-job training with cadets. They don't just take people off the street and make them a Capt and send them to Det. In order to get these full-time jobs you compete with others who have many years experience working with various parts of the program.
You're right that the pension is out of reach at the corps level (without CSTC employment). But is this not the same for most PRes members?
The question about whether people know about the full-time career types is interesting. There are politics and cliques within every organization, and I've heard many stories from PRes friends about the politics within their own units. Within the CIC, I would say most are aware that these types exist. Many of the people working full-time do it for the right reasons and aren't just there to collect their paycheque, but of course that is a generalization. There's dead weight in every organization.
dogger1936 said:
CIC at corps level are paid up to 25 days per year (the CO up to 35) [Ref: CATO 21-03]. So that's roughly 2.5 (3.5) days per month. Additional pay for attending courses, regionally-directed activities, CSTC work, or "specialist" days for work with other units are extra. As people may be aware, officers often work well above their 25 days in a volunteer capacity (such as supervising cadets during the Legion's poppy campaign, coaching marksmanship teams and drill teams, band, etc.).
CIC at Det-level are paid the same as any other Capt on Class B. Many full-time Det and HQ staff are actually helpful at the corps level. They don't just plop in anyone to most of these jobs; these people have experience working within the CCO. There are some derps/derpinas here and there, just like in any organization with internal politics.
dogger1936 said:
No, that's not considered acceptable "within the CIC". That's called laziness, and it's rampant everywhere in society.
dogger1936 said:
The majority of CIC officers whom I work with at the corps level and CSTC have completed post-secondary education or are currently pursuing it. Many of the CIC officers I know work as teachers, police officers, nurses, adult and youth corrections officers, engineers, and IT programmers. I'm not just spouting that off as the politically correct response, it's true. There certainly some who are factory workers or labourers too, but they often have experience as a cadet, parent, or other related youth work experience. The notion that most CIC do not have any education is false, but is perpetuated by the occasional goober who doesn't know what he or she knows and doesn't know. The CIC has a fair share of "late joiners" who enroll, but most those I know are in their 40s and have lots of work and family experience that make them valuable to the program, often after volunteering for quite some time.
If the CAF were to provide all CIC officers with the same training as PRes an infantry officer, it would simply be wasteful. The 30 (or so) days of training readies the person to take on additional, informal, on-the-job training with cadets. They don't just take people off the street and make them a Capt and send them to Det. In order to get these full-time jobs you compete with others who have many years experience working with various parts of the program.
You're right that the pension is out of reach at the corps level (without CSTC employment). But is this not the same for most PRes members?
The question about whether people know about the full-time career types is interesting. There are politics and cliques within every organization, and I've heard many stories from PRes friends about the politics within their own units. Within the CIC, I would say most are aware that these types exist. Many of the people working full-time do it for the right reasons and aren't just there to collect their paycheque, but of course that is a generalization. There's dead weight in every organization.
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