use of cadet ranks

[bLUE fOX]

Hey All,

I was wondering if anyone here knows the official policy (with referances) for the use of cadet ranks in official documents? I was under the notion that all cadet ranks are to be prefaced with Cdt. I am being told this is incorrect, but want i want to be safe. Any help that you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

 

[JorgSlice]

Start the document with "Cadet Sergeant" for example, and then in the body of the letter/document you can abbreviate it down to C/Sergeant or C/Sgt.

 

[bLUE fOX]

Do you have a reference for this at all?
Thank you

 

[JorgSlice]

Not sure if there's a reference but I have 6 years worth of documents and reference letters and certificates all printed with "Cadet Corporal/Warrant Officer/RSM" etc.

 

[George Wallace]

Get the manual on Military Writing.  It will explain when and how to use titles and salutations, how to format paragraphs, etc.

 

[dogger1936]

Do you have a reference for this at all?
Thank you

that right there made me shed a tear. This here above is what ALL CIC officers should be doing. Reference or it isnt real.

Not sure if there's a reference but I have 6 years worth of documents and reference letters and certificates all printed with "Cadet Corporal/Warrant Officer/RSM" etc.

This above is an opinion and nothing else until a reference is found or written.

Thank you Bluefox;  this made my night.

Keep it up; your youth program needs more of it.

 

[aesop081]

Get the manual on Military Writing.  It will explain when and how to use titles and salutations, how to format paragraphs, etc.

There is no longer such manual.

 

[George Wallace]

There is no longer such manual.

Tell that to the people down in Borden

 

[aesop081]

Tell that to the people down in Borden

They should know. CFP 121 died an inglorious death quite some time ago. The CFSAL QL6A aide-memoire i use references it, however.

 

[bLUE fOX]

Dogger: I appreciate the sentiment, but it's a cya thing. Nothing I hate more then saying something's right, and then finding out I'm actually an idiot.

George Wallace: I think Cdn Aviator is right. The closest I could find to this manual was the Resource Management Support Clerk Apprentice Training Military Writing Guide. Although this is an excellent resource, it does not at all give a list of titles or abbreviations, but instead refers to the Canadian Forces Manual of Abbreviations. The only reference to the use of the word "cadet" in ranks in that manual is for officer and naval cadets.

Presently I am at Penhold ACSTC, and the Admin O I deal with here is both new, and is uncertain if we have any of those manuals kicking about the office, and at previous cadet units I've paraded with, it's never really been a concern, but now that I interact daily with cadet and actual warrant officers, i feel it's important to make that distinction in any of my writing.

Thank you all for your input.

Cheers

 

[aesop081]

I think Cdn Aviator is right. 

I am.

 

[JorgSlice]

that right there made me shed a tear. This here above is what ALL CIC officers should be doing. Reference or it isnt real.

This above is an opinion and nothing else until a reference is found or written.

Thank you Bluefox;  this made my night.

Keep it up; your youth program needs more of it.

Opinion how? I said "I don't know if there is a reference" and you'd think it was common sense, that when putting together documents relating to the world of Cadets, you'd distinguish full-CF members and cadets by the prefix "Cadet", "Cdt." or "C/". Documents going to the outside would generally just use the name of cadet with prefix "Mr./Ms."

QR (Cadets) - Table to Article 7.15 sure seems to outline this. But I could be wrong.

 

[Pusser]

An old copy of QR (Cadets) seen at http://airdriecadets.com/docs/Supplemental%20References/QR%20(Cadets)%20Complete%5B1%5D.pdf, says the following:

4.11 - CADET RANKS
The ranks to which cadets may be appointed are:

(a) Sea Cadets

Chief Petty Officer Cadet, 1st Class
Chief Petty Officer Cadet, 2nd Class
Petty Officer Cadet, 1st Class
Petty Officer Cadet, 2nd Class
Leading Cadet
Able Cadet
Ordinary Cadet

(b) Army Cadets

Cadet Chief Warrant Officer
Cadet Master Warrant Officer
Cadet Warrant Officer
Cadet Sergeant
Cadet Master Corporal
Cadet Corporal
Cadet Lance Corporal
Cadet

(c) Air Cadets

Cadet Warrant Officer. Class 1
Cadet Warrant Officer, Class 2
Cadet Flight Sergeant
Cadet Sergeant
Cadet Corporal
Leading Air Cadet
Air Cadet. (1 9 Jun 85)

Yes, I'm aware that this is outdated and that some ranks have in fact changed and others have been added.  However, this likely answers the OP's actual question and a quick look at a current copy of QR(Cadets) 4.11 will confirm it.

 

[George Wallace]

They should know. CFP 121 died an inglorious death quite some time ago. The CFSAL QL6A aide-memoire i use references it, however.

Interesting that they publish the "Coles Notes" handouts "Canadian Forces School of Administration and Logistics, Resource Management Support Clerk Apprentice Training, Military Writing Guide" using as a Reference: A-AD-121-CO/FP-000 Staff and Writing Procedures.  Last ammended 2008-10-23.

:-\

 

[dogger1936]

Opinion how? I said "I don't know if there is a reference" and you'd think it was common sense, that when putting together documents relating to the world of Cadets, you'd distinguish full-CF members and cadets by the prefix "Cadet", "Cdt." or "C/". Documents going to the outside would generally just use the name of cadet with prefix "Mr./Ms."

QR (Cadets) - Table to Article 7.15 sure seems to outline this. But I could be wrong.

When asked a question and a response is "thats how we always did it" doesnt make something correct. Using terms such as " I seen it done this way" is nothing more than opinion.

When a question is posed in the Cadet organisation many times people use examples as you did to validate something. It's nothing more than your opinion on how things are suppose to be.

An answer to factual direction such as what Pusser posted is an answer.

It's good to see CIC questioning stuff and looking for answers. Not personal opinions.

 

[Strike]

An old copy of QR (Cadets) seen at http://airdriecadets.com/docs/Supplemental%20References/QR%20(Cadets)%20Complete%5B1%5D.pdf, says the following:

4.11 - CADET RANKS
The ranks to which cadets may be appointed are:

(a) Sea Cadets

Chief Petty Officer Cadet, 1st Class
Chief Petty Officer Cadet, 2nd Class
Petty Officer Cadet, 1st Class
Petty Officer Cadet, 2nd Class
Leading Cadet
Able Cadet
Ordinary Cadet

(b) Army Cadets

Cadet Chief Warrant Officer
Cadet Master Warrant Officer
Cadet Warrant Officer
Cadet Sergeant
Cadet Master Corporal
Cadet Corporal
Cadet Lance Corporal
Cadet

(c) Air Cadets

Cadet Warrant Officer. Class 1
Cadet Warrant Officer, Class 2
Cadet Flight Sergeant
Cadet Sergeant
Cadet Corporal
Leading Air Cadet
Air Cadet. (1 9 Jun 85)

Yes, I'm aware that this is outdated and that some ranks have in fact changed and others have been added.  However, this likely answers the OP's actual question and a quick look at a current copy of QR(Cadets) 4.11 will confirm it.

As Pusser's reference may be out of date, here is something to add on to it:

http://www.termiumplus.gc.ca/tcdnstyl-chap?lang=eng&lettr=chapsect1&info0=1.07

It is the reference to Canadian Writing Style used by media regarding abbreviations.  The abbreviation of Officer Cadet, in DND writing, is OCdt, so one can infer that the abbreviation for Cadet when dealing with cadet ranks (be they before or after the rank) would be Cdt.

Hope thins helps.

 

[George Wallace]

As Pusser's reference may be out of date, here is something to add on to it:

http://www.termiumplus.gc.ca/tcdnstyl-chap?lang=eng&lettr=chapsect1&info0=1.07

It is the reference to Canadian Writing Style used by media regarding abbreviations.  The abbreviation of Officer Cadet, in DND writing, is OCdt, so one can infer that the abbreviation for Cadet when dealing with cadet ranks (be they before or after the rank) would be Cdt.

Hope thins helps.

According to your link, Officer Cadet would not be abbreviated if used in "non-DND writing".

If you go to MANUAL OF ABBREVIATIONS, A-AD-121-F01/JX-000 you will find that the abbreviation for Cadet is indeed cdt. 

 

[aesop081]

Interesting that they publish the "Coles Notes" handouts "Canadian Forces School of Administration and Logistics, Resource Management Support Clerk Apprentice Training, Military Writing Guide" using as a Reference: A-AD-121-CO/FP-000 Staff and Writing Procedures.  Last ammended 2008-10-23.

:-\

Yes, i know. I mentioned that already.

I do a metric shyte ton of writing at work. All i go by is the CFSAL A-M as CFP-121 "Staff and Writing Procedures" is dead.

On a related note, the Feb 2012 version of the CFSAL "cole's notes" sucks compared to the previous version.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Sidebar

is it true that the rank of private was removed from the cadet rank structure because it was too "military like"?

 

[dogger1936]

Sidebar

is it true that the rank of private was removed from the cadet rank structure because it was too "military like"?

Yup.
CHANGES TO CADET RANK

The following Bulletin is sent on behalf of LCol Christian Bergeron, D Cdts 4 (Program Delivery) and Senior Staff Officer - Army Cadets, Directorate of Cadets and Junior Canadian Rangers

Greetings;

Over the past months, discussions took place to consider a change of designation for the rank of soldat/private used by Army Cadets. The argument for this change was brought forward by Eastern Region because the word soldat carries a significance which, in English, would mean SOLDIER. Given that we are trying to avoid situations where cadets might be perceived to be soldiers, a decision was made to consult all regions about a potential change of designation in both French and English. The feedback received for the change of the French version was unanimous in support. The feedback received in support of the English version was not unanimous for or against.

As SSO Army cadets, I am announcing that the CATO 13-02 Cadets promotions will be amended to read that the ranks of soldat/private will now become the ranks of lance-caporal/Lance Corporal. This decision will be effective in September 09 when the new training season starts. CATO 13-02 will be amended in the near future.

• Lance-Corporal becomes the official Army Cadet rank.

The following denominations will be considered acceptable at the corps level:

• Sapper, in observance to the historical and regimental significance the Engineer Branch of the Cdn Army;
• Trooper, in observance to the historical and regimental significance the Armoured Branch of the Cdn Army;
• Gunner, in observance to the historical and regimental significance the Artillery Branch of the Cdn Army;
• Guardsman, in observance to the historical and regimental significance Guards Regts of the Cdn Army;
• Highlander, in observance to the historical and regimental significance Highland Regts of the Cdn Army;
• Any other nomenclature used as Canadian Forces customs and traditions may dictate;
• The rank of Private can still be used in observance to the historical affiliation with the Canadian Army.


Edit to add: CATO 13-02 has been changed