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US vs Canada

a_majoor

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ModlrMike said:
That could have happened with decriminalization. This is about taxation period. If it was truly about harm reduction, and reducing the social burden, then that's what the conversation would be about. It's not - the government has almost excursively focused on tax.

The problem is actually worse than that. Instead of harm reduction, we do things like needle exchanges which essentially incentiveise the things we claim to want to reduce.

We look the other way and ignore what is actually harmful or deleterious to people's welfare. Stepping over addicts sleeping on the streets of Victoria while passing literally a dozen "Medicinal Marijuana" outlets (with badly painted hand made signs) on my way to visit my daughter in 2016 certainly drove the point home (I also remember seeing East Vancouver back in the late 80's, and my home town of London seems to have more and more visible addicts of all kinds roaming the streets as well).

Of course, as my wife points out, we have eliminated the ability to take these sorts of people off the streets and institutionalize them regardless of their problems or underlying issues (I believe a large number also suffer from mental health issues, which street drugs are hardly helping).
 

Altair

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daftandbarmy said:
Then they shouldn't break the law. Simples.  :nod:
very simple.

And now they have voted for a party who legalized their vice of choice so they will no longer break the law.

All is good.
 

Jarnhamar

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Yup. Everyone has priorities. Voting Liberal just because of pot is even less foresighted then voting Conservative just because of guns.

I'm not looking forward to the crying when the Liberal pot promise doesn't deliver exactly what people were expecting.

That said I'm curious how the US will spin this in their favor. Accusations of increased pot smuggling to the US I suspect at the least.
 

SeaKingTacco

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Jarnhamar said:
Yup. Everyone has priorities. Voting Liberal just because of pot is even less foresighted then voting Conservative just because of guns.

I'm not looking forward to the crying when the Liberal pot promise doesn't deliver exactly what people were expecting.

That said I'm curious how the US will spin this in their favor. Accusations of increased pot smuggling to the US I suspect at the least.

I am curious about how many Canadians will suddenly scream bloody murder when they find they are no longer admissible to the US, once the USBP starts asking them about their (legal in Canada, but not the US) pot usage...
 

Good2Golf

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SeaKingTacco said:
I am curious about how many Canadians will suddenly scream bloody murder when they find they are no longer admissible to the US, once the USBP starts asking them about their (legal in Canada, but not the US) pot usage...

They could fly direct to Nevada (and eight other states) where it's legal, I suppose. :dunno:
 

Remius

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SeaKingTacco said:
I am curious about how many Canadians will suddenly scream bloody murder when they find they are no longer admissible to the US, once the USBP starts asking them about their (legal in Canada, but not the US) pot usage...

Depending on the numbers that might not be for long.  Many sectors and areas in the US enjoy Canadian spenders...

1 in 7 Canadians say they've used pot.  That number will rise.

There was 42 million visits in 2017.  6 million could be denied entry assuming pot users travel at the same frequency as the rest of the population.

If denying Canadians entry starts affect certain areas of the US economy you can bet that there will be some pressure to have exemptions and what not.

Mostly though I bet most people will just lie like they do now. 
 

ModlrMike

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It's not just the US. There are a number of other countries that have strict drugs use policies for travelers, such as Japan and Australia. Pot may become law, but it's the law of unintended consequences that needs to be paid attention to.
 

Remius

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ModlrMike said:
It's not just the US. There are a number of other countries that have strict drugs use policies for travelers, such as Japan and Australia. Pot may become law, but it's the law of unintended consequences that needs to be paid attention to.

For sure.  But I doubt that Canada accounts for a third of their foreign tourist industry like the it does in the US.

Fun fact: Canadian visits to the US are up.
 

Altair

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Jarnhamar said:
Yup. Everyone has priorities. Voting Liberal just because of pot is even less foresighted then voting Conservative just because of guns.

I'm not looking forward to the crying when the Liberal pot promise doesn't deliver exactly what people were expecting.

That said I'm curious how the US will spin this in their favor. Accusations of increased pot smuggling to the US I suspect at the least.
Some wont like it, most will be happy to grow some at home or buy it legally, knowing what they are getting is safe and regulated.

And while I'm sure the Americans will try to spin it in some way, I hope Canadian officials simply ask them about Colorado.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/05/13/when-smuggling-colo-pot-not-even-skys-limit/83623226/

Gorman’s task force says investigators in 2014 made 360 seizures of Colorado marijuana destined for other states, a nearly 600% increase in the number of individual stops in a decade, seizing about 3,671 pounds in 2014. But those seizure reports are only from statewide agencies, not smaller police departments that also make seizures during traffic stops. Of the 360 seizures reported in 2014, 36 different states were identified as destinations, the most common being Kansas, Missouri, Illinois, Oklahoma and Florida.
SeaKingTacco said:
I am curious about how many Canadians will suddenly scream bloody murder when they find they are no longer admissible to the US, once the USBP starts asking them about their (legal in Canada, but not the US) pot usage...
I imagine people will do the same as now, simply say they don't do it.

I'm not sure why a bunch of things are going to change now that pot is legal.
 

Jarnhamar

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Remius said:
Fun fact: Canadian visits to the US are up.
That doesn't make sense, the US is such a horrible place. And what about #BoycottUSA?

Altair said:
And while I'm sure the Americans will try to spin it in some way, I hope Canadian officials simply ask them about Colorado.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/05/13/when-smuggling-colo-pot-not-even-skys-limit/83623226/
Article is a good example. When our government brags (as they're apt to do) about decriminalizing pot or whatever, maybe the US will respond by deciding to beef up border security and give Canadians extra screening.
 

Remius

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Jarnhamar said:
That doesn't make sense, the US is such a horrible place. And what about #BoycottUSA?
Article is a good example. When our government brags (as they're apt to do) about decriminalizing pot or whatever, maybe the US will respond by deciding to beef up border security and give Canadians extra screening.

Well Canadian visits are up but not enough to offset the drastic drop in other foreign visits.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexandratalty/2017/10/12/us-economy-losing-billions-as-trump-slump-continues-in-tourism-sector/#49832a211869

Also note that this data is from 2017.  It will be interesting to see how this latest spat affects tourism. Note: this is only anecdotal but three older couples in my family who made Florida their winter home the last few years have opted for the Dominican next year.
 

Altair

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Jarnhamar said:
That doesn't make sense, the US is such a horrible place. And what about #BoycottUSA?
Article is a good example. When our government brags (as they're apt to do) about decriminalizing pot or whatever, maybe the US will respond by deciding to beef up border security and give Canadians extra screening.
Boycott USA will be seen in a month or two.

As for extra screening, sure, they might, but again, people simply stick to the line that they don't use pot and all is ok.

People are being asked about pot right now and it's not legal, so I really don't see why that changes.
 

Remius

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Also note two other views for 2018.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielreed/2018/03/15/despite-what-youve-heard-sagging-foreign-tourism-isnt-trumps-fault-and-heres-a-way-to-fix-it/#2af6f11444b8

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-04-05/trump-is-scaring-away-some-international-tourists
 

Colin Parkinson

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I respect the people who went the route to get pot legalized. I still think they utterly stupid for using it, but I support their right to be stupid. I suspect that it will lead to legal issues for people traveling internationally and I will also enjoy the wailing about "Big Pot" in 15 years or so. Not to mention smirking as the ex-undergrounders try to open for business and discover the joys of dealing with Bylaw Officers who will make dealing with the cops look like the "good old days" when cops turned a blind eye.
 

Altair

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Colin P said:
I respect the people who went the route to get pot legalized. I still think they utterly stupid for using it, but I support their right to be stupid. I suspect that it will lead to legal issues for people traveling internationally and I will also enjoy the wailing about "Big Pot" in 15 years or so. Not to mention smirking as the ex-undergrounders try to open for business and discover the joys of dealing with Bylaw Officers who will make dealing with the cops look like the "good old days" when cops turned a blind eye.
I don't get that personally.

Canadians are already some of the highest users of pot.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/marijuana-cannabis-minors-1.4454477

Nearly 5 million Canadians consume pot

More older Canadians, including senior citizens, are using marijuana as fewer minors consume the substance, according to a new study released Monday by Statistics Canada.

So these people are already travelling internationally, crossing borders, talking to border security. I'm sure they wont suddenly start blabbing to border security of other countries about their pot use just because it's legal on Oct 17th.

As for the ex undergrounders, in ontario and quebec, pot will be sold using government run stores, like the LCBO in Ontario and the SAQ in Quebec. The ex undergrounders wont be opening up shop, and I'm sure if the government hears that some stores are trying to cut into their monopoly, the crackdown will be swift and quick. As far as I can tell, there a a handful of companies already on the market ready to supply the pot, and the government pot agencies will most likely deal with them. These companies have a massive head start, as they were in business selling medical marijuana for a few years now.

That said, I'm biased, as I've invested a fair chunk of money in Canadian Cannabis since Trudeau was elected, and even though I don't use the stuff, I am sure going to profit from it.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/cannabis-legalization-in-canada-marijuana-stocks-surging-2018-6

The Canadian Marijuana Index, an aggregate measurement of all publicly-listed marijuana stocks in Canada, was up 3.34% as of 10:45 a.m. on Wednesday. The overall North American index, which includes US stocks, was up 2.28%.

Golden Leaf Holdings, a Canadian Securities Exchange-listed cannabis company, was the biggest gainer with the stock surging 6.81%.

Overall, legalized marijuana is expected to be a boon for Canada's economy. CIBC, one of the country's largest banks, predicts Canada's legal marijuana market will be a $6.5 billion industry by 2020.

And to note, Canada is a world leader in this. If we can get up and running before everyone else does it, we are in a prime position to be a major exporter of marijuana when other western countries get on board.
 

Jarnhamar

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Altair said:
As for extra screening, sure, they might, but again, people simply stick to the line that they don't use pot and all is ok.

Extra screening for ALL Canadians entering the country just to be safe.
 

Fishbone Jones

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Altair said:
As for the ex undergrounders, in ontario and quebec, pot will be sold using government run stores, like the LCBO in Ontario and the SAQ in Quebec. The ex undergrounders wont be opening up shop, and I'm sure if the government hears that some stores are trying to cut into their monopoly, the crackdown will be swift and quick. As far as I can tell, there a a handful of companies already on the market ready to supply the pot, and the government pot agencies will most likely deal with them. These companies have a massive head start, as they were in business selling medical marijuana for a few years now.

That was Wynne's idea. Premier Ford has already said he's in favour of privatization. His plan is to get the government out of the retail business.

Street dealers won't go legit. Too much overhead. If the government prices it too high, the dealers remain in business.

There's also pretty good stuff out there already and much cheaper than the providers are charging.

I expect even after it's legal, that people who already indulge will just stay with their current supplier.

A hell of a lot of people are just going to grow their own.
 

Fishbone Jones

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Altair said:
Boycott USA will be seen in a month or two.

As for extra screening, sure, they might, but again, people simply stick to the line that they don't use pot and all is ok.

People are being asked about pot right now and it's not legal, so I really don't see why that changes.

Til the dog hits on your car or luggage. You don't need to be carrying to have the dog alert. If it alerts and they think you're lying, they can detain you while they tear your car apart and leaving it on the floor.

Also, this isn't just a little white lie you're telling your parents. Get caught lying about it, you are finished going to the States.
 

Altair

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recceguy said:
That was Wynne's idea. Premier Ford has already said he's in favour of privatization. His plan is to get the government out of the retail business.

Street dealers won't go legit. Too much overhead. If the government prices it too high, the dealers remain in business.

There's also pretty good stuff out there already and much cheaper than the providers are charging.

I expect even after it's legal, that people who already indulge will just stay with their current supplier.

A hell of a lot of people are just going to grow their own.
Give the free market a year or two to adjust to the demand, and watch prices drop.

A lot of people will make the switch as the price drops when the supply meets the demand, and with the added incentive to not run afoul of the law when buying cannabis.

Long term, 10 years or so into this, there wont be many street dealers of pot, most people will be buying from legitimate outlets. I'm sure these same issues were brought up during alcohol prohibition coming to an end.
 
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