Trouble with the Neighbours
- Thread starter pbi
- Start date
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
I love these stories.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
they scare the hell out of me. These are the people we're supposed to expect backing us up?CFL said:
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
I laugh when I'm scared.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
I second these sads tales of ISAF multi-national incompetence, and then some. Once Canada handed over control of ISAF, it fell in the ditch. A few new meanings for the acronym, developed during ISAF VI by the maladjusted ISAF LO team up at CJTF76:
ISAF= I'm Scared And Frightened;
ISAF= I'm Such A F*ckwit;
ISAF= I Suck At Fighting; and
ISAF: I Shop AFghanistan.
The sooner we are working for OEF, the better.
Cheers.
ISAF= I'm Scared And Frightened;
ISAF= I'm Such A F*ckwit;
ISAF= I Suck At Fighting; and
ISAF: I Shop AFghanistan.
The sooner we are working for OEF, the better.
Cheers.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
On roto 0 the sigs in the rover section used to do lots of driver taskings for the brass at warehouse. One day two of us were tasked to drive/support an eng MWO who was involved witht the demining ect. We were out in the middle of nowhere heading out to a range that they used to blow up uxo's ect and this MWO has us stop and search two locals pushing wheelbarrows through the desert. Turns out that the locals had explosives sstolen from the range (and no doubt heading for sale). So we called in to ask for some support but it seems that because we are in the French AOR we have to wait for them to help us or give our QRF permission to come to give us a hand. The French decided that it was up to them to come and take over custody of the locals so after about an hour of "it's not my job" they decide to send their own QRF. 3 hours later (4 or more in total) we finaly saw some French troops.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
my undermanned section beng sent back out after an 8 hour patrol to protect a platoon of Germans looking for their missing UAV. Yeah. 6 of us to provide security for 30+ Germans, because they were scared. They couldn't be bothered to knock on doors, or look for themselves. They wanted us to provide a cordon for them while they waited for sunrise, napping in their vehs.
Shut that down pretty quick.
Shut that down pretty quick.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Cleaning out the towers at warehouse after the Germans abandoned their posts ( because they were cold ) only to find them full of empty beer cans. 
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
The look of utter disbelief after we told the Czechs we were working with that we don't beat Gypsies in our AOR.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
OK, here goes â “ skirting the bounds of OPSEC:
Kabul, October 2004
I get a call from â Å“Tonyâ ? a contractor with whom we'd done some work in past. Tony says that he's just seen a UN vehicle stopped by the Intercontinental Hotel and the occupants forced out of their vehicle at gunpoint. They were then loaded into a Black Toyota Surf, which Tony was following at a discrete distance.
One of the guys sprints down to the operations centre while we keep Tony on the phone. By ranting and raving, he manages to get a Dutch AH-64 (Apache) airborne (the Dutch were actually pretty good and could be very aggressive). The Apache picks up the Toyota immediately and tracks it to a house in the NW part of Kabul. (Apache capabilities are public knowledge)
The Apache begins to orbit the house and Tony gets the wave-off.
All is good, right?
Wrong. ISAF gets involved. The Afghans are to run this... â Å“Second rowâ ?, blah, blah, blah...
ISAF orders the Apache away from the scene, for reasons no one understands. The Dutch are livid, but ISAF insists. The house is left unmonitored while the Kabul City Police argue who is going to run the show (although some of us suspected that there was â Å“something elseâ ? going on with them). Does ISAF put in a cordon? No. Is surveillance laid on? No. Do they do ANYTHING? Nope...
Three hours later, the KCP moves in â “ no sign of a Toyota, no sign of hostages...nothing. Gee what a surprise.
The result? Three poor people were held for over a month, with absolutely no support from ISAF and no action. I happened to lead preparations for the â Å“military optionâ ?, which (thankfully) didn't involve ISAF forces (except on the periphery). The mismanagement, prevaricating, indecision, and lack of operational security was breathtaking to behold. I still shake my head at some of the HQ ISAF briefings I had to attend. The "other agencies" I became involved with quickly refused to speak with anyone from ISAF or from a European country and confined themselves to planning with the Canadian (me) and the Brit (for obvious reasons). ISAF appeared to be more concerned with the Public Relations angle than anything else.
In the end, they conducted their own direct action within the confines of Kabul (and the ISAF AOR) and the hostages were freed... ISAF was cut completely out of the operation and there was much European bitterness as a result... :'(
Say it isn't so!!
Kabul, October 2004
I get a call from â Å“Tonyâ ? a contractor with whom we'd done some work in past. Tony says that he's just seen a UN vehicle stopped by the Intercontinental Hotel and the occupants forced out of their vehicle at gunpoint. They were then loaded into a Black Toyota Surf, which Tony was following at a discrete distance.
One of the guys sprints down to the operations centre while we keep Tony on the phone. By ranting and raving, he manages to get a Dutch AH-64 (Apache) airborne (the Dutch were actually pretty good and could be very aggressive). The Apache picks up the Toyota immediately and tracks it to a house in the NW part of Kabul. (Apache capabilities are public knowledge)
The Apache begins to orbit the house and Tony gets the wave-off.
All is good, right?
Wrong. ISAF gets involved. The Afghans are to run this... â Å“Second rowâ ?, blah, blah, blah...
ISAF orders the Apache away from the scene, for reasons no one understands. The Dutch are livid, but ISAF insists. The house is left unmonitored while the Kabul City Police argue who is going to run the show (although some of us suspected that there was â Å“something elseâ ? going on with them). Does ISAF put in a cordon? No. Is surveillance laid on? No. Do they do ANYTHING? Nope...
Three hours later, the KCP moves in â “ no sign of a Toyota, no sign of hostages...nothing. Gee what a surprise.
The result? Three poor people were held for over a month, with absolutely no support from ISAF and no action. I happened to lead preparations for the â Å“military optionâ ?, which (thankfully) didn't involve ISAF forces (except on the periphery). The mismanagement, prevaricating, indecision, and lack of operational security was breathtaking to behold. I still shake my head at some of the HQ ISAF briefings I had to attend. The "other agencies" I became involved with quickly refused to speak with anyone from ISAF or from a European country and confined themselves to planning with the Canadian (me) and the Brit (for obvious reasons). ISAF appeared to be more concerned with the Public Relations angle than anything else.
In the end, they conducted their own direct action within the confines of Kabul (and the ISAF AOR) and the hostages were freed... ISAF was cut completely out of the operation and there was much European bitterness as a result... :'(
Canadian Sig said:Cleaning out the towers at warehouse after the Germans abandoned their posts ( because they were cold ) only to find them full of empty beer cans.
Say it isn't so!!
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
ISAF 0, first patrol in our AO. The Germans are 'leading' us around to get us familiarized with it. They get lost.
They'd never dismounted before. They'd never left the two MSRs. They'd never done a night patrol.
They'd never dismounted before. They'd never left the two MSRs. They'd never done a night patrol.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
This approach used to make me sick. It was ISAF-speak for "let's do nothing". It was particularly evident during the preparations to support the national Hajj (the religious pilgrimage to Mecca) and during the Oil Crisis when the highway to the east of Kabul was closed, blocking all POL supplies for both ISAF and CJTF76. I got tired (and quite embarassed..) of trying to explain this inertia to the folks in CJTF76, who were very much in the more dynamic "take action" mould. The "second row" approach ideally suited the indolent EuroCorps attitude.
Cheers.
- Reaction score
- 3
- Points
- 430
Good to see that the Europeans are pretty standard in their operations procedures as we had similar experiences with them in Iraq.
The first tip off as to what it was going to be like wrking with the Europeans was when my company was attached to 2 Bn. 25th Marine Regiment to assist in the handover of the Nasiriyah AOR to the Italians in late June 2003. As the Italians were moving into our compound, we were having a conersation with a group of them, one of which was grossly obese (probably weighing around 270 lbs) and he proceeded to inform us that his unit (an Italian mountain infantry/Alpinei) was "Elite Infantry". Coming from him, it was more humorous than anything.
Then in Sept. when 1st Marine Division was finishing the handover of the Babil province to the Multi-National Division under the command of the Poles we got out taste of more European excellence in military professionalism at Camp Babylon. After having been dispatched on QRF patrols numerous times to investigate shots coming in from the perimeter guard posts (which the Poles were manning) only to find that they were shooting at stray dogs. Despite numerous liasons between our command staff and the Poles to try and resolve these incidents, the Poles would continue to have sporadic weapons discharges from their posts.
When the Poles weren't shooting at dogs or trash or whatever they fancied shooting at, the guards we had to work with as part of our interior security duties (Our company was charged with providing the security detail for the 1st Marine Division and 1st Marine Expeditionary Force Headquarters). It was acceptable for the Poles to be lounging around their headquarters building which neighbored ours, often napping in the bushes behind their building, or or leaning up against the building smoking and bsing with each other, totally oblivious to their surroundings.
The best was when 2 members of our company went exploring around what should have been a secure hq for the Poles. They walked straight in, without any challenge from the guards, nosed around the various offices, and proceeded to walk to the roof where a sight beyond belief scarred them for life. On the rooftop patio of the Poles headquarters building was a group of about 20 overweight and late middle-aged Poles clad in their Euro-Speedo type underwear all dancing and jamming out to techno music that was blaring from a boombox. No women were present. The 2 Marines promptly left, despite inviting gestures from the Poles to come and join the party.
About the only thing that really motivated the Poles was the KBR catered mess hall. They'd start to line up outside the dining facility 30-45 minutes before it opened everyday.
The first tip off as to what it was going to be like wrking with the Europeans was when my company was attached to 2 Bn. 25th Marine Regiment to assist in the handover of the Nasiriyah AOR to the Italians in late June 2003. As the Italians were moving into our compound, we were having a conersation with a group of them, one of which was grossly obese (probably weighing around 270 lbs) and he proceeded to inform us that his unit (an Italian mountain infantry/Alpinei) was "Elite Infantry". Coming from him, it was more humorous than anything.
Then in Sept. when 1st Marine Division was finishing the handover of the Babil province to the Multi-National Division under the command of the Poles we got out taste of more European excellence in military professionalism at Camp Babylon. After having been dispatched on QRF patrols numerous times to investigate shots coming in from the perimeter guard posts (which the Poles were manning) only to find that they were shooting at stray dogs. Despite numerous liasons between our command staff and the Poles to try and resolve these incidents, the Poles would continue to have sporadic weapons discharges from their posts.
When the Poles weren't shooting at dogs or trash or whatever they fancied shooting at, the guards we had to work with as part of our interior security duties (Our company was charged with providing the security detail for the 1st Marine Division and 1st Marine Expeditionary Force Headquarters). It was acceptable for the Poles to be lounging around their headquarters building which neighbored ours, often napping in the bushes behind their building, or or leaning up against the building smoking and bsing with each other, totally oblivious to their surroundings.
The best was when 2 members of our company went exploring around what should have been a secure hq for the Poles. They walked straight in, without any challenge from the guards, nosed around the various offices, and proceeded to walk to the roof where a sight beyond belief scarred them for life. On the rooftop patio of the Poles headquarters building was a group of about 20 overweight and late middle-aged Poles clad in their Euro-Speedo type underwear all dancing and jamming out to techno music that was blaring from a boombox. No women were present. The 2 Marines promptly left, despite inviting gestures from the Poles to come and join the party.
About the only thing that really motivated the Poles was the KBR catered mess hall. They'd start to line up outside the dining facility 30-45 minutes before it opened everyday.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
This latest post by Matt reminds me of a further example of this style of non-leadership. My partner in the ISAF LO team was an RAF officer. He related to me that a fellow RAF type had been given a spot running a shift in the ISAF TAOC (Tac Air Ops Centre) at ISAF HQ Kabul. Frustrated and sickened with the general air of incompetence, laziness and sluggishness, the Brit gave his staff a bit of a "verbal motivation" to get them working at the sort of pace one would expect in an operational HQ. He was met with sullen resistance, and the Chief of the TAOC took him aside and told him that he had to "stop pressuring" the TAOC staff as they were used to "working at a European pace".
I could go on an on but I won't-Teddy Ruxpin and anybody else here who had any dealings with ISAF VI knows exactly what I mean. I am careful, by the way, to distinguish between the good work by our Canadians in TFK (most of whom did not work directly for ISAF) and the clown act down at the Military Sports Club grounds where ISAF had its cafes--er, sorry--HQ..
Cheers
I could go on an on but I won't-Teddy Ruxpin and anybody else here who had any dealings with ISAF VI knows exactly what I mean. I am careful, by the way, to distinguish between the good work by our Canadians in TFK (most of whom did not work directly for ISAF) and the clown act down at the Military Sports Club grounds where ISAF had its cafes--er, sorry--HQ..
Cheers
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Teddy Ruxpin said:Say it isn't so!!
Fraid so. We provided them with hunter heaters but they could'nt be bothered to fuel them so they burned wood in them until they were un-usable. Then one evening one of our cooks glances up at the nearest tower and realizes nobody is there. Turns out that the germans tasked with guarding the Canadian annex got cold and decided to go home to their own side of the camp (leaving us totaly un-guarded). The next morning the sigs were tasked to man and clean the towers and we found piles of empty beer cans and even a few empty scnaps (sp?) bottles. Cant say I was suprized. This is the same Germans who "warning shot" a 14 years old outside of our wire one night on roto 0.
- Reaction score
- 9,194
- Points
- 1,260
Teddy Ruxpin said:
So are we keeping the Dutch on the "Armies I would work" with side, along with the Brits, Aussies, NZ, and Americans? I had the same decent experiences working with them on SFOR, but it was Infantry guys.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
Hmmm. I'm not sure. I have not been impressed with Dutch staff officers - in SFOR, IRF(L) or ISAF.
However, their Apache crews are almost entirely American trained and reflect a US Army mentality. In ISAF, they had their own pipeline to CJTF-76 that they used to good effect - on at least one occasion contrary to ISAF direction. I'll say that I thought the Apaches were very good, and leave it at that!
Cheers,
TR
However, their Apache crews are almost entirely American trained and reflect a US Army mentality. In ISAF, they had their own pipeline to CJTF-76 that they used to good effect - on at least one occasion contrary to ISAF direction. I'll say that I thought the Apaches were very good, and leave it at that!
Cheers,
TR
Similar threads
