Tory minority in jeopardy as opposition talks coalition. Will there be another election?

[Bane]

...and the response.

Day denies report of 2000 coalition plot with Bloc:
Former Alliance leader once told reporters, 'I'm not big on labels'




http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/12/03/day-bloc.html

 

[midget-boyd91]

Maybe someone with more knowledge about the legalities involved with federal politics can help me with this one.

A referendum.

We had a general just weeks ago, so it has been decided which party represents which riding already.
But that was for all parties, and now that the left have merged, albeit temporarily, I believe that we should, rather than have another general election, cast a vote in a national referendum to decide if we want the Conservatives to stay at the wheel, or allow the Coalition to take the keys, all the while keeping the seats in the House Of Commons as they are now.
I think that rather than have a government chosen by those seeking to get into power, WE should choose.

A ballot with two choices, something like this:
------------------------------ --------------------------
Who do you wish to have as your government?

l  l    Stephen Harper: Conservative
l  l    Stephan Dion: Liberal/NDP Coalition 

------------------------------ Ƞ--------------------------
Keep the House as it is, but vote for who we want to lead it.

Midget

 

[Armymedic]

Its being reported that Layton went whining to the media requesting time in prime time to speak to the people. Correctly (IMHO), the media said no, we are giving time to the PM and the leader of the Coalition.

Layton reportedly whined that as a party leader in the "proposed" coalition he was due his time to speak.

The less this guy gets to talk....the better it is for all of us.

 

[tank recce]

And the Liberal one.

In our Canada, the government derives its legitimacy from an elected Parliament.

Am I the only one who finds this a combination of hilarious, baffling, and infuriating? This man is in the process of attempting to circumvent the legitimacy of the elected Parliament.

I'm shaking the bones and burning incense, hoping Her Excellency will call them both before her for a short 'n' sweet:
"Mister Harper, I will not prorogue Parliament. Monsieur Dion, I will not accept your coalition as the Government of Canada. Thank you, gentlemen; that will be all."

 

[Kirkhill]

Am I the only one who finds this a combination of hilarious, baffling, and infuriating? This man is in the process of attempting to circumvent the legitimacy of the elected Parliament.

I'm shaking the bones and burning incense, hoping Her Excellency will call them both before her for a short 'n' sweet:
"Mister Harper, I will not prorogue Parliament. Monsieur Dion, I will not accept your coalition as the Government of Canada. Thank you, gentlemen; that will be all."

In line with the above comment AND Brad's list of what's OK:

Given that it is Her Excellency's Government (acting in lieu of Her Majesty)
and that it is only "convention" that she must pick her Government from the Lower House
and that it seems the we are in the process of chucking convention out the window here

What is to prevent the GG nominating some existing Privy Counsellor, or for that matter Senator, as her PM? 

I mean, if we are going to speculate we may as well keep the speculation lively.

 

[tamtam10]

It scares me to think that the Liberals and NDP would join the Bloc, a separitist party, in order to form a coalition. What does that say about their integrity?

 

[Scratch_043]

I think that there is one good question that should be posed by the PM to the GG, and then in turn by the GG to the 'New Libs on the Bloc':

If the GG decides to allow the Coalition to govern as a single entity, the NDP and the Liberals (and Bloc) together, right? BUT if she elects to send Canada back to the polls instead, will this 'Coalition' run as a single entity then (seeing as they have already finalized their 'coalition' uniting them until 2011), or will they break their *sacred bond* to work together until 2011, and run against each other in the election?

The answer to that question alone should be a very good indicator of how serious this coalition is. They say 'no' shows they're not serious about wanting to work together 'for the good of Canada'. They say 'yes' they're a bunch of liars, and betray their constituents trust, thereby damning their prospects of re-election in. Kind of a catch 22, isn't it?

*I think that after asking the question, and getting a 'yes' answer from the leader(s) of the coalition, and if she determines that the new coalition should not be allowed to assume power without being voted in on their new, changed, combined platform (which is neither here nor there, where each of the parties past platforms is concerned), she should send us to the polls, with CPC and (insert name for coalition here) on the ballot, rather than the individual parties.

Nic

 

[retiredgrunt45]

"My DNA would never allow me to form a coalition with the socialists and my heart would never allow me to associate with separatists."

Mr. day your DNA and heart certainly didn't stop you a few years back when you and Mr.Harper couldn't get to Gilles office fast enough to sign that agreement for the Bloc's support in the house against the Martin Liberals.

Please try telling the truth once in a while, its actually quite liberating and you never have to think about coming up with a new version to tell people everyday. Forest Gump was mentally challenged. What's your excuse?

And that wasn't the only one, not by a long shot, there were many others who got up and just outright lied about their past dealings with the Bloc or the NDP. My God people most of this stuff is already public knowledge. why would they lie about it?. What they think that we're all blind, deaf and dumb? They must!

I've never seen so much BS coming from the governments side of the house as I seen during question period these past few days. Some one should have offered the poor speaker of the house a shovel, because he almost needed it to shovel himself a path to the door and If there had been a crap-o meter on the wall it would have excused itself and headed for the door, out of sheer embarrasment.

And these are the same people who are running our country. Shamefull and quite disturbing. I have become totally and utterly disgusted with these clowns. Hypocrites, every last one of them! They say children learn their behaviours from adults, well I think this time, these so called adults should take the example from the children, because children for the most part, don't even act this badly or outright lie to you while keeping a smile on their face.

I think the people in Thailand had it right.

 

[tamtam10]

It's unforunate Canada could go through another election, especially when the left is all about doing what's right for our economy. Spending another $300+ million on an election is NOT right for our economy. The Canadian public spoke a few weeks ago and decided to go with a Conservative minority.

 

[a_majoor]

Sweet Jumping Ch***t!

The CPC gathered the other parties together to agree to pass a non confidence motion, bring down the Martin government and FORCE AN ELECTION. The circumstances were also quite clear (and different) as the sitting government was being exposed by the Gomery Inquiry as harbouring a nest of corruption and abuse of the public trust. IF you really want to talk about hypocrisy and double dealing, how was it the Prime Minister and Minister of Finance during the Adscam period could claim with straight faces they were unaware of the diversion of millions of taxpayer dollars from public funds to companies with very close ties to the Liberal Party? (And the Canadian MSM never investigated this odd state of affairs?)

The current coalition of the inept wants to bring down a sitting government and assume power without an election (and to prevent an election until 2011 if they can get there without imploding), and the sitting government has not been revealed to be corrupt or abusive of the public's trust; only people with rather different ideas about who actually controls the taxpayer's wealth (hint, unlike the coalition this government's answer is you and me).

 

[TCBF]

It's unforunate Canada could go through another election, especially when the left is all about doing what's right for our economy. Spending another $300+ million on an election is NOT right for our economy. The Canadian public spoke a few weeks ago and decided to go with a Conservative minority.

- When Joe Clark's PCs lost the vote on John Crosbie's budget on 13 Dec 1979, it triggered another federal election and Trudeau was once again PM.  Seems the Canadian people changed their mind on the status quo.  Might happen again.

- Think of the $300,000,000 election cost as an economic stimulus.

 

[Scratch_043]

Some new numbers from Facebook groups:
(I am posting both the for and against groups from the first 6 pages of results I got on a group search for coalition)

For:
Canadians for a Progressive Coalition - Coalition Progressiste Canadienne
14,702 Members

For a Coalition Government in Canada/ Pour un Gouvernment de Coalition
4,165 Members

I'm in favour of the Liberal/NDP Coalition Government
3,562 Members

Canadians For a Liberal-NDP Coalition
2,685

Canadians for a coalition government.
1,692 Members

Make Parliment Work: Coalition government now!
1,556 Members

I Support Canada's Liberal-NDP Coalition Government
1,524 Members

We Want Canada to Have a Progressive Coalition Government
1,192 Members


Against:
Petition to say "NO" to a Coalition Government
3,484 Members

AGAINST a coalition government / CONTRE un gouvernment de coalition
2,553 Members

Canadians Against the Left Coalition
2,479 Members

Kill the Coalition
1,722 Members

Canadians Against a Liberal/NDP Coalition Gov't
85,384 Members

Canadians against coalition government
10,344 Members

Canadians Against (a) Coalition Government
5,156 Members

Protect Our Democoracy, Stop the NDP-Liberal-Bloc Coalition
4,911 Members

Protest the Liberal coalition - petition the Governor General
16,145 Members

Coalition Against The Coalition Government
1,775 Members

No to Coalition Government - Yes to Democracy in Canada
1,708 Members


Totals:
31 078 For
135 661 Against

I know it's not an official pole, but if this is any indication of how Canadians in general feel about it, the Conservative government still has the majority of support in this country.

(edited to fix typo)

 

[retiredgrunt45]

I was referring to all parties when I said "these clowns" no just the CPC.

I'm actually a Liberal and I do support my party, but there has to be a better way for everyone involved to resolve this matter, other than what is transpiring right now in the house. It's completely ludicrous and idiotic they way the parties are behaving and I don't like were this is going.

If the GG grants Harper a parogue tomorrow, which she mostly likely will, it will only get messier over the next six weeks and we'll all be knee deep in it come January 26Th and at the end, unless the budget has clusters of diamonds and gold attached to it, Harper will be facing a non-confidence vote again, so we're right back we're we started.

Like I said ealier, The people in Thailand had it right.

 

[john10]

IF you really want to talk about hypocrisy and double dealing, how was it the Prime Minister and Minister of Finance during the Adscam period could claim with straight faces they were unaware of the diversion of millions of taxpayer dollars from public funds to companies with very close ties to the Liberal Party? (And the Canadian MSM never investigated this odd state of affairs?)

Paul Martin was responsible for managing a budget of $160bn+. Do you really expect him to have known how every increment of tens of millions was spent or mis-spent? It's a pretty silly allegation.

 

[retiredgrunt45]

Posted with all the usual caveats.

Canadians divided on toppling government: poll
Posted: December 03, 2008, 11:02 AM by Julie Smyth
Canadian Politics
An new Angus Reid poll suggests the public is divided on the possibility of an opposition coalition throwing the Conservatives out of power.

The poll of 1,000 Canadians shows:

35% believe the Conservatives deserve to continue in government; 40% disagree
If the Tories fall: 37% would allow the opposition to form a coalition government; 32% would hold a new federal election
57% are worried about the Bloc Québécois becoming involved in the federal government; 64% would not be comfortable with Stéphane Dion becoming Canada’s Prime Minister
53% believe the Tories have not done a good job in dealing with the economic crisis; 75% think the federal government should implement a stimulus package to boost the economy as soon as possible
The poll was conducted Monday and Tuesday using an online survey and offfers one of the first glimpses into how Canadians feel about the crisis on Parliament Hill. The margin of error is +/- 3.1%, 19 times out of 20.

The survey also shows that a majority of Canadians express disappointment with the way the Tories have dealt with the economic crisis, and urge the implementation of a stimulus package to boost the economy.

Canadians are split on whether their own Member of Parliament should support the confidence motion against the Conservative minority government (In favour 36%, Against 40%), on whether the opposition parties should get together and topple Stephen Harper's Government (Yes 36%, No 41%), and on whether the Conservative Party deserves to stay in government (Yes 35%, No 40%).

Respondents were provided with three choices in the event the Conservatives are defeated in the House of Commons next Monday: 37% would allow the opposition to form a coalition government, while 32% would prefer to hold a new federal election, and seven per cent would opt for letting the opposition govern by accord.

Support for the coalition concept is highest in Quebec (48%), B.C. (39%) and Atlantic Canada (36%), while Ontarians are evenly divided on the issue and respondents in Alberta (53%) and Manitoba and Saskatchewan (43%) would prefer to vote again.

Only one-in-four Canadians (25%) admit that they would be comfortable with Liberal leader Stéphane Dion becoming Canada's Prime Minister, while almost two-thirds of respondents (64%) are uncomfortable with this notion. In Canada’s most populous provinces—Quebec and Ontario—three-in-five respondents (60%) are not at ease with the idea of Mr. Dion at 24 Sussex.

A majority of respondents (57%) are worried about the Bloc Québécois becoming involved in the federal government, while three-in-ten (30%) disagree. Almost half of Quebecers (57%) see no problem with the sovereignist party's participation in a coalition, but large majorities in Alberta (82%), Manitoba and Saskatchewan (74%) and British Columbia (66%) are concerned.

Three-in-four Canadians (75%) think the federal government should implement a stimulus package to boost the economy as soon as possible, and a majority (53%) believes the Conservatives have not done a good job in dealing with the economic crisis.

 

[Zell_Dietrich]

I love political opinion polls. It is generally good information to know.  However,  the only opinion poll that matters happens on election day. 

The conservatives got a minority government.  They chose to act in a belligerent manner and lost the confidence of the house.  When the non confidence vote happens, and it will,  the GG by tradition will ask the collation to form the government. 

The PM speech had a few errors of fact.  This does have historical precedent.

As an aside,  I get e-mails from the conservatives in it they spoke about PARIZEAU
In English:
Hard line separatists like Jacques Parizeau have only one objective: the establishment of a weak, unstable and disoriented federal government that will forever be incapable of acting in the national interest.

In French:
Les souverainistes convaincus comme Jacques Parizeau n’ont qu’un seul objectif : la mise en place d’un gouvernement fédéral faible, instable et désorienté qui sera toujours incapable d’agir dans l’intérêt national.

I respect the time honoured tradition of saying one thing to one group and saying a slightly different thing to another group.... but please try not to do it on the same page.

 

[Zell_Dietrich]

- When Joe Clark's PCs lost the vote on John Crosbie's budget on 13 Dec 1979, it triggered another federal election and Trudeau was once again PM.  Seems the Canadian people changed their mind on the status quo.  Might happen again.

- Think of the $300,000,000 election cost as an economic stimulus.

Plus what the political parties would spend.  I know five people who work on election day for elections Canada.  It isn't great money,  but I like it.

 

[The Bread Guy]

- When Joe Clark's PCs lost the vote on John Crosbie's budget on 13 Dec 1979, it triggered another federal election and Trudeau was once again PM.  Seems the Canadian people changed their mind on the status quo.  Might happen again.

Like the last election changed the parliamentary landscape so very much from the previous iteration?  ;D

My guesstimate (coaxed by some FAR wiser than me in these things):  PM'll ask for prorogation, and because technically he still has the confidence of Parliament (because there's been no vote), the GG will have to give him what he seeks.  The opposition SAYS they have no confidence in the current gov't, but they have not VOTED to that effect - like the difference between surveys/polls/divining and an election.  That, and $1, won't get you a Timmie's large double-double, but I cast it out there...

 

[Zell_Dietrich]

I have a song stuck in my head.  It goes,  "what a difference a day makes,  just 24 little hours" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1r6GcPqFSo (A favorite movie of mine  Lola Rennt http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffv8I7AELqA if you have the time Unlike Lola, Harper can't simply insist that he will not go away, declare a stop and start over.)

What a difference a week makes.

One week ago the conservatives kicked this whole thing into motion.  One week ago they went to present their economic update, and had the attitude of "we're in charge,  you can just take it or suffer the consequences".  They jammed it with stuff that the opposition couldn't tolerate, stripping some workers of their right to strike, the poisin pill of campain funding, and of course the lack of any stimulus.

Now we have the PM adressing the nation, pleading for public support to help him keep his job, even though he has done very little to help them keep theirs.  He is now going to play procedural tricks to stay in power longer;  using the power of his office for his own benifit to the detriment of the people by simply delaying what will happen.  Canadians want action now,  actions the conservatives are unwilling or unable to take. 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

  They jammed it with stuff that the opposition couldn't tolerate, stripping some workers of their right to strike, the poisin pill of campain funding, and of course the lack of any stimulus.

Now we have the PM adressing the nation, pleading for public support to help him keep his job, even though he has done very little to help them keep theirs.  He is now going to play procedural tricks to stay in power longer;  using the power of his office for his own benifit to the detriment of the people by simply delaying what will happen.  Canadians want action now,  actions the conservatives are unwilling or unable to take.  

Who the f@%& are you to tell me what I want?

I don't want a stimulus package, we somewhat saved our economy by not being lemmings and following the rest of the world into eventual financial chaos over the last few years.

If we have to save cash than I couldn't think of a better way than to stop wasting it on political parties.

.and lastly, and they can take back my right to strike in a friggin' heartbeat, I always did just about as well at contract time without having to give back 8 weeks pay to finance that raise.

Did I miss anything Zell?