Toronto trustees vote in favour of black-focused schools

[PMedMoe]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but I was floored when I read this yesterday.  IMHO, this is outright discrimination.

Article Link

A proposal to create Canada's first black-focused public school was approved by Toronto District School Board trustees Tuesday night.

They have recommended the creation of an alternative school that features a curriculum and teaching environment oriented around black history and culture.

The vote took place after an evening debate on the controversial proposal, which critics believe is a plan for segregation, while supporters believe it could keep more black students in school.

More on link.

 

[vonGarvin]

The real problem with this is that "black" culture does not exist, any more so than "white" culture exists.  Just as Britons and Greeks are miles apart in many respects, so too are Jamaicans and Kenyans.  To assume that "black" is a culture is an ingnorant example of our "wise" white leaders in Toronto classifying and pandering to their own racist beliefs, which they have firmly in denial.  They wish to segregate based on race.
Section 15 of the charter says :

15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.
(2) Subsection (1) does not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its object the amelioration of conditions of disadvantaged individuals or groups including those that are disadvantaged because of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

Sub section 2 does allow for "affirmative action" programs bases on race, etc, however, this is but one problem with the charter.  Instead of just leaving sub section 1 alone, making it illegal to discriminate based on those criteria, instead it says that Big Brother can discriminate.  Now, as far as I can tell, "black" students in Toronto are not disadvantaged due to race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex age or mental or physical disability.  Some may say that they are, but I would disagree.

 

[Roy Harding]

This has been an ongoing issue for quite a while now (but you'd only know it if you took the time to read editorials in most Canadian daily's - retirement is great!)

The proponents of the "afri-centric" schools would have you believe that they are not trying to create race based schools.  Just schools with a different "emphasis" toward black kids and history.

I agree with you - it's absurd.  If you want to see where "afri-centric" schools take you, just take a quick trip to Africa, or Jamaica, or Haiti, or inner city New York or Detroit in the '70s.

There is a definite problem these folks are honestly trying to address - but I don't think they've hit upon the solution.

 

[PMedMoe]

A guest blogger from Canoe.ca puts forth some very good points against this system.

Innocent Madawo's Blog

And of course, Comments on the original article with "tweetypie", a frequent flyer here at Army.ca, spewing off their usually inarticulate comments.

 

[jimb]

The problem is that black parents do NOT value education enough to get their kids to STAY in school.

Regard the Chinese and the  Indians, who DO value education over bling and hip hop lifestyles. Their kids not only stay in school they go to University and GRADUATE with a degree and go on to greater things as adults. Meanwhile  the black kids, and their Parents are still bitching about things and how they are  so hard done by.  No positive role models and no "stick to it " attitude.

How many times have we read about the 18 year old Chinese kid who is the top scholar in their grade 12 class, who only arrived in Canada at age 12, with NO English at all , and now they are a 95 percent average student ?  Why ? Mum and Dad are BOTH on his case every night about doing MORE work and getting better marks. They EXPECT him to succeed, no questions asked. They model for the kids how to be a success in life, by working hard and saving money to  pay for their postsecondary  education.

This " African -centred " school will be a failure. Why ? The  black kids will still be unmotivated and failling, as they are now. It needs a completely new attitude and that isn;t about to happen in the black community. It is way  easier to complain, than to  pull up your  socks and  work at it .

Jim B. Toronto.

 

[George Wallace]

I guess none of them are taking Bill Cosby's advice.

 

[vonGarvin]

So, we have schools for blacks coming?  Why not go a step farther, and give them their own entrances and seats in cinemas (so they can enjoy movies from "a black perspective" without "white influence").  Of course, they will need their own bathrooms, and let's reserve the back of the bus for them.  Heck, why did we even stop doing all this before?  I mean, did we have it right years ago?

:

 

[George Wallace]

This will open the doors for Islamic Schools to proliferate the Metro area.

 

[Gimpy]

So, we have schools for blacks coming?  Why not go a step farther, and give them their own entrances and seats in cinemas (so they can enjoy movies from "a black perspective" without "white influence").  Of course, they will need their own bathrooms, and let's reserve the back of the bus for them.  Heck, why did we even stop doing all this before?  I mean, did we have it right years ago?

:

No this won't do anything like that at all. This is not segregation. None of the black students are being forced to go there, its only for parents who think their children will do better in an Afro-Centric learning environment. They've also made it clear that non-blacks will be allowed to attend (although I doubt many will). I personally don't agree with the idea of the school, but if it turns out that it improves the students grades then I'm all for it. Theres no need for rhetoric like that anyway.

This will open the doors for Islamic Schools to proliferate the Metro area.

There is no chance of this happening because the idea was already shot down in the provincial election and this school is race-based, while Islamic schools are religion based. Two completely different ideas that have already been decided on, and I really don't think 75+% of the province is going to change their minds in religious schools based on one race-based school opening.

 

[Rodahn]

The problem is that black parents do NOT value education enough to get their kids to STAY in school.

Regard the Chinese and the  Indians, who DO value education over bling and hip hop lifestyles. Their kids not only stay in school they go to University and GRADUATE with a degree and go on to greater things as adults. Meanwhile  the black kids, and their Parents are still bitching about things and how they are  so hard done by.  No positive role models and no "stick to it " attitude.

How many times have we read about the 18 year old Chinese kid who is the top scholar in their grade 12 class, who only arrived in Canada at age 12, with NO English at all , and now they are a 95 percent average student ?  Why ? Mum and Dad are BOTH on his case every night about doing MORE work and getting better marks. They EXPECT him to succeed, no questions asked. They model for the kids how to be a success in life, by working hard and saving money to  pay for their postsecondary  education.

This " African -centred " school will be a failure. Why ? The  black kids will still be unmotivated and failling, as they are now. It needs a completely new attitude and that isn;t about to happen in the black community. It is way  easier to complain, than to  pull up your  socks and  work at it .

Jim B. Toronto.

In some cases this is true, however you are applying the "broad brush stroke" to all blacks which is simply not the case. Nor is the same true for all Chinese and Indian immigrants as witnessed by the current gang problems in the greater Vancouver area.

 

[PMedMoe]

There is no chance of this happening because the idea was already shot down in the provincial election and this school is race-based, while Islamic schools are religion based. Two completely different ideas that have already been decided on, and I really don't think 75+% of the province is going to change their minds in religious schools based on one race-based school opening.

Have you heard of the Catholic School Board in Ontario?

 

[Rodahn]

There is no chance of this happening because the idea was already shot down in the provincial election and this school is race-based, while Islamic schools are religion based. Two completely different ideas that have already been decided on, and I really don't think 75+% of the province is going to change their minds in religious schools based on one race-based school opening.

Ummmm, what about all of the "Catholic church" schools already operating???????

 

[Rodahn]

Have you heard of the Catholic School Board in Ontario?

Great minds I guess eh Moe?????

 

[vonGarvin]

"Black schools" or whatever flavour of the month name they are giving it is racist, pure and simple, because it implies that black students cannot function in schools.  Makes me want to vomit. 

 

[George Wallace]

Actually Gimpy, if one looks at the Charter of Human Rights (Yes......once again it raises its ugly head) the Race card you just said is not the same are Religion, is incorrect.  Both are covered equally in the same line of the Charter. 

 

[Gimpy]

Have you heard of the Catholic School Board in Ontario?

I don't know if you're from Ontario or not, but a big issue in the last provincial election was the issue of funding more religious schools (jewish, islamic, buddist, et al.). The Conservative Party was a big supporter of this idea, and the Ontario population overwhelmingly polled against it, which no doubt cost the Conservatives the election. If you are from Ontario sorry for putting it so simply, but they weren't polled on existing schools boards, but instead more schools for different religions.

I also want to clarify that I am in no way in favour of this, like Mortarman said it does reek of racism, but I'm willing to take an open mind and see if it improves, if it does more power to them, if it doesn't then shut 'em down.

Actually Gimpy, if one looks at the Charter of Human Rights (Yes......once again it raises its ugly head) the Race card you just said is not the same are Religion, is incorrect.  Both are covered equally in the same line of the Charter. 

I understand that, but that is not what I was referring to. I was referring to the populaces beliefs on the two topics. The new religion based schools idea was extremely unpopular, whereas the race-based school was just mildly popular enough to barely pass.

 

[Gimpy]

I also wanted to point out another issue with this school as to a reason why I don't think it will be effective. (I put it in a separate post to differentiate it from my rebuttals)

This school could be very helpful to the students attending it, but once the bell rings at 3pm the school washes their hands of the children. The most dangerous time for the development of these children are from 3pm to 6pm, the time directly after school until their parents get home. It seems as if most of the children attending will be latchkey kids and without parental influence or other adults around these children will be free to get into trouble and negate everything that the school has taught them.

 

[Rodahn]

I also wanted to point out another issue with this school as to a reason why I don't think it will be effective. (I put it in a separate post to differentiate it from my rebuttals)

This school could be very helpful to the students attending it, but once the bell rings at 3pm the school washes their hands of the children. The most dangerous time for the development of these children are from 3pm to 6pm, the time directly after school until their parents get home. It seems as if most of the children attending will be latchkey kids and without parental influence or other adults around these children will be free to get into trouble and negate everything that the school has taught them.

Sorry; I don't buy that one bit, I and many of my generation were "latchkey kids" and we turned out to be just fine for the most part.

 

[Gimpy]

Sorry; I don't buy that one bit, I and many of my generation were "latchkey kids" and we turned out to be just fine for the most part.

Are you African-Canadian? Were you raised in an area where gang-violence is prevalent? The gangs become big brother figures to these children who in turn join the gangs. Its a much different way of life these days than it was 30-40 years ago. When you were a child there weren't gangs like there are today. Back then you could settle disputes with a fist-fight or even with a knife, nowadays people settle problems with guns and the children are afraid of that and they join the gangs for protection. You also say for the most part, that means that some didn't turn out well and that is what I'm referring to, some children will end up joining the gangs, not the majority, but definitely some will.

I still live in an area where gang-violence is active. I went to a school where 50% of the students were in gangs. I'll admit I wasn't around 30-40 years ago, but have heard stories from my parents, but I've seen the effects first-hand of gang violence throughout the city. Its not pleasant walking home from school and seeing a group of 10 people walking behind you, feeling scared for what could happen. Even now I still always check my back walking out at night, I don't feel very safe outdoors at night anymore and its a product of the gang violence.

 

[Roy Harding]

Are you African-Canadian? Were you raised in an area where gang-violence is prevalent? The gangs become big brother figures to these children who in turn join the gangs. Its a much different way of life these days than it was 30-40 years ago. When you were a child there weren't gangs like there are today. Back then you could settle disputes with a fist-fight or even with a knife, nowadays people settle problems with guns and the children are afraid of that and they join the gangs for protection. You also say for the most part, that means that some didn't turn out well and that is what I'm referring to, some children will end up joining the gangs, not the majority, but definitely some will.

I still live in an area where gang-violence is active. I went to a school where 50% of the students were in gangs. I'll admit I wasn't around 30-40 years ago, but have heard stories from my parents, but I've seen the effects first-hand of gang violence throughout the city. Its not pleasant walking home from school and seeing a group of 10 people walking behind you, feeling scared for what could happen. Even now I still always check my back walking out at night, I don't feel very safe outdoors at night anymore and its a product of the gang violence.

I reject your premise that I need to be "African-Canadian" to understand the problems.  By your logic, I'm not entitled to an opinion regarding anything but Anglo/Scots/Irish/Polish Jew Canadians - because that's the demographic to which I happen to belong.