Therapeutic Cannabis use

[Fishbone Jones]

Maybe you misunderstand. I'm not disagreeing with you. It's just that before I impinge on some doctors' ethics or efficiency, I'd just like some formal numbers or reports. I don't think that's asking a lot. Do you?

My doctor started me out small. I had a line to him all the time if I had questions or concerns. I had a session every three months where we would talk about it and change what we thought needed changing. So, when people talk about doctor shopping or bad ethics as all encompassing to their narrative, I just want to see what they are basing their opinion on so I can look at it and draw my own conclusions. Is that not fair?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Maybe you misunderstand. I'm not disagreeing with you. It's just that before I impinge on some doctors' ethics or efficiency, I'd just like some formal numbers or reports. I don't think that's asking a lot. Do you?

My doctor started me out small. I had a line to him all the time if I had questions or concerns. I had a session every three months where we would talk about it and change what we thought needed changing. So, when people talk about doctor shopping or bad ethics as all encompassing to their narrative, I just want to see what they are basing their opinion on so I can look at it and draw my own conclusions. Is that not fair?

Reading first hand accounts online (and people I know)  it seems like someone like me could read some google, drop a couple dollars, speak with a doctor I've never met before  for 5 minutes and walk away with a MMJ prescription.  I've even read one dispensary in TO will give it out to someone with a note from a chiropractor.

By comparison it seems like cf members like yourself have a hell of a lot more hoops to jump through to get it prescribed through VAC.

 

[Nudibranch]

Ah. Yes, misunderstood.

But being as we're less than 2 yrs under the doctor-"led" (as opposed to through Health Canada licensing of users) rx of MM, such reporting will take time. Right now there isn't even much guidance on what one should do.

However, given the paucity of research and when lacking credible medical evidence, conservative prescribing and following what guidelines there are from provincial and national medical regulatory bodies is clearly indicated.
Those docs prescribing a starting dose of 10g/day are pretty much doing the opposite of that.

That just so happens to be the compensated daily max. This kind of pattern isn't exactly unknown in the clinical world, or limited to potentially addictive meds - it's seen in initial assessments for MVA victims for whiplash, for ex, when the insurance compensation is capped at $x. Somehow all patients seem to need $x of treatment...in state A; in state B, where it's capped at $y, they require $y.

Jarnhamar - and are these (anecdotal to be fair) accounts the way in which you believe substances like MM ought to be prescribed?
You're describing less diligence than I'd get for some over the counter meds from the pharmacist. We as a society need to decide - is this serious medical treatment that ought to be handled like any other serious medical treatment, or should you be able to buy it like alcohol? In which case, please for the love of the gods keep docs out of it.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Can a product not be both medicinal and recreational? It'll soon be available for recreational use anyway.

Reading first hand accounts online (and people I know)  it seems like someone like me could read some google, drop a couple dollars, speak with a doctor I've never met before  for 5 minutes and walk away with a MMJ prescription.  I've even read one dispensary in TO will give it out to someone with a note from a chiropractor.

By comparison it seems like cf members like yourself have a hell of a lot more hoops to jump through to get it prescribed through VAC.

You probably could. My whole point is there is nothing out there showing how wide spread, or not, the problem is. Without it, we can't say it's something that requires immediate attention or not. Let's not forget how much of a problem it is with narcotics and how little they've been able to stop it. Perhaps, money would be better spent on actual studies on all the chemicals, and their effects, contained in cannabis, instead of trying to police doctors for something that may be relatively harmless.

 

[PuckChaser]

Alcohol used to be both, then real science proved it with limited medicinal value. Same thing with cocaine. Opiates have a variety of medical uses but are highly addictive and used illegally as a recreation drug. How do you both regulate something as a legitimate medicine and in the store down the street anyone can buy however much they want to smoke/eat?

Its funny you suggest actual studies and research on MMJ. The vast majority of people asking questions about the current policy here concur with more science needed line, but are immediately told they are just prohibitionists and burned at the stake.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

.
How do you both regulate something as a legitimate medicine and in the store down the street anyone can buy however much they want to smoke/eat?

You mean like Aspirin?

 

[Stoker]

Alcohol used to be both, then real science proved it with limited medicinal value. Same thing with cocaine. Opiates have a variety of medical uses but are highly addictive and used illegally as a recreation drug. How do you both regulate something as a legitimate medicine and in the store down the street anyone can buy however much they want to smoke/eat?

Its funny you suggest actual studies and research on MMJ. The vast majority of people asking questions about the current policy here concur with more science needed line, but are immediately told they are just prohibitionists and burned at the stake.

They are the same people who think its ok to drive after consuming Cannabis and it somehow doesn't affect them :

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Keep it on the topic folks.

 

[Nudibranch]

You mean like Aspirin?

Aspirin is an OTC med - you don't need it prescribed by anyone, and for the most part its cost comes out of pocket (exception being CAF with our OTC cards and base pharmacies, the OTC coverage Native Canadians have, etc).

Sure, it could be treated as an OTC. If Jarnhamar's example of how it's rx outside of VAC is true, it essentially already is - the rx is merely an admin rubber stamp.
So take the physician out of it and let people buy it like aspirin and Tylenol.

 

[Stoker]

They are the same people who think its ok to drive after consuming Cannabis and it somehow doesn't affect them :

What I want to know that obviously some pers medicate quite a bit during the day and reeceguy as the SME here may being able to comment. What do people who choose to or have to medicate heavily do in regards to driving? I imagine the same as drinking, to stop sometime before they drive like alcohol?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Aspirin is an OTC med - you don't need it prescribed by anyone, and for the most part its cost comes out of pocket (exception being CAF with our OTC cards and base pharmacies, the OTC coverage Native Canadians have, etc).

Sure, it could be treated as an OTC. If Jarnhamar's example of how it's rx outside of VAC is true, it essentially already is - the rx is merely an admin rubber stamp.

It's still " legitimate medicine".

The RX is mostly just a rubber stamp anyways.  Pretty sure I could go see a Doctor tomorrow about my chronic xxxxx pain and have a prescription for something addicting by the afternoon.

So take the physician out of it and let people buy it like aspirin and Tylenol.

Like this?  I'm certainly not ready for that....

 

[Fishbone Jones]

They are the same people who think its ok to drive after consuming Cannabis and it somehow doesn't affect them :

I'm interested in knowing where you came up with the truth for this statement?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

What I want to know that obviously some pers medicate quite a bit during the day and reeceguy as the SME here may being able to comment. What do people who choose to or have to medicate heavily do in regards to driving? I imagine the same as drinking, to stop sometime before they drive like alcohol?

Sorry, didn't read down far enough before replying to you above.

I did some checking and, obviously, there's not a lot out there on the subject as far as actually driving medicated. They have to establish a base line first. The .08 limit took years to settle on that amount. I expect it'll likely be the same. The problem they'll likely run into is the different chemicals in cannabis. Someone ingesting high THC strains will likely be impaired. THC is the psychoactive drug in cannabis. If a person was using a CBD dominant strain they likely wouldn't be high because in pure CBD strains there is little to no THC. So a test would have to be developed that only takes THC blood levels into account.

But back to the question. I don't know anyone that medicates and drives. I don't know how wide spread the problem is. Not a lot of info out there right now. We'll likely be inundated with news reports shortly after it's legalized though. I'm sure there's court challenges being prepared as we speak. So, yeah, treat the person at the party like someone that drank too much. It'll be easier though. Drunks get belligerent. Cannabis users just get more calm and copacetic. Also, alcohol may intensify the high without a rise in amount. Hope that answered the question.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I found it interesting that VAC says MC is too expensive and pricing should be no more than $8.50 per, where, retail, in USD, is $12.00/ gm, that's +/- $16.00 CAD before HST, $18.00 CAD after taxes and ON SALE.

Now, the Feds think $8.50 CAD/ gm is a fair price. How will this square when Wynne decides on $20/gm at the LCBO. Here's the problem though. The street dealers will undercut that price in a New York minute and the LCBO has nothing but stale weed on their shelves.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I found it interesting that VAC says MC is too expensive and pricing should be no more than $8.50 per, where, retail, in USD, is $12.00/ gm, that's +/- $16.00 CAD before HST, $18.00 CAD after taxes and ON SALE.

Now, the Feds think $8.50 CAD/ gm is a fair price. How will this square when Wynne decides on $20/gm at the LCBO. Here's the problem though. The street dealers will undercut that price in a New York minute and the LCBO has nothing but stale weed on their shelves.

Hard to say,......hard to find moonshine dealers in this town.

 

[Lumber]

Hard to say,......hard to find moonshine dealers in this town.

Yes, but:

1. It's easier to grow cannabis than it is to make moonshine. Pot has been found growing wild with no care at all. You could just walk up and take it; can't grow moonshine on trees; and
2. Moonshine done badly can kill you; not so cannabis.

In summary, the possibility of black market cannabis is much higher than black market alcohol.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Hard to say,......hard to find moonshine dealers in this town.

Just ask the right people

 

[Stoker]

I found it interesting that VAC says MC is too expensive and pricing should be no more than $8.50 per, where, retail, in USD, is $12.00/ gm, that's +/- $16.00 CAD before HST, $18.00 CAD after taxes and ON SALE.

Now, the Feds think $8.50 CAD/ gm is a fair price. How will this square when Wynne decides on $20/gm at the LCBO. Here's the problem though. The street dealers will undercut that price in a New York minute and the LCBO has nothing but stale weed on their shelves.

I think more importantly will I be able to get it on ship as my duty free?

 

[George Wallace]

I found it interesting that VAC says MC is too expensive and pricing should be no more than $8.50 per, where, retail, in USD, is $12.00/ gm, that's +/- $16.00 CAD before HST, $18.00 CAD after taxes and ON SALE.

Now, the Feds think $8.50 CAD/ gm is a fair price. How will this square when Wynne decides on $20/gm at the LCBO. Here's the problem though. The street dealers will undercut that price in a New York minute and the LCBO has nothing but stale weed on their shelves.

As a former analyst, I foresee Mail Heists in the future, where MM shipments through Canada Post are hijacked.  :nod:

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Yes, but:

1. It's easier to grow cannabis than it is to make moonshine. Pot has been found growing wild with no care at all. You could just walk up and take it; can't grow moonshine on trees; and
2. Moonshine done badly can kill you; not so cannabis.

In summary, the possibility of black market cannabis is much higher than black market alcohol.

There's more to growing than sticking a seed in the dirt. Moonshine is easy to make.......and safely. You just need to know what you're doing. Of course black market weed is more available. There was a time though, in my lifetime, where just about everyone made their own booze. Beer, wine, brandy, schnapps, People today would rather shop than spend time making it. That is the only reason you don't see much. That and the art is becoming lost. There's also a lot more distilling going on than people think. It's just that no one really talks about it unless your involved. But the thread isn't about the availability of alcohol.

You'd be darn lucky to come a cross a wild plant here and there is no telling the quality. You also need to be able to identify whether it's male or female. Indica or sativa? What are the genetics? Is it good for insomnia or does it keep you focused? There are tons of variables to consider when you find wild cannabis. Now if you find a female indica plant and all you want is to get high,  giggle and eat lots of chips, you'll probably be fine with your discovery.