The War of 1812 Merged Thread

[a_majoor]

To get this going as a "real" project rather than an interesting discussion, perhaps the work of Bill Smy and others should be collected and forwarded to the Regimental Senates and Honourary Colonels of the suggested units. As well, links to local historical societies and other public opinion makers should be sought out. Planning for ceremonies to take place in 2012 really needs to start now.

This also has to be sold carefully to the affected units. Lincoln and Welland Regiment soldiers take it as gospel that they are decended from Butler's Rangers, which may be true in a historical sense, but not in an official manner as prescribed by the act of 1855. It would be very sad if the newer members of the listed units got revved up over the "new" battle honours only to have cold water thrown on the idea.

Overall, this seems to be a very good initiative, which could spawn a lot of positive side effects, such as a revival in interest in that period of Canadian history, and a closer bond between the reserve units and the local population.

 

[GGboy]

GGBoy: maybe he meant "Embodied Militia" not Incorporated Militia.

Hmmm ... perhaps, but mixing up the 1812 Incorporated Militia of Upper Canada with the 1837 battalions is a common mistake even among historians.
Further the point about linking the 1812 militia to modern units, in 1812 the militia was organized on a county by county basis. So that would be one obvious geographical link to certain modern regiments. Some of the county militias were called out so often (usually in response to raids by the Yanks) that by 1814 they were actually pretty effective fighting units. The Norfolk militia and Lincoln militia battalions were good examples of this ... some of them even got to the point where they had actual uniforms for their officers 

 

[Gayson]

QYRANG did not fight in the war of 1812 or burn down the white house as an actual formed body of York or Queens Rangers.

The Queens Rangers were disbanded in 1802.   In 1812 the York militia was formed to help defend Canada.   I believe the unit claims historicial significance to this because the York militia was formed at the same place where the Queens Rangers once existed so likely many members of the Queens Rangers served in the York militia (A regiment is defined by its soldiers IMO.

I'm pretty sure the York Militia was involved with the capture of Detroit and Queenston.   The White house, I am not sure.

Later in the year 1837 this milita had undergone another reorganization and became known as the Queens Rangers.   This unit was the one that responded to Mackenzies rebellion.

The Queens Rangers were then disbanded in 1848.

In 1866 the 12th York Infantry battalion was formed, which later was renamed "York Rangers".   This regiment fought in ww1 as Infantry soldiers.   Following ww1 the unit had 2 battalions which were seperated, one going to York, the other to Aurora.   The York battalion merged with the West Toronto Regiment to form the Queens Rangers.   Shortly after government cutbacks saw the amalgamation of the Queens and York Rangers to form the Queens York Rangers.   The 1st American part was givien by the King of England following ww1 to connect the current regiment with the old.   This title as well as various family connections throughout regimental history (The Jarvis family which Jarvis st is named after for example) is the reasoning behind the long history.

So, did the Queens York Rangers fight in the battle in 1813 when the white house was burned? No.  However some members of the York Militia who had fought at detroit and queenston were members of the Queens Rangers 10 years prior.

 
History is something that people interperete.   I haven't been in QY RANG for that long of the period and there are people in the Unit who know a LOT more about our history than me.   The above is just my interpretation of my units history (according to documentation I have read).

 

[Bill Smy]

J Gayson stated: "However this battle is a part of our history since the Regiment that did burn the white house was an ancestor to my unit made of men whom had served with the title "Queens Ranger" 10 years previously."

Since there were no Canadian units in the expedition, exactly what "ancestor to my unit" are you referiong to?

 

[Jonny Boy]

QYRANG did not fight in the war of 1812 or burn down the white house as an actual formed body of York or Queens Rangers.

The Queens Rangers were disbanded in 1802.   In 1812 the York militia was formed to help defend Canada.   I believe the unit claims historicial significance to this because the York militia was formed at the same place where the Queens Rangers once existed so likely many members of the Queens Rangers served in the York militia (A regiment is defined by its soldiers IMO.

I'm pretty sure the York Militia was involved with the capture of Detroit and Queenston.   The White house, I am not sure.

Later in the year 1837 this milita had undergone another reorganization and became known as the Queens Rangers.   This unit was the one that responded to Mackenzies rebellion.

The Queens Rangers were then disbanded in 1848.

In 1866 the 12th York Infantry battalion was formed, which later was renamed "York Rangers".   This regiment fought in ww1 as Infantry soldiers.   Following ww1 the unit had 2 battalions which were seperated, one going to York, the other to Aurora.   The York battalion merged with the West Toronto Regiment to form the Queens Rangers.   Shortly after government cutbacks saw the amalgamation of the Queens and York Rangers to form the Queens York Rangers.   The 1st American part was givien by the King of England following ww1 to connect the current regiment with the old.   This title as well as various family connections throughout regimental history (The Jarvis family which Jarvis st is named after for example) is the reasoning behind the long history.

So, did the Queens York Rangers fight in the battle in 1813 when the white house was burned? No.   However this battle is a part of our history since the Regiment that did burn the white house was an ancestor to my unit made of men whom had served with the title "Queens Ranger" 10 years previously.

History is something that people interperete.   I haven't been in QY RANG for that long of the period and there are people in the Unit who know a LOT more about our history than me.   The above is just my interpretation of my units history (according to documentation I have read).

the york militia is the same as the york rangers. they did fight in queenstonhights. the queens york rangers did not become the QYR untill the 1930's. there were 2 different regiments the queens rangers and the york militia. they are both part of the qyr history.  

also the title 1st american regiment was not given following WW1 it was given to the queens rangers in 1779.

you should go to your regiments official website and look under history than klick on   battle honours and campains.

i am a a cadet in the 337 QYR in toronto. i have been in it for about 3 years and i am always studying the history of the york rangers and the queens rangers.

 

[GGboy]

the york militia is the same as the york rangers. they did fight in queenstonhights.

Sorry cadet, but the York Militia (aka York Volunteers and a few other names) are NOT the same as the York Rangers, let alone the QYR. The York Militia was formed circa 1810 when the threat from south of the border was becoming obvious and was very much an ad hoc militia unit. It did send several companies to fight at Queenston, and at Detroit in 1812 but its most important contribution to the 1812-14 war was in the units that were "spun off" from it, including Button's Troop (distant ancestor of the GGHG) which was later amalgamated with other militia cavalry to form the Niagara Lt. Dragoons and the Inc. Militia of Upper Canada, arguably Canada's first "regular" infantry battalion.
The York Militia saw limited action after 1812, primarily during the two American raids on York in the spring of 1813.

 

[Matt_Fisher]

They marched inland, scattered the hasty US defense at the Battle of Bladensburg (rudely referred to by the British as the "Bladensburg Races" due the speed with which US troops buggered off), then got to work making a mess of Washington.

While the British forces did prevail at Bladensburg and Washington was subsequently burnt, I must point out that not all the US forces simply "buggered off" as part of the 'Bladensburg Races'.

A force of some 400 Marines and sailors led by Commodore Joshua Barney staunchly held their section of the line while the British pressed.  It was not until the rest of the US line had retreated that the Marines began a rear guard action that resulted in saving the US forces from a complete rout.  Commodore Barney was captured during the battle and later paroled by the British due to his bravery shown.

When the British arrived in Washington they burnt every building in the town with the exception of one:  The home of the Marine Corps' Commandant.  No official reason has ever been found as to why this building was spared, but it is widely believed that it was due to the bravery exhibited by the Marines at Bladensburg.

 

[Gayson]

J Gayson stated: "However this battle is a part of our history since the Regiment that did burn the white house was an ancestor to my unit made of men whom had served with the title "Queens Ranger" 10 years previously."

Since there were no Canadian units in the expedition, exactly what "ancestor to my unit" are you referiong to?

I said that the York militia was an ancestor.   In the 3rd line of my post I said that I was unsure wether the York militia fought in that expedition or not.

[EDIT] Oops, my mistake, I got some key battles mixed up in that paragraph  :'(

Hutch

Hutch, you are mistaken.   The Queens Rangers that fought in the American Revolution did get the title 1st American, however that regiment was disbanded at the end of the war.  

The York Rangers were given the title 1st American by the king following ww1 to connect the past with the present.  

This is not mentioned on the website, which is why I think you are mistaken (You must have done a LOT of research   : ).

If you want to learn more about my units history I suggest you either buy the book, get a copy of the History package given out on the QL4/DP2 course or ask some troops in the unit.

 

[GGboy]

When the British arrived in Washington they burnt every building in the town with the exception of one:   The home of the Marine Corps' Commandant.   No official reason has ever been found as to why this building was spared, but it is widely believed that it was due to the bravery exhibited by the Marines at Bladensburg.

You're quite right about Capt. Barney's brave stand at Bladenburg, but you're mistaken about the extent of the burning of Washington. The British were quite punctilious about burning only public buildings in the U.S. capital, although that included a lot of real estate. The exception was buildings from which snipers occasionally took pot-shots at the British, which were systematically razed to the ground.
There's an excellent description of the action at http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/washingtonsack.htm
The British behaviour was in marked contrast to the Americans' in York in 1813 (practically the whole burg burned and/or looted) and on the Niagara Peninsula in 1814 (entire towns or villages reduced to rubble).

 

[Matt_Fisher]

What must be realized though, is that at that point in time Washington, D.C. was not nearly the city that York was.  Pretty much every building and house in the city were connected with the government in some way, so as a result, the destruction was still a widespread sack, not so much a sparing of the majority of the city.  When the British left to continue the campaign north to Baltimore, Washington for the most part lay as a smoking ruin.

 

[GGboy]

When the British left to continue the campaign north to Baltimore, Washington for the most part lay as a smoking ruin.

You say that as if it were a negative thing  ;D
Tell you what: given most Canadians' feelings about Toronto and many Americans' feelings about Washington let's make a deal. We'll burn Washington again if you promise to burn down Toronto ...

 

[GGHG_Cadet]

GGBoy, Button's Troop did not become Infantry. After several different units the troop amalgamated with Dennison's troop to become the Governor General's Body Guard.

 

[Jonny Boy]

Hutch

Hutch, you are mistaken.  The Queens Rangers that fought in the American Revolution did get the title 1st American, however that regiment was disbanded at the end of the war. 

The York Rangers were given the title 1st American by the king following ww1 to connect the past with the present. 

This is not mentioned on the website, which is why I think you are mistaken (You must have done a LOT of research  : ).

If you want to learn more about my units history I suggest you either buy the book, get a copy of the History package given out on the QL4/DP2 course or ask some troops in the unit.



that makes not sense though. the york rangers were not 1st american. they wernt even an american regiment. they were formed in york. i am not saying that they didnt get the title of 1st american i am just saying they wernt accually the 1st american regiment th QY were.

i will admit that i have done a lot of reserch but boy i got confused a lot. it is always switching between the york ranger and the queens rangers. i have ben putting it all togeather over the past couple of years and it is noe making more sense. this whole board has sorted so much out for me thanx everyone.

oh and i would love to get the book. the gig green one right?  i was at the funeral of the major that wrote that book. i think he was the first CO of 337

 

[Michael OLeary]

Try these pages at Regiments.org to help build an understanding of the QYRang's lineage (unoffciial and official) through the units of the pre-Confederation militia and the Non Permanent Active Militia after Confederation:

The York Rangers
http://regiments.org/regiments/na-canada/volmil/on-inf/012york.htm

The Queen's Rangers (1st American Regiment)
http://regiments.org/regiments/na-canada/volmil/on-inf/012qrang.htm

The Queen's York Rangers (1st American Regiment) (M.G.)
http://regiments.org/regiments/na-canada/volmil/on-inf/936qyran.htm

 

[Gayson]

Hutch.  the American tag was added to 5 regiments, not because of where they were formed but because they fought for the British in the American Revolution.  The Queens Rangers were given the title as the 1st of the 5 American Regiments due to their excellent service during the revolution.

The York Rangers were given this title following ww1.  I think you are confused because the York Rangers of this time were made of 2 battalions, 1 which was placed in in Toronto and merged with the West Toronto Regiment to form the Queens Rangers.  The York Rangers stayed in Aurora.  These 2 battalions formed the regiment The Queens York Rangers.

You are confusing the newer Queens Rangers which were spun of the York Rangers with the original Queens Rangers.

Once the Queens and York Rangers became the Queens York Rangers, the king gave the unit the honor of 1st American, conecting the past with the present.

 

[pbi]

What must be realized though, is that at that point in time Washington, D.C. was not nearly the city that York was

Then it must have been pretty miniscule! York was a village when it was captured.

Cheers

 

[Jonny Boy]

Hutch.   the American tag was added to 5 regiments, not because of where they were formed but because they fought for the British in the American Revolution.   The Queens Rangers were given the title as the 1st of the 5 American Regiments due to their excellent service during the revolution.

The York Rangers were given this title following ww1.   I think you are confused because the York Rangers of this time were made of 2 battalions, 1 which was placed in in Toronto and merged with the West Toronto Regiment to form the Queens Rangers.   The York Rangers stayed in Aurora.   These 2 battalions formed the regiment The Queens York Rangers.

You are confusing the newer Queens Rangers which were spun of the York Rangers with the original Queens Rangers.

Once the Queens and York Rangers became the Queens York Rangers, the king gave the unit the honor of 1st American, conecting the past with the present.

J. Gayson-

ok thats cool didnt knw that. i guess i still have some reserch to do on the regement still . so thank you
that is very interesting. i always thought that the only reiment that got the title of 1st american regiment was the queens rangers.

 

[Gayson]

Qyrang was the only one that got 1st american.  The others got 2nd, 3rd american and so forth.

 

[Jonny Boy]

oh ok that makes a lot more sense. i thought you were saying that they all got the title 1st american. well glad we got that all sorted out

 

[Lineman052]

Great topic, it will be a large undertaking just to research each Regiment in Ontario and Quebec and to check the Linages is massive.  However I have done some of this linage work, for example The Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment Linage goes back to pre-1812.  Some Regts in Belleville for instance have disappeared like the 34th Bty early 1930's to 1954 that was part of the 9th Anti Air Arty Regt (M) and the Argyl Light Infantry 1920-1954.  The Hastings and Prince Edward Regt (HASTY PEES) was formed from the 16th Prince Edward Regt (1800-1920) original name The Regt of Prince Edward (Sedentry Militia) and the 49th Regiment Hastings Rifles(1804-1920) original name The Regt of Hastings (Sedentry Militia) all absorded in 1920.  The Hasty Pees absorbed the Argyl Light Infantry/34th Bty/Midland Regt(Northumberland and Durham) 1920-1954 with linages from The Northumberland Regt (1866-1920) and The Durham Regt (1793-1920) which was part of the Sedentry Militia/50th Hvy Anti Air Arty Regt.  It is Known that at 50+ members of the Regt of Prince Edward and 70+ members of the Regt of Hastings fought in the 1812-1814 War as companies.