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Yes, Canada did it, The US did it, Australia and New Zealand did it.
The Haiti Super Thread- Merged
- Thread starter Sh0rtbUs
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I‘m with Marauder. I think imperialism is the way to go. They have obviously proven to the world that they can not take care of themselves, and thus provide regional instability and become a national security risk. I say we take ‘em over and put ‘em on a short leash.
Either that or let them wipe themselves out. No half measures here, won‘t fix a thing.
Either that or let them wipe themselves out. No half measures here, won‘t fix a thing.
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Your missing my point, I know it‘s been done. The point is, in todays society (not a hundred or two hundred years ago) are we willing to watch a country go through the same growing pains we went through? Are you prepared to watch a dozen more Rwanda‘s on the six o‘clock news just so fifty years down the road these people will finally figure it out?
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Yes, as mentioned, we have been their twice already, and they still have problems. They need to sort themselves out before he can help them. Unless you want to commit to staying their for 10-20 years, with some magical troops you just dreamed up, cause we don‘t have the resources to send any significant type of force.
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Gate_guard,
Yes maybe what I am proposing is to let them sort out democracy for themselves. I do believe that post colonial periods are very very trying on a country. We struggled through that not very long ago and came close to stumbling more than once. Throw into that mixture underdevelopment, poverty and corruption and you have terrible problems. Nigeria, Sudan, Ethiopia, Rwanda, Ivory Coast and Haiti (a recurring theme?) all have been experiencing this case. However it took us and the USA a long time to get the hang of democracy and how it works. I don‘t have a problem stepping in to prevent a humanitarian crisis if it develops.
But what I am about to say is going to be cold, cruel and will no doubt bring up heaps of abuse on my head but Haiti will have to suffer in order to get to where they want to be. Nothing in life is easy and all great things must be achieved with toil and pain. Lives will be lost but if they don‘t sink into hellish savagery they will achieve it. If they do then I have no problems boarding an Airbus and heading south....
As long as my back is covered by infanteer or marauder while I pull shifts in C/S 0.
Slainte,
Yes maybe what I am proposing is to let them sort out democracy for themselves. I do believe that post colonial periods are very very trying on a country. We struggled through that not very long ago and came close to stumbling more than once. Throw into that mixture underdevelopment, poverty and corruption and you have terrible problems. Nigeria, Sudan, Ethiopia, Rwanda, Ivory Coast and Haiti (a recurring theme?) all have been experiencing this case. However it took us and the USA a long time to get the hang of democracy and how it works. I don‘t have a problem stepping in to prevent a humanitarian crisis if it develops.
But what I am about to say is going to be cold, cruel and will no doubt bring up heaps of abuse on my head but Haiti will have to suffer in order to get to where they want to be. Nothing in life is easy and all great things must be achieved with toil and pain. Lives will be lost but if they don‘t sink into hellish savagery they will achieve it. If they do then I have no problems boarding an Airbus and heading south....
As long as my back is covered by infanteer or marauder while I pull shifts in C/S 0.
Slainte,
I know someone who‘s trying to make a big difference and has even gone to Haiti in all this. Her name is Esther Pauls and she owns 2 stores called the Runner‘s Den here in Hamilton. Each year she holds the Race For Haiti. All the money that is earned goes right to Haiti, and is used for building orphanages, schools and playgrounds and also used to feed the hungry and shelter those out on the streets.
If you don‘t want to just sit here and fret over it you can run the race come October, or if you‘re in the Hamilton area stop by the Runner‘s Den and make a donation. I‘ll post the adresses for both stores later.
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If there were to be any international force sent down there, right now Canada would be the last place I would go looking for any long term commitment of troops. That really isn‘t the issue.
Padraig,
I do see your point of view, I just don‘t see todays society (not just the Canadian public, but American, British, etc) willing to let such atrocities occur. We, as a Western society, aren‘t exactly known for our future thinking mentality. But we have discovered that blood is the price of freedom and peace. Our problem is that many of these countries have yet to figure that out. I do agree that the only way for some of these countries to grow past their current situation is to let them learn the hard way.
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yes Canada is Generally know as Peace keepers, But that all aside, we are still bloody soldiers and are trained to fight and Protect the innocent. We are soldiers first, Peace keepers second.
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Growing Pain‘s?!!!!
Haiti has had 200yrs to grow!!!
Haiti was the first Independent all Black country in the Caribbean,never mind the world when they revolted against the French and won their independence way back in 1804 under Toussaint L‘OUVERTURE.
What‘s needed is to get rid of the corruption and those who perpetuate it!
To make this country to work is that we go in and don‘t leave for 20yrs or more to teach and set thing‘s right and introduce buisness and light industry as the country has very little resource‘s left.
Ever seen a Sat.photo of Hispaniola (name of the whole Island)Haiti is bare while the Dominican Rep. is lush with tree‘s.
It‘s going to take a whole re education of at least 2 generation‘s to correct 200yrs of wrong‘s.
Haiti has had 200yrs to grow!!!
Haiti was the first Independent all Black country in the Caribbean,never mind the world when they revolted against the French and won their independence way back in 1804 under Toussaint L‘OUVERTURE.
What‘s needed is to get rid of the corruption and those who perpetuate it!
To make this country to work is that we go in and don‘t leave for 20yrs or more to teach and set thing‘s right and introduce buisness and light industry as the country has very little resource‘s left.
Ever seen a Sat.photo of Hispaniola (name of the whole Island)Haiti is bare while the Dominican Rep. is lush with tree‘s.
It‘s going to take a whole re education of at least 2 generation‘s to correct 200yrs of wrong‘s.
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God forbid, if we did an operation there that the same crisis as Mogadisgu back in 93 happen again, they had pretty much the same scenario. ( Im not sure if it was 93 oh well)
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Sapper Earl,
If you can show me a foolproof way of ridding the world of corruption, while keeping some semblence of freedom, I‘m all for it. I take it you propose we essentially take over the country and build it in our image. Who decides that Haiti is worth it? What about all the other third world nations that are struggling to survive? Do you propose we teach them as well? Sounds quite expensive. Your intentions are noble, and on a fundamental scale I agree with you, but it‘s easier said than done.
If you can show me a foolproof way of ridding the world of corruption, while keeping some semblence of freedom, I‘m all for it. I take it you propose we essentially take over the country and build it in our image. Who decides that Haiti is worth it? What about all the other third world nations that are struggling to survive? Do you propose we teach them as well? Sounds quite expensive. Your intentions are noble, and on a fundamental scale I agree with you, but it‘s easier said than done.
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Gate Guard,yes we have corruption that we see and don‘t even see!!
But we don‘t run amoke and rape,pillage but then again we have grown as a Nation.
They were a nation before us.
My post was a general over all solution not a defined solution,yes I‘ve been in Bosnia also(97) and saw the scam‘s going on even our worker‘s pointed them out to us but at that time it was not under our mandate to interdict civil crime as that came under the U.N. Police!
Maybe it‘s time to give the Military the power to hunt down and try and stop the Orginised crime with civil help in those Nation‘s we are helping.
Yes it‘s conundrum!
T
tmbluesbflat
Guest
Corruption? Canada can teach the world a few things about corruption, the Auditor Generals report sheds a small light on much corruption. The US sets the bar for corruption in the developed world. I am sorry, we have hands much to dirty to be telling anybody anything about ethics, morality or any other forms of corruption. We need to clean house here, big time!
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I think Canada should have an obligation to help any country in need, WHY? because we have it much better then almost every toher country.
However, if we do send troops over, i cant see it being very effective with the limited resources in troops we currently have.
However, if we do send troops over, i cant see it being very effective with the limited resources in troops we currently have.
This is just off the CP Newswire:
OTTAWA -- Canada is sending soldiers to Haiti.
A military spokesman says a small force, likely members of Canada‘s special unit, Joint Task Force 2, has been deployed to secure Canadian embassy staff in the Haitian capital of Port au Prince.
They are to join a small number of Canadian forces planners already in the war-ravaged country, where they are preparing the potential evacuation of over one-thousand Canadians.
OTTAWA -- Canada is sending soldiers to Haiti.
A military spokesman says a small force, likely members of Canada‘s special unit, Joint Task Force 2, has been deployed to secure Canadian embassy staff in the Haitian capital of Port au Prince.
They are to join a small number of Canadian forces planners already in the war-ravaged country, where they are preparing the potential evacuation of over one-thousand Canadians.
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Update to NMPeters article
http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=599dc8c4-fcca-4449-9934-a03344454eef
Canadian troops to protect embassy in Haiti
February 25, 2004
A small force of Canadian troops, likely members of the special operations unit Joint Task Force 2, is on its way to Haiti to protect embassy staff.
They will join a few Canadian Forces planners already in the war-ravaged country preparing the potential evacuation of over 1,000 Canadians, Maj. Mike Audette said Wednesday.
He would not say when the troops would arrive in the capital of Port-au-Prince, or if they had already arrived.
"We have dispatched CF members to assist the embassy in Haiti with security measures," Audette said. "We are not in a position to discuss the composition or numbers of security staff who have been dispatched."
The soldiers were sent after the Department of Foreign Affairs ``asked for the provision of personnel to assist with security measures for the embassy and its staff.‘‘
A larger contingent of Canadian soldiers, but smaller than a 120-member company, has been put on alert and could depart to further secure the safety of embassy staff and other Canadian citizens in a matter of hours, said Audette.
Members of 2nd Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment, in Gagetown, N.B., along with elements of the Joint Operations Group out of Kingston, Ont., and a Hercules aircraft in Trenton, Ont., have been put on standby, he said.
French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin on Wednesday issued a statement calling for an "immediate" international civilian force to restore order in Haiti, where a rebellion threatens to topple President Jean-Baptiste Aristide.
France also said it wants human rights observers to be sent to the Caribbean country and a "long term" engagement of international aid aimed at reconstructing Haiti‘s dismal social and economic situation.
U.S. Marines were escorting foreigners trying to flee Haiti‘s capital Wednesday as looting broke out and opposition leaders urged a "timely and orderly" departure of the beleaguered president.
Aristide loyalists built dozens of flaming barricades, blocking roads all over the city and some leading to the airport.
Washington was encouraging the international community to provide a strong security presence in Haiti as America and its allies continued to try to achieve a political solution to the island nation‘s escalating violence.
On Tuesday, five Canadian Forces members arrived in Port-au-Prince to assist the Canadian embassy with planning the evacuation of Canadians should the situation worsen.
Ottawa has authorized the departure of non-essential staff from the embassy and all dependants of Canadian government personnel. Overall, there are about 30,000 foreigners in Haiti, some 20,000 of them Americans.
http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=599dc8c4-fcca-4449-9934-a03344454eef
Canadian troops to protect embassy in Haiti
February 25, 2004
A small force of Canadian troops, likely members of the special operations unit Joint Task Force 2, is on its way to Haiti to protect embassy staff.
They will join a few Canadian Forces planners already in the war-ravaged country preparing the potential evacuation of over 1,000 Canadians, Maj. Mike Audette said Wednesday.
He would not say when the troops would arrive in the capital of Port-au-Prince, or if they had already arrived.
"We have dispatched CF members to assist the embassy in Haiti with security measures," Audette said. "We are not in a position to discuss the composition or numbers of security staff who have been dispatched."
The soldiers were sent after the Department of Foreign Affairs ``asked for the provision of personnel to assist with security measures for the embassy and its staff.‘‘
A larger contingent of Canadian soldiers, but smaller than a 120-member company, has been put on alert and could depart to further secure the safety of embassy staff and other Canadian citizens in a matter of hours, said Audette.
Members of 2nd Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment, in Gagetown, N.B., along with elements of the Joint Operations Group out of Kingston, Ont., and a Hercules aircraft in Trenton, Ont., have been put on standby, he said.
French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin on Wednesday issued a statement calling for an "immediate" international civilian force to restore order in Haiti, where a rebellion threatens to topple President Jean-Baptiste Aristide.
France also said it wants human rights observers to be sent to the Caribbean country and a "long term" engagement of international aid aimed at reconstructing Haiti‘s dismal social and economic situation.
U.S. Marines were escorting foreigners trying to flee Haiti‘s capital Wednesday as looting broke out and opposition leaders urged a "timely and orderly" departure of the beleaguered president.
Aristide loyalists built dozens of flaming barricades, blocking roads all over the city and some leading to the airport.
Washington was encouraging the international community to provide a strong security presence in Haiti as America and its allies continued to try to achieve a political solution to the island nation‘s escalating violence.
On Tuesday, five Canadian Forces members arrived in Port-au-Prince to assist the Canadian embassy with planning the evacuation of Canadians should the situation worsen.
Ottawa has authorized the departure of non-essential staff from the embassy and all dependants of Canadian government personnel. Overall, there are about 30,000 foreigners in Haiti, some 20,000 of them Americans.
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