The Gagetown Thread- Merged

[dorionhawk]

I can tell you from experience that you never leave a weapon unattended and if you do its hidden behind the seat and you lock the damn doors.

There has to be something in the works for this to come up . Could it be the 9mm in question has been used in a crime? Has the weapon turned up and this is just a base for a political story in the next few days? Why else would this be brought up again?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

MP's don't use Brownings so that rules them out.  I remember years ago hearing about an armouries (I believe in ON) that was robbed of C7's and bolts.  I also remember hearing the story of the GGFG losing a Karl G on ex.

 

[chrisf]

Why else would this be brought up again?

Some journalist probably noticed an ad in crime stoppers, realised it's been missing for 4 months, and decided they could sensationalize it to the tune of gun control.

 

[Sig_Des]

I also remember hearing the story of the GGFG losing a Karl G on ex.

Ah, the good 'ol Gustav's Gone For Good. I've heard that story, but you'll never hear a Googlie acknowledge it

 

[Patrolman]

  Three years ago I was working in Gagetown on an Infanatry Phase Three as an en. force commander. During a withdrawl a student left his C-9 in the trench. We picked it up and turned it in to the DS. Nothing was said until four days later when the course WO did a kit check.It was only then that the student owned up to not knowing were his C-9 was.
So for four days the platoon operated with one less weapon then they should have had and not once did they mention it was lost. The culprit tried to cover it up by carring the Carl Gustav to make no one saw him empty handed. Excellent leadership! Maybe it was his pistol. I am not sure if he was ever disciplined for the incident or not. Had it been a TQ 3 course he would have been recoursed and charged.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

"Had it been a TQ 3 course he would have been recoursed and charged."

That isn't necessarily true.

 

[The_Falcon]

MP's don't use Brownings so that rules them out.  I remember years ago hearing about an armouries (I believe in ON) that was robbed of C7's and bolts.  I also remember hearing the story of the GGFG losing a Karl G on ex.

It was one of the Lorne Scots Armouries, either Brampton or Georgetown.

 

[3rd Herd]

Missing weapons add to the list a couple of GPMG's which disappeared in the mid 1980's from a couple of units. A fifty cal that was used to rob a brinks truck in Calgary(they caught those who were involved). Various other pieces of equipment taken off vechiles while being rail shipped for RV's 81 and 83. British soldiers selling Milan systems in Wainwright Rumor has it at Oka the warriors had various equipment that had gone astray from certain regiments in Quebec. Add in the purchases made by a well known motorcycle fraternal society from CF personal. And, yes I still remember the night in Wainwright one of our platoon forgot were he put his FN C1 when he took a compass bearing and the next two days of looking for it.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

selling a Milan!!! get out of here

 

[NavyShooter]

I heard rumblings a fewyears ago of a train car shipment of .50 M2's that was conveniently "parked" overnight in a western Canada Railyard....when they tracked it down the next day, it was empty.  No idea when this was supposed to have happened, just that it was "years ago".

Then there's the story of the kid in NL that did his engineer course over the summer, and for every charge, would sneak a little bit of the C-4 off into his pocket....he got caught after he flew home in the fall with it when he was blasting stuff in the local quarry with the saved bits of C-4 and detcord, etc that he brought home. 

There's the C-8,. MP-5's and 870 shotguns I've seen lost when a RHIB flipped over with a boarding party onboard....the stories of the .50 QCB barrel not being secured properly and getting *CHUNKED* over the side when they tried to fire the MG the next time....the friend of mine who was offered a nice new C-7 from one of the local reserves about 8 years ago...

The latest spat of things happening in Toronto has made handguns a very "hot" issue in the press, and the military losing one is an easy story for the press.

NS

 

[3rd Herd]

selling a Milan!!! get out of here

Yes in the summer of 83. Drove the CO and RSM in for a meeting and got to talking witha couple of the Brits also there. RSM thought price was quite resonable. Ended up with those nice camo uniforms we didn't have.

 

[Forgotten_Hero]

You' re on ex and for some reason you have to drive by yourself civyside (case in point I was in Beachburg during Stalwart Guardian this summer (40 km south of Petawawa)). Now you are issued a C-7 and of course dutifully take it with you. Now somewhere along the way from point 'A' to point 'B' that hamsteak and mustard sauce IMP hits you like Montezuma's revenge. The only bathroom is at a public restaurant along the highway. How does one run to the washroom with a rifle without looking lie a deranged gunman?

Well, as 48th said, best thing to do would to stop at some isolated location and just go in the forest. Other than that, there are always other options, although not all very practical. Personally, I think that, although you might get some odd stares and such, if you did go into timmies with a C7 while in uniform, nothing would really be said or done. Other than that though, you could always conceal the thing and bring it with you. Grab a bag or something and cover it up. If you need to, take it apart to make it fit.

And if you for some god damn reason decide not to take it with you and leave it in the vehicle, not only hide it, take the bolt at least with you.

As for all these stories about people forgetting their weapons... I have one... On course this summer, someone left his or someone elses rifle in the laundry room on another floor or the barracks. I dont know exactly how it ended, but I do know that there were threats of dismissing the person from the course, charging him, and I think even threatening his future in the CF. The guy, obviously, claimed he wasnt the one who left his rifle there.

 

[garb811]

I can't believe people are even bringing up the possibility of "hiding" a weapon in a vehicle unattended.  The weapon is your responsiblity and the CF policy is once it is out of the vault it is under positive control of a CF member 100% of the time.  If you are alone and have your weapon, you have NO CHOICE but to take it with you everywhere you go.  At the end of the day, what would you rather do,  explain to your CofC why you took the weapon into a civilian establishment out of "necessity driven by nature" or explain to one of us why you decided to do a "lock and leave" only to have it stolen?

Also, let's not forget we are soldiers who are legally entitled to carry the weapon we are issued in the course of our duties.  There is nothing "shameful" or "illegal" about taking it with you when no other options are available.  If you want to play it extra safe, take the mag out, sling the weapon, don't stike a threatening posture and go about your business in a professional manner. 

 

[Dissident]

Personally, I think that, although you might get some odd stares and such, if you did go into timmies with a C7 while in uniform, nothing would really be said or done.

Over hear in Hippy land, I doubt that shit like that would fly.

Anecdote:

Couple of years ago, on a road move, we ended up having to switch the weapons from one vehicule to another, while on the ferrie. While being carefull, somene saw us and reported us to CFB Esquimalt. While we did nothing wrong, steps were taken to make sure such a situation never arose again. We have to keep civies happy.

 

[Dissident]

Oh, the individual in question gets no sympathy from me. No mater what you are wearing, a pistol is easely carried undetected in a pocket.

And all small arms can be broke down in small enough parts to put them in a back pack.

 

[c_canuk]

gots you one of those new 1 meter long backpacks have ya?

you might be able to put a broken down C7 into a duffel, I've heard you can't, but I've never tried.

CF members should be able to carry weapons in public and if the public complains they should say the same thing that the CSM on my Basic trg said to a mother who called ripping cause we let her son fire a weapon and he didn't even have his hunters safety yet

"Lady, what the f*&D did you think we were doing down here!?!"

if the public is sensitive to us having weapons, the cure is to carry weapons more often, so they get used to the idea that us with weapons = us doing our job to protect them. No one bats an eye when they see the police with weapons.

 

[George Wallace]

gots you one of those new 1 meter long backpacks have ya?

you might be able to put a broken down C7 into a duffel, I've heard you can't, but I've never tried.

CF members should be able to carry weapons in public and if the public complains they should say the same thing that the CSM on my Basic trg said to a mother who called ripping cause we let her son fire a weapon and he didn't even have his hunters safety yet
.

With posts like this, I am tempted to call you a poser.  I am sure that in the amount of time that you claim to have in the CF, eight years, even for a Reservist, you must have used the C7.  I am sure that in those eight years you must have stripped that weapon several times.  I am sure you would therefore know how small it can be broken down to.

I am also sure that at one time or another, you or members of your Reserve unit have carried weapons in public.  That being the case, perhaps we have a further insight as to how this incident may have taken place.

 

[Armymedic]

I can tell you from experience that you never leave a weapon unattended and if you do its hidden behind the seat and you lock the damn doors.

I can't believe people are even bringing up the possibility of "hiding" a weapon in a vehicle unattended.  The weapon is your responsiblity and the CF policy is once it is out of the vault it is under positive control of a CF member 100% of the time.  If you are alone and have your weapon, you have NO CHOICE but to take it with you everywhere you go.  At the end of the day, what would you rather do,  explain to your CofC why you took the weapon into a civilian establishment out of "necessity driven by nature" or explain to one of us why you decided to do a "lock and leave" only to have it stolen?

First off, IF you are leaving your weapons in the veh, the veh is locked up tight...Seen it, done it, will continue to do so (Hospitals, even military ones, do not take it kindly when you come in armed). Leaving it on the dashboard would just be stupid, so yes, you'd place it out of sight. In an LSVW, the upper side bin works quite well.
Secondly, After 18 yrs service in all sorts of army units, I did say it is common practice to do so.
Thirdly, IF you want to change that habit, then we start overseas by making everyone carry thier weapons everywhere they go, thats including crew served. (which BTW I see all sorts of troops lock into thier unarmoured vehs) We are at war there after all....

Blowing hot air around here isn't going to help anything...the only thing it will do is ensure more rules, regulations, directions and BS will come down and crush us.

if the public is sensitive to us having weapons, the cure is to carry weapons more often, so they get used to the idea that us with weapons = us doing our job to protect them. No one bats an eye when they see the police with weapons.

Exactly.

Now sum up, learn from someone else's mistake, and ensure there isn't a next time happening to you and your troops

 

[Sig_Des]

another I don't think I've seen mentioned is the fact that, if you're driving around or going anywhere off-base and you have a weapon, there is usually someone with you....

4 guys in a truck, all have weapons, all want to go to Tims? Leave a guy in the truck, go do what you need to do, even pick buddy up a coffee, and then, if he needs to answer the call of nature, somebody take his place. Hell, how many times have any of you had to do weapons sentry on a course while everyone else is in the Mess. It's basics.

Have a responsible person who's location you can confirm watch your weapon for you.

Case in point:

Last summer, EX Stalwart Guardian, CP, Rad Van.

RSM: "Sig, I need to go on Base. Can I leave my pistol with you?"
Me: "Yes, RSM"
RSM Clears weapon "Weapon Clear?", "Clear RSM"

Weapon then locked up in Crypto Box... One Sig in back of vehicle at all times...RSM returns, Grabs weapon...seems easy enough right?

Myself, I'll take my weapon with me everywhere.

 

[SHELLDRAKE!!]

I can't think of a single time where an authorized exercise, road move, display, or deployment where a soldier would be put in a situation that they had no recourse but to leave their weapon insecure.

Firstly you were issued the weapon for a specific reason, therefore you are authorized to carry it for your "tasking". As far as I know, it has never occured that a weapon vault is opened up to issue one soldier a weapon so you should always have atleast one other person who could conceivably act as weapon sentry if you should develop a case of the trots.

Admittedly a scenario could arise where you, for whatever reason are alone with a weapon and need to access an area that civillians dont want you to have a weapon in, but with the use of common sense, either you dont go there or you should be comfortable in the knowledge that you are willing to justify your actions up the chain.

And as a side note, being a herbie, my first thought reading the title of this thread was......."oh no, Whisky Battery has lost a howitzer"....