The C7 Assault Rifle, M16, & AR15 family (C7A1, C7A2, C7 replacment, and C7 vs M16)

[Lerch]

Is the bushmaster AR-15 very similar to the c7? Looks similar in photos.

... : There was a technical term that I heard a Sgt use when describing the improvements made on the C7 from the M16...what was it now?...ah yes, a shitload.

 

[KevinB]

... : There was a technical term that I heard a Sgt use when describing the improvements made on the C7 from the M16...what was it now?...ah yes, a shitload.

:

Well here is a hint ->STFU on stuff you know jack about.



Bushmaster makes a number of models that are near identical to the C7 and C8 series with the exception of the select fire feature.

 

[geo]

Cdn manufacturer of assault weapons has a limited appeal on the domestic market.

It was unavoidable IMHO

 

[17thRecce]

That guy in the video should be told to keep his **** finger off the trigger when he's not actually firing the thing.  When the C-7 was modified for service in the CAF, there were 11 modifications to the basic M16 design.  It's been too long, I don't recall all of them.  Included were the arctic trigger, redesigned front handgrip, reduced height on carrying handle and redesign of the flash suppressor. 

 

[KevinB]

That guy in the video should be told to keep his **** finger off the trigger when he's not actually firing the thing.  When the C-7 was modified for service in the CAF, there were 11 modifications to the basic M16 design.  It's been too long, I don't recall all of them.  Included were the arctic trigger, redesigned front handgrip, reduced height on carrying handle and redesign of the flash suppressor. 

Well actually all your comments where wrong.

The M16 series has an arctic trigger guard (which no one uses)
Standard M16A2 Flash Hider
M16A1 Carry Handle/Iron Sight
M16A2 Front handguard

Your 0/4

 

[17thRecce]

Well, what do ya know?  Doubtless you know more.  It's been 17 years since we had the change-over classes and my memory isn't that great for that long ago.  I'll defer to the expert.

 

[KevinB]

I'm guessing you mean the SARP conversion course...

I did mine in 1989.  I remember the name of the course though 

  Specific differences in the CF C7/C8 from the M16 Series -- the only real one was the Cold Hammer Forged barrel, a "partial" difference was offering different stock sizes (Short - marked CS, was M16A1 length) Normal (M16A2 stock) and Long (a spacer was placed between the buttplate and the stock to extend the reach - usually for gorilla sized folk to do drill with.  The rest of the differences where picking and chosing parts of either the M16A1  or the M16A2 (rear sight/carry handle and fire control of the A1, safe, semi (R), and auto vice the Safe, Semi and Burst of the A2), with the A2 barrel spec (1:7 twist, 20" length, and the A2 5 ported flash hider - over the 6 ported "BirdCage" of the M16A1, Lower front take down pin well reinforcement of the M16A2, M16A2 plastic furniture.

Thats about the entent of it.

 

[Redeye]

I-6 - I'll totally defer to you as you are surely the expert - however from what I call reading somewhere on some black rifle website which was fairly comprehensive, the C7 came about as a "product improved" M16A1 - and there was a fair bit of collaboration in developing features for it that went into the M16A2 as they were somewhat concurrent.  Is it unreasonable to suspect that all the quoted changes made to the C7 vice M16s were from original models, which flowed at the same time into the A2?

 

[KevinB]

RedEye -- the C7 is based off the M16A1E1 (M16A2) the A2 desgin was finished by the time SARP rolled around.  Colt actually had the nerve to have a bill for "adding" some of the M16A1 features back to the C7...
  Canada asked (and did not receive) for permision to make a heavy throughout barrel - but Colt did not accept that and the M16A2 profile barrel was kept.

 

[1feral1]

When the C-7 was modified for service in the CAF, there were 11 modifications to the basic M16 design.  It's been too long, I don't recall all of them.  Included were the arctic trigger, redesigned front handgrip, reduced height on carrying handle and redesign of the flash suppressor. 

Firstly, welcome to the website, but please know your subject matter before you post.

I am sure this has come up somewhere in here already, as I feel I am about to repeat myself, ha!

The C7 was never modified for initial service, it was the finished product of SARP, and adopted as such by the CF, although things changed along the way, the introduction of the C7A1 about 1993-4, plus that thing of a C7A2.

However we are talking the early days, the C7 rifle, nothing more right now. So, back to about 1990.....

C7 c.1990

Here we go.....

In August 1982 we knew what direction the CF was taking in SARP. FN Herstal's FNC, the Dutch MN1 (Dutch copy of a Galil), and the US Colt M16A2 were the rifles trialed by the CF. The A2 won out.

The rest is history.

The overall only few differences between the Colt M16A2 and the Diemaco C7 (1991) yes, the stocks come in different sizes, Kevin has got it covered.

flash supp - US M16A2

std 508mm bbl 1/7" twist - M16A2

front sight, originally M16A2, but CF wanted a finer round one - unique to the CF

upper reciever - same as M16A2 including caseing deflector (carrying handle height 100% identical to the M16 FoW - never EVER changed)

rear sight mounting system -  same as M16A1, but of a CCB/low light and 200m appetures (unique to the CF), as opposed to near/far type on the original M16A1 

lower reciever-  S-R-A only (no burst), built up around take down pin for more sturdyness, same as M16A2

handguards - same as M16A2

slip ring - same as M16A2

arctic trigger -its ALWAYS been there since 1965

pistol grip - same as the A2

butt - comes in sizes, unique to the CF at the time, aside form that, the butt is the same as the M16A2

butt plate -  same as M16A2

cleaning kit - unique to Canada

magazine c.1990 - plastic 30rd 'GAPCO' but Cdn made - replaced in the early - mid 90's by generic US alloy 30rd mags.

BFA - unique to Canada

sling - US copy

bayonet - a Cdn version of the US M7 (US M3 trench knife, US M4 M1 carbine, US M5 M1 Garand, US M6 M14, the blade design has been around since 1943) design with a new (cheaper) scabbard. There are a few diff's, mainly the frosted stainless, and uses only one generic grip for both sides, the M7 has a different grip for each side. New C-2000 types are now in the system. No, they are NOT made in Canada, but in the UK, not Germany. Thats comes right from Colt Canada.

I was on the Australian national rebuild program, making many US M16A2's and even M16A1's (and even combos there of too), plus my knowledge from the CF and SARP, so please understand, I know where I am coming from.


Regards from Baghdaddy,


Wes

 

[KevinB]

Thanks Wes, its nice to hear from the horse' mouth, I was just an end user with an interest.

BTW -- BigRed's H&R M16A1 is having some issues with its autsear (hole elongation) -- I put a KNS pin into it - and it seems to have fixed the issue for now -- but I dont suppose you know anyone in the IZ that can do annodizing?

 

[1feral1]

Can't say I do (we are still trying to round up some pool chlorine for our home made 8 seater spa - war is hell eh  ;D), usually any longated holes in lowers usually spells out a destruction order. Your pin is a quick fix, and fine for an operational mod. That H&R is VN vintage, and for around 40 yrs of wear and tear is a good run, especially on an alloy reciever.

Maybe time for a new lower, and keep the old one as a backup.

Hope the NY came in quiet for you up north. Here from 0002 to 0020 it was madness here, til the gunships were airborne, then those endless trails of tracer stopped ( I wonder why, ha!). Some of shooting coming from as little as 100m away, and striking a tad close. There must have been something going on, as two CH47s landed about 500m away, and then took off after a few minutes. Don't know if the Yanks were rehersing for something, or if there was something else underway. Either way, aside from that 'odd angry shot' and blip or three from a PKM, it was silent. I crashed about 0130, after being social with the lads.

Hey, I broke the 100 mark recently! One more day down means one more day closer to home. Hopefully we'll RV in a couple of wks.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[KevinB]

I know a bunch of anti Jaysh Al Madhi hits went down.  As well as some Anti-Sunni stuff in the bottom of the triangle.
However its pretty quiet where we are.

I was debating bringing in a bunch of 80% lowers and drilling them here -- then coating them -- not idea, but our contract are issued Sig552's and several of us choose to run the M16FOW so when guns wear out -- we have to search and scrape for them.

 

 

[PhilB]

Hi guys just quick question, as my search fu is weak to non existent today. With the C8HB/SFW whatever you want to call (the C8 they are issuing in the ghan) do I need to buy a carbine or mid-length rail system? Just curious because I remember reading something about it being a mid length but I am not sure. Just don't want to buy something and have it not fit. Thanks.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[KevinB]

Carbine.

 

[themuckler]

so here goes my two cents. as a soldier that has actually used the C7CT combat, while sort of. for you see the optics are way better then that of the c3 but the range and power are really lacking. which causes major problems when you are looking to dispatch some sorry piece of trash in one shot. the CT is just a tricked out c7 that some hammerhead thought would be awesome in an infantry section because of the presicion that it offers but a section in combat, and i know this for a fact, never has the time employ a weapon like this that takes way to much time to aquire targets because in the heat of combet all you want to does it put up that wall of bullets and close the distance on the enemy.

as for the C7, its a great weapon with a lot of options but a heavy barrel is what it needs and dont forget to get some ammo that is lethal beyound 150m.

 

[1feral1]

as for the C7, its a great weapon with a lot of options but a heavy barrel is what it needs and dont forget to get some ammo that is lethal beyound 150m.

??

Lethality only to 150 metres?

5.56 x 45mm SS109 NATO STANAG 4172 rated ball? Whatever happened to peneterating flak jackets and steel helmets at 800m? Thats with a stk std 508mm bbl, 1/7 RH twist a la M16A2 c.1982.
 
Thats a new one, and the first I've heard of it loosing it punch at such a short range.

The US have developed a heavier 5.56mm rd, the US Mk 262 Mod 1. 77gr in projectile weight, vice the old US M193 55gr projectile as used in the 1/12 RH twist M16A1 bbls. The SS109 compatable 5.56mm projectile weight is 62gr. Kevin can fill us in on all this techo specs stuff, but try searching for it first on here. The new ammo is here in theatre being used right now with much success, but having SS109 inferior lethality range only to 150m, in ammo which has been proven elsewhere and in the CF system alone in over 20 yrs, I find that hard to believe. Are you sure it was not the operator?


Regards,

Wes

 

[McG]

Hi guys just quick question, as my search fu is weak to non existent today. With the C8HB/SFW whatever you want to call (the C8 they are issuing in the ghan) ...

Is the C8HB the same as the SFW, or has the C8HB been shortened to match the length of the standard C8?

 

[KevinB]

The C8SFW is the C8FTHB - the only difference is the SFW comes with the KAC M4RAS.

 

[McG]

Ack.  I am aware that the HB is the SFW barrel, but what is the length that it has been cut to (37 cm or 41 cm)?