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Swine Flu argument.

CANADIAN F0RCES

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http://www.yourspine.com/Chiropractic/Swine+Flu+Vaccine+to+Maim+and+Kill.aspx


CDC States H1N1 Vaccine May Maim and Kill 30,000 Americans, FDA Requires Minimal Efficacy
CDC says to assume 1 in every 100,000 vaccine recipients will suffer serious side effects, FDA only requires vaccine be effective in 3 out of 10 recipients.

The Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has officially stated that there will be as many as 30,000 serious, potentially lethal adverse reactions to the novel H1N1 vaccine, while the FDA guidelines for the novel H1N1 vaccine only require that it work in 3 out of every 10 recipients.

Last Saturday, I attended one of 10 “public engagement” meetings the CDC is holding across the country, utilizing a new model of public engagement designed to provide a public viewpoint or societal perspective on the topic at hand (mass vaccination) to the sponsor (in this case, the CDC).

Part of the process entails the sponsor (CDC) providing the following: “Information on the many sides of an issue is provided to the participants in a fair and balanced manner so that all participants become well-informed, and the overall group process is convened and managed in a neutral, respectful fashion.”

This requirement is met by providing an oral presentation in easy to understand language, a booklet summarizing the key facts needed and a discussion guide summarizing the choices faced.

The assembled group of 80 participants was shown a video, given a brief oral presentation and a printed discussion guide. We were asked to accept several assumptions in considering the topic. We were asked to assume that the severity would be similar to what had already been observed in the spring of 2009; we were told to assume that the vaccination program would be voluntary, not mandatory; we were told to assume that initial vaccine supplies will be available in October but supply would be limited through February 2010.

The most disturbing assumption we were asked to accept dealt with the safety of the novel H1N1 vaccine. In the video, the CDC spokesperson explained that during the 1976 mass vaccination campaign, 1 in every 100,000 recipients of the vaccine developed Guillain Barré syndrome (GBS), a disorder in which the body's immune system attacks the peripheral nervous system often leading to paralysis and death. There is no known cure for GBS.

In 1976 roughly 40 million Americans received the vaccine and some 4,000 developed GBS.

The printed material that was distributed reiterated these horrific statistics and we were asked to accept the assumption that, “the estimated risk for more serious reactions (e.g. Guillain Barré syndrome) is between 1-10 per million persons vaccinated”.

This is a less direct way of stating that the risk is about the same as existed during the 1976 mass vaccination attempt and that as many as 1 in every 100,000 recipients will develop GBS or some other serious adverse reaction. The CDC is setting up a new intensive surveillance system with which to monitor and track GBS cases that result from the novel H1N1 vaccine.

Merriam-Webster defines assumption as a fact or statement taken for granted and assumed to be true. If we accept the documented assumption presented by the CDC, we are to consider it a fact that 1 in every 100,000 vaccine recipients will suffer a serious adverse effect such as GBS.

This means that if the entire U.S. population is vaccinated (a stated goal of the CDC), we are to assume as a fact that 30,000 Americans will suffer debilitating or lethal side effects. Apparently the CDC considers this an acceptable level of collateral damage.

As unthinkable as this is (destroying or ending the lives of as many as 30,000 Americans), that is only part of the story.

The novel H1N1 vaccine being developed must adhere to guidelines set forth by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA). The FDA has announced that a vaccine will be accepted if it creates antibodies in 4 out of 10 recipients (40%), with at least 70 percent of those 4 achieving an antibody level believed to provide benefit. This means that an acceptable vaccine candidate would provide “protection” for 28% of vaccine recipients (70% of the 40%), or less than 3 in 10 recipients. The requirement drops to 18% efficacy for those over 65 years of age (60% of 30%).

So here are the facts, as documented by the CDC and the FDA:

As many as 30,000 Americans will be harmed by the novel H1N1 vaccine.

The vaccine may be ineffective in more than 7 out of 10 recipients.

And in case you think I am alone in my concerns, here is what several vaccine experts associated with the CDC and the U.S. government say on the subject.

"I am very skeptical of finishing vaccine before we know the appropriate dose to be included in each inoculation, before immunogenicity studies are complete, or before safety assessments have been finished," William Schaffner, MD, Chairman of the Department of Preventive Medicine at Vanderbilt University and a member of the CDC Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), wrote in an recent e-mail.

"We have assured both the profession and the public that the H1N1 vaccine will be evaluated with the same rigor that is applied to seasonal vaccine. We should NOT make vaccine available before the trials are complete and the results carefully assessed."

Others are worried about a repeat of the last swine flu "pandemic," now regarded as a public health and public relations debacle.

"I fear that a rush towards vaccinating the population without completing trials risks leading to the harmful outcome that we witnessed during the 1976 swine flu scare, where the government advocated rapid production and vaccination of the population without adequate safeguards, which led to an unexplained increase in cases of Guillain Barré syndrome (GBS), amongst other complications, and massive liability for the government," wrote Amir Afkhami, MD, PhD, of George Washington University, an international expert on the 1918 Influenza pandemic and an advisor to the U.S. State Department, the U.S. military, and the World Bank on issues pertaining to infectious diseases, public health and, mental health.

"I think in this regard, we must learn from lessons of the past and be mindful of not jumping from the proverbial frying pan into the fire by putting people's health at risk without adequate production and safety monitoring of the vaccines."
 
Sensationalist tripe... IMHO.

I would be sceptical of flu information of a chiropractic site. Only in so much as they're not flu specialists.
 
ModlrMike said:
Sensationalist tripe... IMHO.

I would be sceptical of flu information of a chiropractic site. Only in so much as they're not flu specialists.

I agree.  What they heck do they know?
 
ModlrMike said:
Sensationalist tripe... IMHO.

I would be sceptical of flu information of a chiropractic site. Only in so much as they're not flu specialists.

...and alot are anti-vaccinationists.

MM
 
We generally lose 30,000 annually to the regular flu and its complications. For a real pandemic we need hundreds of thousands to become ill and die. Whats really crazy is the government has rushed this vaccine out without testing it. I sure wouldnt let the school immunize my kid you're asking for trouble. The vaccine IS the swine flu if it doesnt work as advertized alot of people are going to be needlessly exposed.
 
It would seem that Herb Newborg, the writer of many of the "news" stories on YourSpine.com is the President of Chiropractic America.  However, this little blurb on him doesn't even mention whether or not he's a doctor.

Funny that the link to visit the doctor's only section gives me an "Untrusted Connection" warning.  ::)
 
CANADIAN F0RCES said:
This means that if the entire U.S. population is vaccinated (a stated goal of the CDC), we are to assume as a fact that 30,000 Americans will suffer debilitating or lethal side effects. Apparently the CDC considers this an acceptable level of collateral damage.

As unthinkable as this is (destroying or ending the lives of as many as 30,000 Americans), that is only part of the story.

Of course, they could choose to stand back and let every man, woman and child fend for themselves if a full pandemic occurs:

The Influenza Pandemic of 1918

The influenza pandemic of 1918-1919 killed more people than the Great War, known today as World War I (WWI), at somewhere between 20 and 40 million people.
.....

It infected 28% of all Americans (Tice). An estimated 675,000 Americans died of influenza during the pandemic, ten times as many as in the world war. Of the U.S. soldiers who died in Europe, half of them fell to the influenza virus and not to the enemy (Deseret News). An estimated 43,000 servicemen mobilized for WWI died of influenza (Crosby).
 
Side effects for only 1 -10 per million?  That's pretty darn good for a vaccine. 

Its surprising how many people seem to think that a 0% reaction to a vaccine is some sort of birthright.  How many people are allergic to penicillin yet we still use it on a regular basis?  I know its a lot more than 1 in a million...
 
I'm actualy surprised by the panic over swine flu.

Anyone remember when SARS was going to kill us all ?

Anyone remember when Avian flu was going to kill us all ?

How many people die from the "regular" flu ?

Makes the WHO look like "The boy who cried wolf".
 
Its their moment in the sun - for years they talked how this could happen, now they gotta milk that cash cow for all its worth...
 
It's a rock and a hard place for them.  The hammering they will take if it fizzles is nothing compared to the hammering they would take if they played it down and it ran wild with a relatively high death rate compared to regular flu outbreaks.
 
Last weekend, one quarter of the Intensive Care beds in Australia were taken by people with H1N1 virus on ventilators. They have run out of beds and they have run out of  nurses. This virus may not directly kill many people, but it may cause people to die because of shortages of  ventilators, hospital beds and staff. On an average day in Canada, the ICUs are full even without new patients with H1N1, who stay in the ICU an average of 3 weeks. The average age for people with H1N1 in the ICU in Australia is 40 years. These are not old people who would have died anyway.

And regarding SARS, it was terrible for the health care workers that were exposed, got sick  and died ( 3 nurses, 1 doctor in Ontario; 8 doctors in Hong Kong)  If the health care workers begin to fall ill, what then?  Some with young families will not go to work.  Some will work exhausted.  There is no slack in our system. That is why the  WHO , the CDC and health care workers  are paying attention to this virus.
 
That's a lot of facts without backup. Do you have any sources for your info Another Mom?
 
I understand that this could be something serious(or overexaggerated), however if the side effects of 1 in 100,000 people are so called 'serious'...... I wouldn't be going to get my vaccination any time soon.
 
This whole swine flue business is really fishy.  Seasonal flue kills MANY more per year, yet it's not considered a "pandemic". 

Baxter, a pharmaceutical company involved in numerous scandals, has received the US contract to manufacture the vaccine.

The virus has been elevated to a Level 5 Pandemic...

It simply looks like a method to line some peoples pockets if you ask me.
 
Xiang said:
This whole swine flue business is really fishy.  Seasonal flue kills MANY more per year, yet it's not considered a "pandemic". 

Baxter, a pharmaceutical company involved in numerous scandals, has received the US contract to manufacture the vaccine.

The virus has been elevated to a Level 5 Pandemic...

It simply looks like a method to line some peoples pockets if you ask me.

It's easy to break out the tin foil hats and cry "Conspiracy" when you and no-one close to you has been sick yet.  These viruses are not like the regular flu you may have had, they will put pressure on an already strained medical system even if only a fraction of the afflicted need only a brief emergency room visit or one night for isolation, diagnosis and to start rehydration (which is what I needed this summer followed by nearly a month of sick leave after contracting a type "A" virus). Add to that pressure the numbers who contract a regular case of the flue (themselves, or their children, or aging parents) who demand to be seen by a physician because the early stages look and feel the same and they will want a confirmed diagnosis.

And those who cry "Conspiracy" now will also be the first to scream "Neglect" if nothing is done and someone in their own family gets seriously sick or dies.

 
I don't believe it's a conspiracy.  Baxter is making millions off of this vaccine, and the media is spinning it as if it was going to kill us all.  This is all fact, not a conspiracy.

So far the only ones to die were those who already had a weakened immune system from underlying medical/health issues, the elderly, and in some cases children, just like how the seasonal flu kills.

It is no more contagious than the regular flu, and no more deadly.

The only thing I do not know, or can't explain, is why Baxter, a company that has made some serious blunders in the past, has once again got the contract to manufacture the vaccine, when there were other (more competent) pharmaceutical companies willing to take on the task. 

I'm not even going to try to speculate at the risk of actually sounding like a conspiracy theorist.
 
Michael O'Leary said:
It's easy to break out the tin foil hats and cry "Conspiracy" when you and no-one close to you has been sick yet. 

It's not easy for our generation(s) to relate to. We are taller, stronger, healthier and live longer. Most have never seen a quarantine sign in their neighbor's door. Diptheria, Scarlet Fever, Whooping Cough. Classmates crippled with polio. Mastoid scars. Mostly forgotten.
 
Xiang said:
So far the only ones to die were those who already had a weakened immune system from underlying medical/health issues, the elderly, and in some cases children, just like how the seasonal flu kills.

It is no more contagious than the regular flu, and no more deadly.

So now you're an epidemiologist??  I think the concern regarding H1N1 is the potential for it to become fatal, as in the 1918 epidemic.

Xiang said:
The only thing I do not know, or can't explain, is why Baxter, a company that has made some serious blunders in the past, has once again got the contract to manufacture the vaccine, when there were other (more competent) pharmaceutical companies willing to take on the task.

Baxter is not the only company to produce the vaccine.  Others inlcude Sinovac, Adimmune, Sanofi-Aventis and GlaxoSmithKline.
 
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