Swine Flu argument.

[Xiang]

The CDC did not predict "the end of the world" and I would challenge you to back up this own bit of hyperbole.

If a comment was meant to be backed up, it wouldn't be hyperbole now would it?

Just saying 

 

[PMedMoe]

But don't call them vague for the sake of a debate.

I called your repeated posts about them vague because you did not quote any sources or info.  Debate?  No thanks, I have better things to do.

For other info regarding the flu (any flu) it is NOT contact borne, it is droplet borne.  Someone coughs or sneezes into your face and you inhale the droplets.

As far as washing your hands often and not touching your eyes, nose or mouth, that's very sound health advice.  It will help to prevent the spread of other illnesses.

 

[aesop081]

You do need to wash your hands thoroughly  (20-30 sec) and often, cough or sneeze into your sleeve instead of your hand, refrain from touching your nose, mouth and eyes and stay away from sick people.

Thats great. Then why not just stick to that ?

Unless you live under a rock, the message getting out is far from that.

The MIR here all but hung a sign at the door that said "if you are sick, go away"

better than ignoring everything because of the media hype, which sometimes does have the benefit of getting people's attention.

Yup, the media puts its own spin on it, but is the WHO unaware of that ? Maybe the organization should spend some time informing rather than feeding the panic machine. Have you watched a WHO press conference lately ?

 

[Edward Campbell]

You know damn well that i am not quoting anyone but, IMHO, that is the message that is making it to the masses, like it or not.

Of course there is meetings and planning going on. It would be irresposible not to plan. Thats not what i was getting at. My point is that it is possible to prepare for emergencies without feeding public hysteria. The panic in my area is fed by nothing more than ignorance. People here have already demanded that schools be closed this year despite the fact that there has not been a single reported case of H1N1.

Health authorities need to manage information and the media better.

But, I think you have the cart before the horse, in a way, CDN Aviator.

I agree that the media is a major part of the "problem" you have outlined but I think the messenger, not the message, per se, is the problem. The 24/7 news machine needs to be fed - preferably with things that titillate or excite or, at worst, frighten viewers/listeners/readers. They, the media, misrepresent and distort, by selective editing, the message from the WHO, Health Canada and local public health authorities.

I don't think the health professions can, ethically, fail to advise, inform and warn. But their advice, information and warnings are being distorted, by the media, in order to sell soap.

 

[Edward Campbell]

... Have you watched a WHO press conference lately ?

Yes, a few weeks ago. Dr. Chan was, comme d'habitude, clear and deadly dull - the commentary and the networks' "doctors for hire" who followed, however, were quite something else.

 

[aesop081]

but I think the messenger, not the message, per se, is the problem.

I would say that both are the problem. I do not beleive for a single second that organizations like HC and WHO are clueless as to how this all plays out in the media. To me, this a huge failiure of information management on the part of health authorities and sensationalism by the media. Knowing that the message gets twisted, why is the message not being re-shaped ?

I don't think the health professions can, ethically, fail to advise, inform and warn.

Agreed, but a much better job has to be done WRT public information.

At a local coffee shop the other day i overheard a conversation by some folks who we saying that once H1N1 gets into town, it will be a mess just like in those nothern communities. Everyone around was in enthusiastic agreement......WTF ??

People are stupid, the media spins the story and what does HC do......"go get the ineffective flu shot...."

Big "F" for the PR department.

 

[Xiang]

There are a lot of sides at fault here.  The media, the White House, the WHO and the CDC... They can't seem to get their stories straight.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/08/27/2009-08-27_head_of_the_cdc_dr_thomas_frieden_disputes_white_house_swine_flu_report.html

 

[Another Mom]

I think  part of the problem is that most people think of only two options  1. Freak out or 2. Do nothing. The reality requires more thought and boring change of daily habits.

 

[muskrat89]

I work for a post-secondary education institution and am one of the ones on this campus involved in pandemic planning. I receive new information almost every day.

I can tell you that (in the US at least) local, county and state officials are trying to balance the message; it is the media that spins it up or down. This is not black and white - medical professionals can't even declare with certainty how bad or not bad this will be. They are trying to inform people with a happy medium.

I think however, that I should direct them to this very message board, where the real experts are proclaiming the truth.

 

[aesop081]

I think however, that I should direct them to this very message board, where the real experts are proclaiming the truth.

I am no expert but i tell you what the view is from where is it, as an obvious knuck-draging, one eyebrow hick. Your sarcasm aside, this :

medical professionals can't even declare with certainty how bad or not bad this will be.

...is akin to global warming as a calamity.......its all maybe, maybe not. Nobody knows.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I was just listening to the news on the radio. They were doing a story about parents who want schools closed. They quote Dr. David Butler-Jones, the national public heath authority, who explains, clearly and calmly why that is not necessary and not a good idea. He does his job, well: clear, concise, calm information. Then the "journalist" finishes the story with a comment to the effect of "that's all well and good, unless something really bad happens."

I disagree with CDN Aviator on the source of the misinformation and panic - which, I agree with him is out there. It's not Chan at WHO, Geneva, it's not Butler-Jones in Ottawa. It's rumour mongers and fear mongers - none of them having any idea about flu or pandemics or public health or shoe lacing.

 

[Rifleman62]

And I still say the Prince and his party will use the H1N1 as an election issue. The LPC fit into the "rumour mongers and fear mongers" category. They will be aided and abetted by the Cdn media. And I think the LPC has already planted the seed on this issue recently in the parliamentary committee hearings. A trial balloon


http://www.liberal.ca/en/newsroom/media-releases/16182_canadas-doctors-echo-h1n1-concerns

Canada’s doctors echo H1N1 concerns
Published on 18 August 2009

Given the Conservative government’s poor track record in managing health crises, Liberal MPs continue to express their concerns that Canada isn’t prepared for a second wave of H1N1 flu.

“We learned the hard way when listeriosis claimed twenty-two lives last year,” said Liberal Health Critic Dr. Carolyn Bennett. “Now we’re seeing no federal action to help cancer patients cope with thousands of delayed tests arising from the medical isotope shortage. How can we feel confident in this government’s ability to protect Canadians from H1N1?”

Concerns over Canada’s lack of readiness has reached the point where the Canadian Medical Association’s Journal is calling for the federal Conservatives to step aside from this issue entirely, by recommending that an independent “health czar” take over the federal response to H1N1.

“There can be no more damning indictment of the Conservative government’s handling of this issue,” said Quebec Liberal MP Dr. Bernard Patry. “Liberals have long called for an independent chief public health officer who reports to Parliament, not a government of a particular partisan stripe.”

Conservative Health Minister Leona Aglukkaq provided only vague assurances to the Canadian Medical Association on H1N1 preparedness yesterday, and refused to provide details on the safety or distribution of anti-viral drugs to Canadians. Having still provided no clear response to the Premiers’ call for immediate and meaningful cooperation on tackling the pandemic, Dr. Bennett expressed concern that the Minister of Health is dodging full accountability on the issue of H1N1 preparedness.

“Canadians need answers – which is why we appreciate Minister Aglukkaq’s willingness to make herself available to the Health Committee again,” said Dr. Bennett. “We hope she can stay for all of the meeting this time so that the elected members can get answers and give Canadians more confidence that we’re ready for H1N1.”

 

[muskrat89]

I am no expert but i tell you what the view is from where is it, as an obvious knuck-draging, one eyebrow hick. Your sarcasm aside, this :

I wasn't directing my comments at you specifically. That being said, your comments do seem to be pretty much "matter of fact". I wonder how you would react to a message board of doctors pontificating about how simple it should be to navigate a plane?

I agree that to the guy on the street (including me) there is a lot of Henny Penny stuff - I don't believe it is because the medical field is trying to deliberately be alarmist, or not managing their information well enough.

 

[PMedMoe]

The MIR here all but hung a sign at the door that said "if you are sick, go away"

The medical sections are supposed to advise people what to do if they are sick.  People can call in and be triaged over the phone.  If there is a need for them to come in, they will be told exactly what to do.  Before we moved to our new building, a Med Tech or Nurse would meet the patient at the door and escort them into a room so that they could avoid the possibility of other sick people being exposed to the virus.  If there is no need for them to come in, they are being advised to self-isolate for seven days.  After all, what's the point of passing the virus to other people?  If you are sick, you should stay at home.

 

[CANADIAN F0RCES]

Hey sorry I've finally returned from a little "vaca", and so I want to share another little viewpoint. When they say H1N1 could be similar to the virus of 1918 and such, is it not fair to argue that the conditions in which the virus had/has to spread is drastically different?

 

[mariomike]

When they say H1N1 could be similar to the virus of 1918 and such, is it not fair to argue that the conditions in which the virus had/has to spread is drastically different?

I have read that the U.S. Army decided to "send men on troop ships to France, in spite of the fact that half or more of them would come down with the flu during the voyage, because to stop the troop ship-outs would encourage the enemy, Germany. And that the military also continued transferring men in and out of domestic encampments, although they knew that doing so would spread a killer disease. And the fact that newspapers and other media kept up happy talk and down-played the epidemic as it was happening, offering such useless advice as "keep your feet dry" while thousands of people died."
Yet, today, with modern transportation, I think disease can spread rapidly also.

 

[Greymatters]

Hey sorry I've finally returned from a little "vaca", and so I want to share another little viewpoint. When they say H1N1 could be similar to the virus of 1918 and such, is it not fair to argue that the conditions in which the virus had/has to spread is drastically different?

To this day we as a population still use many forms of transport that bring us into close contact with others on a regular basis, such as buses, airplanes, ships, elevators, etc.  We congregate at fast-food restaurants and shop at closed-in malls.  Significant numbers of the population still live in close quarters, we still use hotels, people still live in ghettoes, many cities are larger than what they were in 1918.  Medicine as a whole and individual awareness of diseases is better (at least in Western countries), but there really hasnt been any change in the way we associate with each other, so the risk of diseases being passed on at a high rate is just as much of a concern as it was in 1918...

 

[aesop081]

Although i have no great wish to get "swine flu" ( or anything else for that matter), this just about sums it up nicely

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=swine_flu

 

[Michael OLeary]

Although i have no great wish to get "swine flu" ( or anything else for that matter), this just about sums it up nicely

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=swine_flu

One more idiot who shouldn't be allowed to use the internet.  Yup, the symptoms are similar, the intensity and duration of effect, however, are radically different.  And why not offer to fly to someone with a confirmed case et them "sneeze in your face", by the time the test is completed the person is no longer contagious.    :

 

[aesop081]

One more idiot who shouldn't be allowed to use the internet. 

No less different than the idiots we frequently allow to post here. No less different than anyone on the internet that advocates a less than reasoned approach to "swine flu" ( a.k.a. Panic).