"So You Want To Be A Pilot" Merged Thread 2002 - 2018

[brian_k]

How long would the training be? from a civilian to a pilot.

If you go ROTP it could be possible to get by with only 2 years OJT and 2 years flight training. So about 4 years after gradutating to get wings.
If you go DEO it will probably be 1 year french, 4 years OJT (with PFT half way through this),  and 2 years flight training. So it could be as long as 7 years after graduating to get your wings.

 

[snyper21]

7 years eh..

 

[SupersonicMax]

Graduated from RMC in May 2006, got my wings in July 2008.  A little over 2 years.  Now, end of May 2010, I'm just about to finish my Fighter Pilot Course. 

 

[snyper21]

2 years versus 7 is quite a large difference. I guess everyone experiences different wait times/delays/backlogs.

ps,
Supersonic Max, I'm very jelous of where you are in your training.

 

[brian_k]

Supersonic, I'm not sure if you are trying to mislead people about current waits or just rubbing it in that the system worked better 4 years ago. The waits today (2010) are a lot worse than 2006. This is currently at a peak for wait times. As they have cut back recruiting in the past few years the wait times should be dropping in a few more years. ROTP has a much lower wait because typically PFT is taken between 3rd and 4th year. That is why I have an OJT of 2+ years then I am off to BFT. Due to the back log some ROTP's aren't getting on to PFT until the fall after they graduate, then they start the 2 year wait. DEO's and CEOTP's have to go through SLT before they are put on the wait list for PFT. This wait is also about 2 years. If they can get on PFT-E then it may only be another 6 months but if they are going to BFT then it will be another 2 years. Add in course lengths and you have a time closing in on 6 to 7 years for wings.

 

[Beech Boy]

Brian_k, I'd like to thank you for your upfront posts regarding wait times for pilot. I am a DEO applicant that received a job offer and will start basic training in September. For me personally, the prospect of being any kind of pilot in the CF is too attractive to turn down even if it does take up to 7 years to get my wings. However, it is very relevant information for anyone considering pilot as a career option.

With that said, do you expect the fact that the CF did not hire any DEO pilots in 2009 to help with the backlog in any significant way for someone in my situation?

Thanks again.

 

[brian_k]

Beech Boy, the wait time should start to drop again but I can't see it returning anytime soon to what should be  resonable waits. If you don't care about getting jets then take the PFT-E option and this should limit your OJT time to 2 years. Last year they began a trial of sending 2 people to texas for a streamline to jets. This should be wraping up soon. It would take some of the pressure of Moose Jaw if they started sending more people but I have heard that it is not really feasable due to the high costs. OJT can be fun but just make sure that you talk to someone before you ask to be posted to a unit. Shredding paper gets boring fast. I hope tha I am wrong and that the wait times are fixed for you. Best of luck.

 

[MAJONES]

Beech,
I joined in Dec 05, got wings in July 09.  One thing to bear in mind is that the powers that be tend to quote conservative wait times.  I finished French Nov 06 and was told to expect Moose Jaw early 09.  As I worked through OJT my Moose Jaw date kept getting pushed forward and I wound up there in March 08 (just a year and a bit of OJT).  There was a back log at Moose Jaw, but steps have been taken to remedy that situation.  There will still be some waiting involved, but don't be surprised if things move a bit faster than the worst case scenarios you have been given.

 

[brian_k]

MAJONES

That is interesting to hear. I have experience the opposite. My date has been pushed back 3 times. I started off looking at 6 months and it eventually kept getting bumped back to two years. I think if it had started at 2 years would have been less stressful than seeing it continually get farther away.

If we can conclude one thing from our two experiences is that a lot can change in a few years. Right now the waits are extreme but hopefully by the time Beech is on the waiting list this will have been sorted out.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Supersonic, I'm not sure if you are trying to mislead people about current waits or just rubbing it in that the system worked better 4 years ago.

I am trying to prove a point.  Which is neighter.

The waits today (2010) are a lot worse than 2006. This is currently at a peak for wait times. As they have cut back recruiting in the past few years the wait times should be dropping in a few more years.

People that graduated from RMC a year before me waited for a year and a half before going to Moose Jaw.  I waited half that time.  The year before that, the wait was 0.  Waiting time varies a lot from year to year. 

Due to the back log some ROTP's aren't getting on to PFT until the fall after they graduate, then they start the 2 year wait.

I may be wrong about the current situation but the then training coordinator told us our Moose Jaw number was assigned as soon as we had a commission and in the pilot trade, regardless of wether or not you did PFT.  If your number came and you hadn't done PFT yet, you would go straight from Portage to Moose Jaw.

Add in course lengths and you have a time closing in on 6 to 7 years for wings.

6-7 years to wings is not too realistic.  You are DEO, your wait will be 2 years.  You'll get your wings 2 years later, that's 4 years.  In fact, I got my wings 1 year and 3 months after I started Moose Jaw.  Helo guys/Multi Guys got it at about the same time.  4-5 years may be more realistic, considering a 2 year wait before going to Moose Jaw.

Dude, I suggest you drop the attitude.  The attitudes doesn't you and your buddies any good, on course or on the job, except bringing the morale down.  See the positive side of the coin and make the best of every situation. 

 

[brian_k]

I am trying to prove a point.  Which is neighter.

Please explain.

Waiting time varies a lot from year to year.

You are correct. Me and my fellow OJT's are at the peak of the long waits. It will most likely improve.

I may be wrong about the current situation but the then training coordinator told us our Moose Jaw number was assigned as soon as we had a commission and in the pilot trade, regardless of wether or not you did PFT.  If your number came and you hadn't done PFT yet, you would go straight from Portage to Moose Jaw.

First hand I have not seen this happen. Do you have a REG to support this? I know more than a few people that would like to advance their position on the waiting list based on what you have described.

Dude, I suggest you drop the attitude.  The attitudes doesn't you and your buddies any good, on course or on the job, except bringing the morale down.  See the positive side of the coin and make the best of every situation.

You are right. We sit around and shoot the shite about our 2 to 4 year OJT (I'm not being sarcastic) and this brings morale down. What would you suggest we do to see the positive side of the coin? And please don't tell me this is a good time for OPME's cause that is just plain insulting.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Well...there is the "pensionable time" bone I'll throw out there and then disappear.

:blotto:

 

[SupersonicMax]

Do you have a REG to support this? I know more than a few people that would like to advance their position on the waiting list based on what you have described.

There is no Regulation, no rules.  It's whatever the training coordinator wants.  As I said, it's the way it was done when I went through. Don't know how it works now.  But that's not the point.

You are right. We sit around and shoot the shite about our 2 to 4 year OJT (I'm not being sarcastic) and this brings morale down.

Focusing on the negative and bitching will bring the morale down.  Try to see the positive side of OJTing.  It's not all that bad.

What would you suggest we do to see the positive side of the coin? And please don't tell me this is a good time for OPME's cause that is just plain insulting.

Dude, you have the more time now than you'll have in your career. Take time for yourself.  OPMEs, why would that be insulting?  I wish I had them finished 4 years ago when I had time.  Now I find myself scrambling to finish them, while I still have a bit of time.  Do you know the Emergency Actions of the Harvard II cold?  Do you know how to do a Point-to-Point?  Read about flying.  Go up on flights, try to get experience in the cockpit and try figuring out what's going on.  That will help you later during training.  That's what OJT is about.  Take advantage of that time.  Don't sit around and shoot the shit about how things suck for you.

I tell you that because it will not change.  There will always be "good" reasons to bitch.  You get to Moose Jaw and guess what.  You are the Junior course.  You hit the flight line but hardly fly.  You go flying and for whatever reason, you fucked up. Hard. "It was because of this and that, certainly not mine" 

Bitching and complaining won't get you anywhere, and will get you noticed. In a bad way.  Keep yourself busy, have some initiative, show a positive attitude.  Skills are about 20% of flying.  80% is the attitude, the strengh of character.

Life could be worst.  You could be working for a civilian operator making less than 20K a year loading Pop and Chips in the back of a Metroliner, waiting several years to get in the right seat of an airplane. You are making more than 40K a year (pensionable time, as EITS mentionned) and have damn good working conditions. 

If you don't like it, you can always sign the release papers.  Within 6 months, you'll be out the door working on your civilian career.

 

[Zoomie]

C'mon guys, life could always be a lot worse.  You could be posted to fly plastic jets and, by default, enjoy the company of other men.  >

 

[SupersonicMax]

Hey,  I'm not the one spending hours on end sitting by some other men, gossiping!  And I don't have to deal with Navs

 

[MAJONES]

And please don't tell me this is a good time for OPME's cause that is just plain insulting.

How about AFOD?

 

[Beech Boy]

Thanks again for the info guys. I can definitely see how having training dates continuously pushed back would be frustrating and that's why I'd like to reiterate how valuable it is for me to here about that first hand experience up front. Right now, I am trying to control my expectations regarding timeline so that I know what to expect and can accept it as positively as possible.

On a somewhat separate note. I read earlier in this thread that you would not be in line for PFT until you had completed second language training. However, my recruiter (who is a pilot) told me that second language training was secondary to flight training and it would be possible for SLT to be delayed if flight training is available or that you could even get pulled out of SLT for PFT. Can someone please clarify which is accurate.

As always, thanks for all of the information.

 

[MAJONES]

On a somewhat separate note. I read earlier in this thread that you would not be in line for PFT until you had completed second language training. However, my recruiter (who is a pilot) told me that second language training was secondary to flight training and it would be possible for SLT to be delayed if flight training is available or that you could even get pulled out of SLT for PFT. Can someone please clarify which is accurate.

It is possible, but don't expect it to happen.  A number of years ago there was a group of pilots that bypassed SLT and went straight to PFT.  That happened because the word came down to spool up pilot training and there were no warm bodies to fill the slots; they fixed this problem by taking people right after basic and sending them into flight training.  Since that time BMOQ has been turning out student pilots faster than Portage can absorb them. 

 

[Folgers]

On that note, how and when are your French skills assessed when determining if you need to go to SLT? I ask because I used to be pretty decent with French (I took French immersion), however, my skills have definitely gotten rusty over the years since then (10 years ago!). I’m scheduled for BMOQ Sept 27th, and wondering how much use there will be in working on my French over the summer. Do you need to be absolutely fluent? (not realistic for me). Also, is it always the full 8 months or is it possible to have this reduced somewhat if you already possess some ability in French.

Thanks.

 

[armyvern]

On that note, how and when are your French skills assessed when determining if you need to go to SLT? I ask because I used to be pretty decent with French (I took French immersion), however, my skills have definitely gotten rusty over the years since then (10 years ago!). I’m scheduled for BMOQ Sept 27th, and wondering how much use there will be in working on my French over the summer. Do you need to be absolutely fluent? (not realistic for me). Also, is it always the full 8 months or is it possible to have this reduced somewhat if you already possess some ability in French.

Thanks.

The "year long french course" is 9.5 months if you get the three BBBs on the first round of exams; if not, it's 10.5 months as you have to wait 30 days (and stay in class) to be retested in any exam you do not achieve the B in ...

You are able to make arrangements with the Language School at whichever base to arrange for profile examination and score. You do not have to undertake a french course to do that. In your case, you may manage to pull off BBBs or better without undergoing any course. They do also offer refresher courses - in which case you'd be tested by them simply for placement purposes into a refresher level prior to undergoing the PSAC ELS.

I started out at zero 9.5 months ago and did my exams over the last week. Two scores in (grammar & reading comprhension) ... just waiting for one more (oral) and then, knock knock knock, I am hopefully out of here.