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Snowbird Jet Crashes Into House in Kamloops- May 17 2020

Good2Golf

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See where FAcT goes, then assess.

That will likely happen before FFCP and FLIT are decided.  It will depend on whether Government of the day will be supportive of a ‘Tier 1’ jet-based display team, or consider/select transition to a ‘Tier 2’ turboprop display team.

In the mean time, DND is developing a project to extend the CT-114 to 2030.  Ref: CT-114 Life Extension Beyond 2020

Objective
To meet current and future regulatory requirements and life extend the CT-114 to 2030.

Requirements
This project will implement key upgrades to the aircraft in order to extend the estimated life of the Tutor beyond 2020. The project will assess future supportability issues of the CT114 fleet with respect to avionics, communications, and navigation systems and aircrew life support equipment.
 

Drallib

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SeaKingTacco said:
How about the RCAF focus its limited resources on delivering operational effects, rather than airshows?

I get that we (The CAF) need to be seen by the Canadian Public, but, honestly this discussion about an air display team jet replacement is a bit like discussing what type of horse the RCMP needs for the musical ride.

The real question should be: can the RCAF actually afford to try and keep up with the “big boys” (USN, USAF, RAF) with an air display team before we attend to our core mission of defending Canada?

Maybe if the RCMP had more horse musical rides, maybe their recruitment would be higher. Joking.

Is this high on the priority list? No.

After looking at previous incidents with the Snowbirds, before the last year, it looks like there haven't been any in almost a decade. I think with the last 2 being so close, and one soul lost, the emotion of it all makes people jump (myself included) to having a replacement jet. At the same time, I don't want them to wait for more planes or lives lost before they say, "Hey, maybe we should find a replacement."
 

SeaKingTacco

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Don’t get me wrong: I admire the skill level involved in what the Snowbirds do everyday. It is just that it comes with a very large opportunity cost and I fear that we (the CAF) will be forced into some very difficult choices in the very near future, due to the financial implications of COVID-19.

I think everything will shortly go on to the table for examination.
 

daftandbarmy

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I'm just terribly sad that we lost one, injured another seriously, and wrecked a residential area in a town I know fairly well with (thankfully) no additional loss of life.

My thoughts are with the aircrew and families impacted, and the commendable effort by the rescuers (many of them apparently civilians) to help our fallen in their time of need despite incurring some considerable danger to themselves.

Per Ardua Ad Astra everyone!  :cdnsalute:

 

PuckChaser

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Drallib said:
After looking at previous incidents with the Snowbirds, before the last year, it looks like there haven't been any in almost a decade. I think with the last 2 being so close, and one soul lost, the emotion of it all makes people jump (myself included) to having a replacement jet. At the same time, I don't want them to wait for more planes or lives lost before they say, "Hey, maybe we should find a replacement."

There's 3 listed on the DFS internet website:

http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/flight-safety/article-template-flight-safety.page?doc=ct1140071-tutor-from-the-investigator/k37g8df1
http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/flight-safety/article-template-flight-safety.page?doc=ct114009-tutor-epilogue/jydwt4nq
http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/flight-safety/article-template-flight-safety.page?doc=ct114058-tutor-epilogue/ig9v1a9l

The most recent was October 2019 (first link) with investigation focusing on engine mechanical issue and ejection sequence issues and was a total loss of the A/C. Even to the untrained eye, this recent accident has some obvious questions about ejection sequence (reports of Jenn's chute not being deployed) and issues with power/thrust. I have a feeling the current investigation on A/C 071 will probably help steer this current investigation to try to quickly find out if there's a common problem that needs to be addressed. If they can rule out a common problem, then perhaps the pitchforks go away on the "Replace the Snowbirds" crowd.

Thankfully the crash site was secured quickly, and due to the residential area and large push for Canadians to record/share video of the Snowbirds flying there's quite a bit of footage for the investigators to see. Rich is also expected to recover fully so he can help outline exactly what he was feeling/seeing which is unfortunately not the case in a lot of crashes.
 

MilEME09

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PuckChaser said:
The most recent was October 2019 (first link) with investigation focusing on engine mechanical issue and ejection sequence issues and was a total loss of the A/C. Even to the untrained eye, this recent accident has some obvious questions about ejection sequence (reports of Jenn's chute not being deployed) and issues with power/thrust. I have a feeling the current investigation on A/C 071 will probably help steer this current investigation to try to quickly find out if there's a common problem that needs to be addressed. If they can rule out a common problem, then perhaps the pitchforks go away on the "Replace the Snowbirds" crowd.

Thankfully the crash site was secured quickly, and due to the residential area and large push for Canadians to record/share video of the Snowbirds flying there's quite a bit of footage for the investigators to see. Rich is also expected to recover fully so he can help outline exactly what he was feeling/seeing which is unfortunately not the case in a lot of crashes.

They will either go away, or they will light the torches too. Thankfully they can interview the pilot once he recovers enough, hopefully his memory of the events leading upto the crash are good. He could also confirm what some people have been saying that he might of deliberately banked left towards a less populated part of Kamloops, The town is more densely populated directly parallel to the runway compared to the direction the plane went.
 

observor 69

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SeaKingTacco said:
Don’t get me wrong: I admire the skill level involved in what the Snowbirds do everyday. It is just that it comes with a very large opportunity cost and I fear that we (the CAF) will be forced into some very difficult choices in the very near future, due to the financial implications of COVID-19.

I think everything will shortly go on to the table for examination.

How about we settle for this: https://www.facebook.com/CF18Demo/
 

Eye In The Sky

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SeaKingTacco said:
Don’t get me wrong: I admire the skill level involved in what the Snowbirds do everyday. It is just that it comes with a very large opportunity cost and I fear that we (the CAF) will be forced into some very difficult choices in the very near future, due to the financial implications of COVID-19.

I think everything will shortly go on to the table for examination.

I agree;  however while the CAF may say "we can shut down the Snowbirds", I think the GoC will say "No".  They'll want them out there for 'whatever reason the GoC feel it is important to Canadians".
 

Quirky

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MilEME09 said:
He could also confirm what some people have been saying that he might of deliberately banked left towards a less populated part of Kamloops, The town is more densely populated directly parallel to the runway compared to the direction the plane went.

I’m not questioning his decision to turn left, but straight down the runway is a river, with a large island park further up, and to the right is pretty much nothing. Also, had they taken off west there is literally nothing out there but farmer fields.  :(
 

Remius

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Quirky said:
I’m not questioning his decision to turn left, but straight down the runway is a river, with a large island park further up, and to the right is pretty much nothing. Also, had they taken off west there is literally nothing out there but farmer fields.  :(

Maybe it wasn’t his decision to turn left.
 

Good2Golf

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Good2Golf said:
Gentle reminder regarding avoidance of speculation.

Discussion of factual (publicly available), non-sensitive information is fair, but be mindful of respecting official reports from DND/RCAF.

Milnet.ca Staff

Reminder2

Thanks all.


Milnet.ca Staff
 

NavyShooter

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An analysis by a former Snowbird pilot:

https://youtu.be/Xl7qOY2-o_Y

 

Navy_Pete

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Eye In The Sky said:
I agree;  however while the CAF may say "we can shut down the Snowbirds", I think the GoC will say "No".  They'll want them out there for 'whatever reason the GoC feel it is important to Canadians".

Given that HMCS Oriole survived when we were killing the funding for 280s, this seems likely.
 

Eye In The Sky

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Quirky said:
I’m not questioning his decision to turn left, but straight down the runway is a river, with a large island park further up, and to the right is pretty much nothing. Also, had they taken off west there is literally nothing out there but farmer fields.  :(

It sure seems like you are...

 

Drallib

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The video that NavyShooter shared of Vincent Aiello from the Fighter Pilot Podcast talking to former CO/Lead of the Snowbirds Robert Mitchell was great.

He shared an experience he personally had when the team was practicing. He had a bird strike and left the formation by gaining altitude immediately. As his engine failed, he was doing the emergency procedure to try and get it going again, at the same time checking his ejection system and also the surrounding area for a runway that was way off in the distance. But, he had altitude and energy (300 knots) on his side and was able to get the engine running just enough to make it to the distant runway.

What Capt Richard MacDougall did in that extremely short amount of time was remarkable in my opinion. Like most of you, I'll be eager to hear exactly what happened in those moments. It goes without saying we'll need patience as he recovers and will have to process what happened.
 

Quirky

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Eye In The Sky said:
It sure seems like you are...

The ego's on this forum are great representation of what's wrong in the military. They would rather make a snarky comment instead of moving along..
 

Eye In The Sky

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Quirky said:
The ego's on this forum are great representation of what's wrong in the military. They would rather make a snarky comment instead of moving along..

I'd label my comment more an 'observation' that was aimed to help you see the contradiction in your post;  "nothing said before but really matters" as the saying goes...

But, judging by your reaction, I'd say my comment was "on top". 

 
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