Robocall et al issue - Fed 2011 election

[Rifleman62]

Yes it was. I was being a smart ass. The info did not appear at the time to be available from the media big cheeses: CBC/CTV/G & M etc.

 

[a_majoor]

It's all good. Just be sure to pass the article around and tell all your friends. We don't really need the CBC or CTV to break stories nationally anymore, do we?

 

[Rifleman62]

Incredible. Well not really.

http://paulsrants-paulsstuff.blogspot.com/2012/03/bob-rae-and-susan-delacourts-idea-of.html

Wednesday, March 14, 2012

Bob Rae And Susan Delacourt's Idea Of Transparency?

So we have Bob Rae now boasting about how transparent the Liberals are being over the robocall controversy, and pointing out that the Liberals have turned over their records to EC regarding the calls they made and the scripts. And he's been backed up in print and on twitter by the usual suspects, including Susan Delacourt, who somehow always seems to infer, I doubt accidentally, that the CPC are not being forthright in releasing information to EC.

So how transparent are the Liberals really being? We already know they contravened EC laws with their own robocall in Guelph, ground zero you can call it. So I would think they themselves would be forthright in aiding the investigation, right? Think again!

"Speaking to reporters later, Mr. Rae acknowledged the bounty of materials provided to Elections Canada did not include information on a Liberal robo-call in Guelph that attacked Conservative candidate Marty Burke for his stand on abortion.

“That was a local call that doesn’t have much to do with the national campaign,” Mr. Rae said.

So a robocall that violated election laws need not be included in the investigation. Kind of reminds me of the transparency afforded justice Gomery in the Adscam inquiry. Most Canadians have no idea that the terms of reference did not allow Gomery to look at any sponsorship contracts already under investigation by the RCMP.

Now I know the lefty apologists will be along shortly to say the CPC are hiding something. To that end I give you this regarding the robocall investigation:

"Elections Canada is combing through internal Conservative Party e-mails and database records as it tries to close in on Guelph robo-call scammer “Pierre Poutine,” sources said.
The election watchdog has gained access to the electronic logs that track who drew down information from the party’s database of voters in the riding of Guelph during the 2011 campaign. "

"Conservative Party spokesman Fred DeLorey said the party has willingly turned over confidential records to Elections Canada to help its probe in Guelph. The party has not been served with a court order requiring it to do so.
“We have proactively reached out to Elections Canada and offered to assist them in any way we can,” Mr. DeLorey said. “That includes handing over any documents or records that may assist them.”

That's called real transparency folks. Not some convoluted BULLSHIT that Rae and the media try to brainwash. The actual Canadians who are looking for democracy deserve better, something Delacourt and her brethren don't appear to care about.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Yes it was. I was being a smart ass. The info did not appear at the time to be available from the media big cheeses: CBC/CTV/G & M etc.

Why would it be. It's anti Liberal. The big cheeses aren't going to show their darlings in a bad light now, are they? 

 

[ModlrMike]

More fingers pointing at Elections Canada:

Voter fraud concerns in east Toronto widespread

 

[Fishbone Jones]

It would appear, now that it is the liberals that seem to have the most documented history in the Robocall kerfuffle, Rae has changed tact. He doesn't want to talk about it anymore or answer questions on the wrongdoing and deception foisted on Canadians by the 'Natural Governing Party'. His party's lies, he considers mere 'oversights' : not worthy of any more press or discussion anymore.

He's totally pushed the current unfounded attacks off the table and has dragged out the F-35 story again. Accusing the CPC of everything short of a delivery date.

Just proves that the only agenda the (election) losers have is one of attack. No national vision or agenda. No way forward for the country, no means of solving any problems. No ideas or solutions. Just a lot of white noise from the peanut gallery. A kennel full of yappy, little purse dogs.

Not one single thing to qualify them to lead the country.

Just that they believe that they should still be in charge, because they think they're the only ones that should be allowed to lead.

Of course, the Media Party is all too willing to support them by dropping the Robocall blip and giving full coverage to Rae's latest fishing trip in Lake Bullshit.

 

[a_majoor]

It would be nice to give them a taste of their own medicine. Call local talk radio shows and keep asking questions about Liberal Robocalls. Write letters to the editor. Email your MP, and especially keep emailing Liberal MP's and Elections Canada demanding to know the truth about Liberal Robocalls.

Rubbing their faces in it is probably the best medicine. If they are smart, they will quit going off half cocked. Since that is not too likely, it may goad them into paroxysms of stupid even greater than today, totally alienating potential voters, contribute rs, volunteers and candidates. I'll go with either outcome.

 

[a_majoor]

Another verifiable Robocall complaint. I doubt Bob Rae or the Legacy Media want to touch this one:

http://paulsrants-paulsstuff.blogspot.com/2012/03/open-invitation-to-terry-milewski.html

An Open Invitation To Terry Milewski

I see your most recent piece of journalism indicates that the victims of robocalls were voters who had previously indicated to the Conservative Party they would not be supporting them in the election. A few points Terry. I myself received a phone call telling me my polling location had changed. The CPC knew I was supporting them. I had confirmed that previously when contacted by the party. I had a Chris Alexander lawn sign. Close relatives worked on Alexander's campaign, being at the campaign office every day. I myself did some volunteer work.

I also attended the two appearances by the PM. The first one was at the Deer Creek convention center. Matter of fact, I sat about 10 feet to your right, sitting beside the media table. I also attended the invitation only event at Chris Alexanders campaign office near the end of the campaign. I also received multiple calls a few days before the elction supposedly from the conservative campaign office. These calls were annoying. Right at dinner time or later in the evening. People who worked at the campaign office received similar complaints from other party supporters. That's right. Voters who the party had identified as supporters received harassing or misleading phone calls. The thing is those calls were not made by the party.

Here's the thing Terry. Can I call you Terry? Whenever I received a legitimate call from the national campaign, the name on the call display would read Conservative Party of Canada. If it was a robocall it would be a recording by the PM. When I received a legitimate call from the local campaign the call display read Chris Alexander. The voice would be Chris Alexander's. Those annoying calls? They had area codes I'm not familiar with. No 905, 416, 519, etc., and no name displayed.

Here's the thing Terry. I'm willing to sign any release necessary to allow Elections Canada to access my phone records. Need an affidavit signed? Just pass me the pen. I know other Conservative supporters who also received similar phone calls. While I can't speak for them, I'm sure if I contact them they would be likely to follow my lead.

By the way Terry, I just wonder if you actually believe every one of those 31,000, oops, sorry, I mean 700 alleged complaints are legitimate. I just want to be on the record here Terry, be upfront and honest, and let you know I was actually in the PROVINCE at the time.

If you would like to discuss any of the information posted here, feel free to contact me at paulsblues45@hotmail.com

 

[larry Strong]

Well here we go.....
Reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from Sun News

Elections Canada tosses 30,300 bogus 'contacts'

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2012/03/20120316-160926.html

OTTAWA - Elections Canada has whittled down a campaign of manufactured outrage over voting irregularities to 700 real or imagined complaints - a far cry from the 31,000 contacts it sifted through.

But the agency can't say how many of the mischief complaints it has received - through what a QMI Agency investigation found was a deliberate attempt to muddy the waters - are "fraudulent or improper." Nor would it say how many of the country's 308 ridings had complaints from the May 2 election.

Chief Electoral Officer Marc Mayrand cautioned against reading too much into the numbers until the investigation is completed.

"I advise caution about drawing conclusions based on possibly inaccurate and incomplete information," he said.
His warning fell on deaf ears in the Commons, with the NDP saying there were 700 cases of fraud even though Elections Canada has come to no such conclusions - including about the official Opposition's own participation in alleged misconduct.

The NDP, Liberals and Conservatives have been trading barbs and accusations for the past few weeks in the Commons since an investigation of fraudulent phone calls to misdirect voters to the wrong polls in Guelph, Ont., resurfaced.

All three major parties have been accused of dirty tricks - from nuisance and fraudulent phone calls to stacking voter lists.

NDP MP Pat Martin is the only MP so far being sued in the melodrama playing out on Parliament Hill for suggesting a telecom firm that provides robocalling services was involved in nefarious activities. The suit calls for $5 million in damages.

He was also forced to publicly apologize to another firm for similar accusations.

I really like this part "a campaign of manufactured outrage " . Funny that it has not shown up on any of the other news outlets..........

 

[a_majoor]

A Conservative candidate explains how things work at ground level:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/03/15/andrea-mandel-campbell-the-great-robocalling-scandal-is-a-fraud/

Andrea Mandel-Campbell: The great robocalling scandal is a fraud
National Post  Mar 15, 2012 – 9:44 AM ET | Last Updated: Mar 15, 2012 11:25 AM ET

Andrea Mandel-Campbell
   
When I ran for the Ontario Conservatives in the province’s 2011 election, one of the very first things I learned at candidate school last summer was to never, ever, spend more than a minute talking to any voter at his or her door. And under no circumstances was I to enter someone’s home. There was, of course, the security aspect. But more than anything, I was warned, opposition supporters would use any chance to waylay me and waste my time, asking endless questions or inviting me in. They wanted to stop the most effective way I had of getting votes: meeting thousands of people at the doors of their homes.

As a political rookie — this was my first time running in an election — I was taken aback by the ready acknowledgement that campaigns could be dirty and devious. I had covered all kinds of political trickery as a journalist in Latin America; in Mexico, politicians would openly buy supporters everything from corn meal to vacuum cleaners, and fraud was common. But I was surprised to find that my normally stolid, somewhat sanctimonious Canadian compatriots also could be eager for this kind of warfare.

All this said, having experienced a political campaign from the inside, and covered it from the outside as a journalist, I believe my colleagues in the media have completely lost their bearings in their glee to uncover a grand robo-conspiracy that allegedly endangers the very pillars of our democracy. (The CBC’s Evan Solomon even argued Canadians could learn something from the decades long military suppression in Burma, although he was quick to say the conditions are very different.) I know not much happens in Canada. But how is it that we are now organizing protest rallies across the country over an amateurish Guelph, Ont. scheme that likely was the brainchild of a single guy who called himself Pierre Poutine?

There is no evil genius at work here, I regret to inform the conspiracy theorists. The backroom strategists and war-room gurus are not half as smart as people seem to think they are. Let’s take the 31,000 reports that Elections Canada apparently has received from voters claiming they have received some kind of harassing or misinforming call from a political party. Putting aside the fact that many of these likely are the result of a form-letter campaign, this is hardly unusual. When I went door to door, by far the biggest complaint I received about my campaign was the constant, harassing phone calls. Voters threatened not to support me if they received one more annoying robocall or solicitation for money. Candidates, including myself, begged the central campaign to cut down on the calls. We were told there was nothing they could do. It happens everywhere, all the time.

The day of Jack Layton’s funeral, I decided not to canvass out of respect. The next day, I went door knocking and was attacked by a furious voter who said he had received three calls from the PC party during the funeral. I had just lost his vote. I called campaign headquarters demanding an explanation. No one knew anything. I was told the voter was probably making it up and was never going to vote for me anyway. Members of my volunteer team just shook their heads. If this were a Liberal strategy to turn off Conservative voters it would have been very effective.

Did we call Jewish voters on the Sabbath? I am sure we did. We even went canvassing in a Jewish neighbourhood on a Friday night. None of my volunteers that evening were Jewish, and when I arrived at the canvas I noticed that half the doors had mezuzahs. The non-Jews, worried about offending anyone, decided to avoid the Jewish doors. I’m Jewish; and I thought that since we were there, we might as well knock (it was not an orthodox neighbourhood). Were we secretly working for the Liberals? Maybe we should have been. Was it a less-than-strategic decision to canvass there? Definitely.

I was out door-knocking because that’s the only way to actually identify your voters — get their names, telephone numbers, find out how many supporters in the household there are, and hopefully get them to take a lawn sign. It’s a monumental task fraught with mistakes. The electoral lists you are given, which combine names and addresses with party records of voter support, are hopelessly inaccurate and outdated. They often include long-dead relatives or homeowners dating back a decade. Your volunteers, many of whom have never canvassed before or don’t speak English as a first language, must then try to extract up-to-date information from suspicious voters who often, themselves, don’t speak English as a first language.

The idea that this is some kind of precision, high-tech machine — which breathless journalists covering the robo-call scandal seem to assume — is absurd. I started out with about 3,000 identified voters and needed to identify about 15,000 if I had a chance of winning (in the end, I did not). Dissuading Liberals from voting with disingenuous phone calls would not have made a difference. More importantly, my campaign, which was well-funded and well-staffed — we were a so-called “target riding” — didn’t have resources to spare.

And those resources would have been wasted if we had spent them on spurious robo-calls. Out of a list of say, 1,000 phone numbers of supposed opposition supporters that you would get off a voters’ list, probably half are wrong. Another 10% to 15% are faxes, business lines and cell phones. For the other 35%, you don’t know who is picking up the phone — the kids, the grandmother — and who actually listens instead of hanging up. My former campaign manager estimates it’s less than 5%.

It seems like a lot of effort for a questionable return. Which is why there is a lot of innuendo flying around, but no burning proof of a grand conspiracy. Outside of Guelph, where Mr. Poutine was hard at work, we are hearing about one call here, half-a-dozen calls there. Were these calls really faked efforts to confuse opposition supporters, or were they the much more mundane consequence of a disorganized campaign? When each riding has tens of thousands of voters, you have to wonder.

That is not to say that an element of thuggish behaviour doesn’t exist. Political parties are very tribal, and an election is a form of war. Every army has its so-called “black ops,” and any opportunity to wound the enemy is seen as fair game. But the real concern isn’t so much vote suppression as the more insidious guerrilla tactics that are used to distort messages and stifle debate.

In my case, my party advised me against attending a debate being held in a part of the riding that was a stronghold for the Liberal incumbent, Kathleen Wynne, who is now Ontario’s Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. I was told it would be a hostile crowd stacked with her supporters. If I went, I would be attacked, the media would have a field day and my morale would be in tatters. There was no upside. Before the debate, a women identifying herself as a “concerned citizen” called my office wanting to know why I was discriminating against that part of the riding, which was poorer and more ethnically diverse. I went to her house to try and speak with her, thinking she was genuinely troubled. What I encountered was a very partisan, very angry Liberal supporter who would have spit venom at me if she could have. It turned out she was one of the organizers of the debate.

If I had doubts about whether to attend the debate, I didn’t anymore. It would be like walking into an ambush. The Liberals, of course, knew I wouldn’t go and proceeded to spin my absence as proof I didn’t care about the less well-heeled part of the riding. That I was the only candidate who had actually lived and worked in developing countries such as Peru, Bolivia and Mexico, with poverty issues more serious than those in Canada, seemed somewhat ironic to me.

There is no question that the state of politics in Canada leaves something to be desired. But given the appallingly low voter turnout of 49% in Ontario’s last provincial election, I have to wonder how many people protesting against voter suppression actually cast a ballot in a recent election. Perhaps people would be more inclined to vote if they weren’t being harassed by annoying campaign calls that political strategists think are so important.

Here’s to hoping robocalling dies a quick death. Maybe it could be replaced with 21st-century voting methods, like internet voting, long promised in Ontario. That would render Mr. Poutine’s efforts to send voters to the wrong polling booth moot.

National Post

 

[The Bread Guy]

I really like this part "a campaign of manufactured outrage " . Funny that it has not shown up on any of the other news outlets..........

In fact, on CBC Radio's "The House" this morning, they went back to the "30,000 complaints" story line (I noticed last week, they generally stuck with the "contacts" terminology).

 

[ModlrMike]

A quite rational interpretation. Unfortunately, because she's conservative she will:

a) be called a liar;
b) be made fun of or otherwise denigrated;
c) become the subject of personal attacks; or
d) all of the above.

 

[Kalatzi]

And Here's Rick Mercer and his latest Rant.

Maybe he will punch himself in the face.

Not that a Royal Commission is likely to happen any time soon.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/03/21/rick-mercer-robocalls-rant_n_1369483.html?ref=canada#s800145&title=Joel_Robinson

 

[a_majoor]

And now the actual totals of complaints received right after the election. Notice the number of complaints received WRT the totally illeagal polling station set up at Guelph (guess by which party) vs complaints about calls:

http://plattytalk.blogspot.ca/2012/03/how-many-complaints.html

How many complaints??

The Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections sent me an email today. I had originally sent a request to the Commissioners office on March 7/2012, asking if they could confirm the total number of true complaints they had received immediately following the election. So, here it is, fifteen days later and they send me a link to a report that came out last August 17th, long time to send a link, but, I guess they have a ton of emails to go through, I mean, Elections Canada would have no reason to suppress that information, would they? Anyway, here are the numbers that I found in the report they wrote up this past August.

    Electoral law enforcement

    The Commissioner of Canada Elections is the independent officer who ensures compliance with and enforces the Canada Elections Act and the Referendum Act.

    During the 41st general election, the Commissioner's Office received:

    • 1,003 communications or referrals that required individual responses

    • 2,956 e-mails regarding the application of the Special Voting
    Rules at the University of Guelph not require individual responses.

    • more than 700 e-mails about an alleged violation of the blackout period as a result of a radio interview that was broadcast on election day (however, there was no violation of the Canada Elections Act)

    The Commissioner's Office dealt with the majority of the 1,003 communications in a timely manner by verifying the complaint, providing the requested information, contacting the parties to correct the situation or educating the parties involved on the requirements of the Canada Elections Act. Most of these complaints concerned one of the following categories:

    • the legality of certain activities undertaken
    during the election

    • the absence of authorization statements in
    election advertising

    • election advertising that appeared to be paid for by the government or appeared to provide an advantage to incumbents campaigning in certain locations, such as malls and apartment buildings

    • unsolicited telephone calls

    • automated telephone messages

    • signs placed without permission

    • crank calls

So, immediately following the election, Elections Canada received 2,956 e-mails regarding the application of the Special Voting Rules at the University of Guelph, or, in other words, three times the amount of "communications or referrals" they received in which the category containing the "Robocalls" was included, along with six other categories! Which again begs the question, how many of these communications actually involved "Robocalls"?

Of course, those still wanting to bang the "Robocall" drum will say that it doesn't matter if people are only now coming forward with complaints, that it doesn't matter they are only now remembering those calls, or that no one has actually come forward to say that their vote had been compromised by such a call. No, they will only say that the Conservatives stole the election with their acts of Electoral fraud. Which is truly an amazing feat, because it looks like they would have had to do this by committing this alleged fraud on less than 1000 Canadian voters. "Nixonian" moment Bob Rae? Sorry, just another bad moment for this governments opposition and their media minions.

 

[a_majoor]

More facts about the "robocalls" surface. If anything, this is starting to look like some sort of operation run by the LPC, which may explain why the issue has been dropped like a hot rock by the Legacy Media and the LPC in the House:

http://pragmatictory.blogspot.ca/2012/03/pierre-poutine-recorded-vote-liberal.html

Pierre Poutine Recorded "Vote Liberal" Message

In an interesting turn of events, the infamous "Pierre Poutine" (allegedly responsible for the supposedly "greatest electoral fraud in Canadian history") also recorded a message supporting Liberal candidate Frank Valeriote in Guelph. I'm not sure why a Conservative operative would want to encourage people to vote Liberal, but the recording is attached to the account. Batman and Robin (aka Maher and MacGregor) have theorized that the purpose of the call (which was recorded but never sent out) was intended to annoy Liberal supporters. This argument is a bit hypocritical considering the Liberals themselves sent out thousands of robocalls encouraging people to vote Liberal, not all of which were legal according to election law. If sending out robot calls saying "vote Liberal" will discourage liberals from voting, then why would the Liberals send out their own robocalls encouraging people to vote Liberal?

The true identity of Pierre Poutine remains a mystery, at least to the public. Supposedly Elections Canada already knows who he is and aren't releasing his identity until they have completed their investigation.

Regardless, this story just got a lot more interesting...

 

[ModlrMike]

So both the Globe and Mail and the National Post reported the same story... with vastly different conclusions.

Judge for yourself:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/pierre-poutine-taped-election-call-impersonating-liberals/article2379712/

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/23/pierre-poutine-recorded-robocall-on-that-appeared-to-be-from-liberal-elections-canada/

Fog sanity sake don't read the comments.

 

[larry Strong]

I wonder what he will have to say....

Reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from CBC


http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/03/26/pol-elections-canada-committee-thursday.html

[size=12pt]Elections Canada chief to brief MPs on robocalls Thursday[/size]

Canadians may get more information on the fraudulent robocalls controversy as the head of Elections Canada appears before MPs later this week.

Chief Electoral Officer Marc Mayrand will appear before the procedure and House affairs committee Thursday morning after putting out a statement asking for the chance to update MPs about the ongoing investigation in Guelph, Ont. coming out of the May 2, 2011 election.

A notice for the committee meeting says the subject is "allegations of wrongdoing" during the 41st general election.

Mayrand's appearance, the timing of which was decided by the committee's Conservative chairman Joe Preston, comes at a time when many reporters will be "locked up" in the annual federal budget briefing, without access to the internet, and on a day when a lot of the public's attention will be on the budget.

Elections Canada has spent almost a year piecing together evidence in an attempt to track the source of fraudulent phone calls, claiming to be on behalf of the election agency, that directed voters in Guelph to the wrong polling station.

Reports of similar calls, both automated and live, have since surfaced in other ridings.

But the agency has answered few questions, citing the investigation, leaving many hungry for more information.

In the March 15 statement, in which Mayrand asked for the chance to update MPs, he urged Canadians not to jump to conclusions.

"Like all law enforcement bodies, the office of the commissioner generally does not disclose information on its investigative activities in order to protect the presumption of innocence and privacy," he said.

"In this regard, I advise caution about drawing conclusions based on possibly inaccurate and incomplete information."

 

[Rifleman62]

Larry Strong

I wonder what he will have to say....

Duh, we don't know who is responsible, while hinting it's an evil plot hatched personally by the scary Harper, left unsaid, is that the evidence points to the Liberals. The Parliamentary Budget Officer, who is not involved in any of the investigations,  will state categorically the money trail ends at the desk of that ruffian, Harper.

The Media Party, led by those stalwarts of ethical reporting, the CBC, will wet themselves without the use of a single hand or digit.

 

[Kalatzi]

Robo-call complaints received from about 200 ridings: Elections Canada

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/robo-call-complaints-received-from-about-200-ridings-elections-canada/article2385679/

Total of about 800 actual complaints, mostly Guelph, so on average 3 a riding?

They are continuing to investigate. Also making proposals to limit impact in next election, and make abuses easier to prosecute.

 

[Sythen]

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120424/robocalls-ekos-poll-council-canadians-120424/

A survey conducted by a large Canadian polling firm shows a pattern of misleading phone calls during last May's federal election that appears to have targeted opposition supporters.

Ekos Research Associates says its survey found that Liberal, NDP and Green party supporters in seven key ridings were much more likely to report receiving a misleading telephone call in the final days of the election than Conservative supporters in the ridings.

The calls would appear to be from Elections Canada or the campaign office of a local candidate and would include erroneous information about changes in voting station locations.



Read more: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120424/robocalls-ekos-poll-council-canadians-120424/#ixzz1t0dPO1ZU

More on link. This is getting ridiculous.. As one of the comments points out:

There is no need to use recalled information in the first place. Since there is a database of those who were called, there is factual data available as to who was called from the initiating numbers. Another piece of factual data will be how many of those who were called actually did vote. Bet this will be an example in social science classrooms for decades. Comparisons between those who said they were called, and those who actually were called, studies on those who claimed to be called, but weren't, those who remembered the calls and those who didn't etc. Where is the data showing who authorized the calls? The data showing who among those who remembered getting the calls voted anyway? It's easy to make statements. But why not use available data???????