Retired general claims $72K in moving expenses (CTV)

[DAA]

Agent in the family or not, that real-estate agent's fees would be their INCOME (and is taxable).

Having any sort of family member/relative involved, whether it is their profession or not, is delicate but it can be done.  The only exceptions to such cases are if the person is already "registered" with Brookefield Relocation Services and their name is on the "3rd Party Supplier List", then it would be allowable.  If they are not registered, then they shouldn't be used.

Arm's Length Transaction (as it relates to 3rd Party Suppliers who are NOT on the listing)
An arm's length transaction is one that is consummated between two or more non-related parties as per Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) interpretation. Related individuals include:

direct-line descendants, as well as spouse or common law partners, brothers, sisters, and in-laws; and
non-immediate family members such as cousins, aunts, uncles, nephews and nieces.

Edit - my original post has been cleaned up to be more reflective of currently available policy guidance.

 

[Container]

It was unfair for me to introduce that. There is currently no evidence of that....just curious. But that was inappropriate for "public" pondering

Maybe a trim of this thread, at least my "contribution" is in order before that gets legs?

 

[armyvern]

No it wouldn't..............and having any sort of family member/relative involved, whether it is their profession or not, is a BIG fat NO NO!!!

:alarm:

Arm's Length Transaction
An arm's length transaction is one that is consummated between two or more non-related parties as per Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) interpretation. Related individuals include:

direct-line descendants, as well as spouse or common law partners, brothers, sisters, and in-laws; and

non-immediate family members such as cousins, aunts, uncles, nephews and nieces.

Are you claiming that he used a family member as part of his process?

If my father is selling his house, I can't buy it?  If my father is a real estate agent, I can't use him to buy/sell and him get the same flat % fee each and every other real-estate agent would get for same service as long as he claims that flat-fee as his income for CRA purposes?? Are you claiming that the Timmies that my daughter served me at Tim Hortons, for which I paid for and for which place she earned income at for CRA purposes, is suspect because she is my daughter? My father is dead by the way; my daughter is alive.

 

[Journeyman]

.... brothers, sisters, and in-laws.....cousins, aunts, uncles, nephews and nieces.

Great, now I've got Aerosmith's "Walk This Way" stuck in my head.... 

....and the best thing lovin' was your sister and your cousin.... then my next door neighbor had a daughter, had a favour...... 

 

[Edward Campbell]

The Liberal Party of Canada Convention takes place in Montreal this week.

LGen (ret'd) Leslie is scheduled to speak twice on Friday:

12:15 pm – 12:45 pm Lt. General (retired) Andrew Leslie ~ this is the Keynote address to one of the Convention's Plenary sessions
Room 517
Introduction by Harjit Singh Sajjan

5:15 pm – 6:15 pm DELEGATE SESSIONS
Canada’s Role in Shaping a More Prosperous & Peaceful World
Room 520
  Moderator: Marc Garneau, MP
      Lt. General (retired) Andrew Leslie
      Peter Harder, Senior Policy Advisor to Dentons Canada LLP
      Farah Mohamed, President and CEO, G(irls) 20
      Rana Sarkar, National Director of High Growth Markets, KPMG Canada

 

[DAA]

Are you claiming that he used a family member as part of his process?

If my father is selling his house, I can't buy it?  If my father is a real estate agent, I can use him to buy/sell and him get the same flat % fee each and every other real-estate agent would get for same service? Are you claiming that the Timmies that my daughter served me at Tim Hortons, for which I paid for and for which place she earned income at for CRA purposes, is suspect because she is my daughter? My father is dead by the way; my daughter is alive.

The policy has become slightly more liberal over the years.  You can engage any 3rd Party Service Provider who is "registered" with Brookefield Relocation Services and the CFIRP Program.  What you cannot do, is pick a 3rd Party Service Provider who is NOT registered and who falls within the definition of "Arms Length".  You could use a parent, spouse, sibling, etc but ONLY if they appear on the list.  Years ago, it was a definite NO NO but through various levels of review, the policy was amended to allow such things.

So, if your father was a Real Estate Agent by profession and his name was on the list of 3rd Party Suppliers, you could use his services.

2.7.01 Selection of Third party supplier

Reimbursement for services provided shall not exceed pre-negotiated rates where the Third party supplier has been engaged by the service provider as part of the tendering process.

CF members may choose their own Third party suppliers not included in the directory of Third party suppliers provided they are at arm's length.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Do not confuse "arms length transaction" for tax purposes, "conflict of interests" and the very definition of arms length transactions in various other policies.

In the actual world, there is nothing illegal in making arms length transactions. For instance, I can hire my family members that carry on a liberal profession to render whatever service I may require of them and they are allowed to bill me for fair cost of the services.

The TB policies on these types of service rendered to civil servants and military personnel, however, excludes their use in certain circumstances, and that is only  matter of policy.

For tax purposes, again, arms length transaction are legal but, are not recognized as transaction that can be set off against the "tax man" if their effect is to reduce improperly the amount of income tax payable: i.e. if it splits income to avoid higher bracket of taxation for example.

In a case such as the one discussed here (and purely on the theoretical side as we have no idea what took place), it is the TB policy that determines whether an arms length transaction is permissible or not, since the operation contemplated would not result in any tax avoidance or reduction: The CF member would have his/her move paid under the policy and taxed or tax exempted, as the case may be, regardless of who is hired as Realtor. And the "arms length" realtor would have his/her commission fully taxed as any other such income.

 

[Container]

I'm unsure of how to read that oldgate- is it or is it not possible? For some reason I keep reading your explanation as both yes and no?

 

[Navy_Pete]

I still don't see why it matters if he moved next door or two hours away; 95% of the costs are real estate/lawyer fees, which would be the same regardless of location.  My last move was about half of that value by the time everything was factored in, and only a small portion was due to the distance.

I'm sure each and every MP gets close to this in their expense claims every friggen year just for coming to Ottawa for a few months a year, so they may want to watch their glass house.

ps I don't even particularly like Mr. Leslie, but this is BS.

 

[Lightguns]

CTV Atlantic was saying tonight that he seems to have moved from a Tory riding to a Liberal stronghold riding.  I guess they are setting him up for a run.  They were also looking into his net worth (which is considerable).

 

[PuckChaser]

CTV Atlantic was saying tonight that he seems to have moved from a Tory riding to a Liberal stronghold riding.  I guess they are setting him up for a run.  They were also looking into his net worth (which is considerable).

Just what Canadians need, another parachute candidate. Didn't we learn anything from the NDP vacation MPs?

 

[dapaterson]

Andrew Cohen has published his thoughts on this:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/revealing+attack+Andrew+Leslie/9517123/story.html

But that’s not really the story, is it? The story here has less to do with General Leslie than Citizen Leslie, or perhaps, in the future, Minister Leslie. It’s about politics.

While Rob Nicholson asks his officials to explain this long-standing government policy — one he could have changed but hasn’t — here are a few questions for him.

Why is Andrew Leslie the first veteran to come under this kind of public scrutiny? Is $72,000 egregious? If so, what is the average figure for moves involving such neighbourhoods?

And how is it that Leslie’s expenses found their way to CTV News, which first reported this on the weekend? Is there a breach of privacy in your department, Minister? Your office suggested the document was acquired under the Access to Information Act, but CTV did not.

 

[cavalryman]

CTV Atlantic was saying tonight that he seems to have moved from a Tory riding to a Liberal stronghold riding.  I guess they are setting him up for a run.  They were also looking into his net worth (which is considerable).

Rockliffe being in the Ottawa-Vanier riding, I'm sure it will come as a surprise to the incumbent MP, Liberal Mauril Belanger, who has represented the riding since 1995, that the good general is being set to take over

 

[FJAG]

Aaaaaand we're off!

"Defence Department covered disgraced general’s $40,000 move to UAE

National Defence paid nearly $40,000 to move a disgraced general to the United Arab Emirates after he was court-martialled for having sex with a subordinate and trying to cover it up, expense records for the military’s top brass show.

The revelation about former brigadier-general Dan Menard is in the same set of records that show retired lieutenant-general Andrew Leslie was allowed to claim more than $72,000 for a move within Ottawa after he left the military.

... "

Full article here:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/defence-department-covered-disgraced-generals-40000-move-to-uae/article16923408/

op:

:cheers:

 

[Lightguns]

I am sure Mr Belanger will be most accepting of a position as a non-Liberal Liberal senator!

 

[Occam]

So that's what it sounds like when a benefit goes poof right in front of your eyes...

 

[PuckChaser]

"Defence Department covered disgraced general’s $40,000 move to UAE

We're also paying his pension and he got severance as well. The guy wasn't a murderer, he gets to keep some benefits.... Media.  :facepalm:

 

[Lightguns]

Aaaaaand we're off!

"Defence Department covered disgraced general’s $40,000 move to UAE

National Defence paid nearly $40,000 to move a disgraced general to the United Arab Emirates after he was court-martialled for having sex with a subordinate and trying to cover it up, expense records for the military’s top brass show.

The revelation about former brigadier-general Dan Menard is in the same set of records that show retired lieutenant-general Andrew Leslie was allowed to claim more than $72,000 for a move within Ottawa after he left the military.

... "

Full article here:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/defence-department-covered-disgraced-generals-40000-move-to-uae/article16923408/

op:

:cheers:

Ahhh ole' wrong way hat never seems to get a break.  Hiding in the UAE to avoid the ex and still can't fly under the radar!

 

[The Bread Guy]

And a bit of the bigger picture ....

The Conservative government is reviewing its pricey policy of paying to move retired military members to new houses within the same city, as documents released to Global News through Access to Information show these moves are costing National Defence hundreds of thousands of dollars.

National Defence has paid nearly $600,000 to move Generals, many of them retired, within the same city or just outside the city limits over the past five years, according to the documents ....

Do we have a feeding frenzy smiley?

 

[Jarnhamar]

So it's cheaper to move to the UAE than a couple blocks in Ottawa? Sounds about right.