Retired general claims $72K in moving expenses (CTV)

[4Feathers]

Or perhaps this whole thing was just orchestrated as a PR stunt before the TB cuts or modifies yet another one of our benefits.  IR benefits and severance pay come to mind....

 

[Transporter]

I was posted last APS to a new geographical location inside the same province.  We bought a new home, stayed in hotels, had cleaners in at the residence we vacated, got misc expenses, put my posting allowance into a spousal RRSP, had lawyers fees paid for, home inspections, deed transfers etc.

How come *I* never made it into the news dammit?  :tempertantrum:

You did... you're not getting any new airplanes  ;D

 

[Transporter]

Or perhaps this whole thing was just orchestrated as a PR stunt before the TB cuts or modifies yet another one of our benefits.  IR benefits and severance pay come to mind....

And don't forget about pension contribution increases as well as PSHCP premium increases in retirement... to name a few more.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

You did... you're not getting any new airplanes  ;D

Well played!!!  :blotto:

 

[George Wallace]

And don't forget about pension contribution increases as well as PSHCP premium increases in retirement... to name a few more.

The Pension claw back at age 65 really gets my goat.

Now back to the optics of a $72K moving expense.

 

[Monsoon]

Or perhaps this whole thing was just orchestrated as a PR stunt before the TB cuts or modifies yet another one of our benefits.  IR benefits and severance pay come to mind....

I think this is considerably more about sending a nice little "welcome to politics" message to the future Liberal candidate in Ottawa-Orleans. If he thought he was going to run on the strength of his leaked cost-cutting report, he's going to be doing so on a back foot now.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Thank you for that link.  It qualifies many of the posts that followed.

It really doesn't matter on what rank a member retires at after over ten years of service; according to the directive any move will be a fairly expensive cost.  Movers are not cheap.  Realtors (X2) are not cheap.  Lawyers and Legal Fees (both ends of move) are not cheap.  Hotel accommodations are/may be involved.  Temporary storage may be involved.  Contracts for cleaners may be involved.  Building Inspector fees most likely are an additional cost.  Travel costs, even for a short distance are involved.  I am quite sure that the expense of $72K for this move, can easily be matched by dozens or more moves made by other members of the CAF on Release after twenty or more years of service.  The longer the member serves the more they accumulate in property and the larger their family may become.  It is only common sense that their last moves may be expensive.  Perhaps the author of this article is on a "witch hunt" looking for some sensationalism to promote their own agenda......or they just have no common sense.

I think anyone who follows my ramblings here on Army.ca will acknowledge that I'm no great fan of journalism, per se, nor for that matter of many journalists. (There are a couple of exceptions.)

But, in all fairness, journalism is a highly competitive business and journalists are under constant pressure to find "news" and LGen (ret'd) Leslie, by making himself a public, political personality is "newsworthy" when his private affairs appear to be "out of line" with the experiences of many Canadians.

Mr Staples' comments simply affirm that he is trying to exploit LGen (ret'd) Leslie's wholly legitimate financial entitlements for his (Staples') own anti-military agenda. But, rest assured, the Conservative election campaign War Room will recycle this as part of a campaign to paint M. Trudeau and his advisors as self-indulgent "children of privilege" who bill charities for speaking fees and the taxpayers for local moves. It will be shabby and dishonest but we all know, by now, that negative advertising works in politics.

Finally, there has been for a generation now, a new model for journalism:

and

Edit: format

 

[Transporter]

I think this is considerably more about sending a nice little "welcome to politics" message to the future Liberal candidate in Ottawa-Orleans. If he thought he was going to run on the strength of his leaked cost-cutting report, he's going to be doing so on a back foot now.

Agreed. Why else would anyone be looking into his expense claims?

 

[Alberta Bound]

The CFIRP Directive only distinguishes certain benefits for retirement as not being allowed on a move under 40 kms to my understanding. I believe that is that only the HHT/DIT and HEA are not authorized. Besides that what Gen Leslie did was within policy. Although CRA have in the past ruled that retirement moves under 40 kms are a taxable benefit. So he may end up having to pay the taxman something.

The only thing I see Gen Leslie doing wrong was quoting the RCMP as getting the same benefit. A small misconception. A number of years ago the RCMP IRP Directive was changed to disallow benefits for retirement moves under 40 kms and/or if a member had never transferred from their engagement location. This was due to a news story about a large number of our civilian members (not PSs) and even a couple regular members getting retirement moves in and around their engagement location (Ottawa-Gatineau especially) without ever having had to take a transfer to a new posting during their service.

 

[Old Sweat]

It also seems to me that Gen Leslie joined the army in Ottawa. He was a Arty RESO Phase 1 student in Gagetown in 1977 when I was CIG at the school. I believe he was attending U of O and was affiliated with the 30th Fd.

Edit to add: This is confirmed by his on line biography from the RCA Museum:

http://www.rcamuseum.com/English/Great%20Gunners/lesliea.htm

 

[DAA]

Yes, he did start his CF career as a Reservist.

He did nothing more than any other retiring CF member does when claiming the benefits of an IPR, which are very unique to the CF and a few other OGD's (ie; RCMP).  Of note, the CF does NOT administer the benefits associated with Relocation.  This is done through contract with the current service provider, Brookefield Relocation Services.  The CF merely develops the policy and Brookefield is responsible to implement/administer it in conjunction with the individual's relocation needs.

A move to an IPR location which is under 40km, does include the"limitation of benefits" of some benefits but not that many.

So while $72K may seem like an extraordinarily large sum, the payment of those funds would have been made by Brookefield Relocation Services based on existant policy and not by someone in the CF.

 

[pbi]

.. But, rest assured, the Conservative election campaign War Room will recycle this as part of a campaign to paint M. Trudeau and his advisors as self-indulgent "children of privilege" who bill charities for speaking fees and the taxpayers for local moves. It will be shabby and dishonest but we all know, by now, that negative advertising works in politics.

And herein, IMHO, lies a certain danger of "collateral damage" if the issue of CAF compensation and benefits becomes a political football. Whether or not Leslie is an aspiring Liberal politician isn't really the point. The point is that his benefits legitimately accrued to him as a result of fulfilling a contract he signed with the Crown (and, by extension, the Govt of Canada). The Tories singling these out to attack the Liberals might have unintended consequences for the CAF: most Canadians could only dream of such benefits.

Hopefully the result will not be further penny-pinching driven by "optics".

 

[DAA]

And herein, IMHO, lies a certain danger of "collateral damage" if the issue of CAF compensation and benefits becomes a political football. Whether or not Leslie is an aspiring Liberal politician isn't really the point. The point is that his benefits legitimately accrued to him as a result of fulfilling a contract he signed with the Crown (and, by extension, the Govt of Canada). The Tories singling these out to attack the Liberals might have unintended consequences for the CAF: most Canadians could only dream of such benefits.

Hopefully the result will not be further penny-pinching driven by "optics".

I believe that the "optics" are already there and the issue was under the micro-scope last year.  Rumblings were that the policy was going to be changed last Aug or Sep but now that we are 6 months beyond that date, something happened to squash things and leave it be.

Like mentioned previously, now that this benefit has become a potential "lightening rod", all we can do is wait and see if it get's struck.

 

[PuckChaser]

So while $72K may seem like an extraordinarily large sum, the payment of those funds would have been made by Brookefield Relocation Services based on existant policy and not by someone in the CF.

I'm curious as to how much of that cost is to pay the moving company. That's got to be a significant portion of it, especially if he's got a large amount of items in a large home. Full day pack, full day load, full day unload, etc.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

So while $72K may seem like an extraordinarily large sum, the payment of those funds would have been made by Brookefield Relocation Services based on existant policy and not by someone in the CF.

And payouts/benefits based on approved TB policy.

Must be a slow news day.  "Retired General moves IAW Treasury Board Policy, along with XXXX other Reg Force members who retired in that fiscal year."

:Tin-Foil-Hat:

 

[Monsoon]

Must be a slow news day.  "Retired General moves IAW Treasury Board Policy, along with XXXX other Reg Force members who retired in that fiscal year."

How many of those members loudly championed defence administration cost savings in a report they compiled and then leaked prior to retiring to go into politics? Somewhat fewer.

I agree that what he did was entirely legal and that he was indeed "entitled to his entitlements". The question of whether or not it was wise given his desire to go into politics as a defence overhead-cutter is another question. If he had retired to private rather than public life there's no question we wouldn't be hearing about this now.

 

[MilEME09]

How many of those members loudly championed defence administration cost savings in a report they compiled and then leaked prior to retiring to go into politics? Somewhat fewer.

I agree that what he did was entirely legal and that he was indeed "entitled to his entitlements". The question of whether or not it was wise given his desire to go into politics as a defence overhead-cutter is another question. If he had retired to private rather than public life there's no question we wouldn't be hearing about this now.

I cant help but immediately think of the CPC smeer campaign beginning with this, CTV is now reporting the defense minister has ordered an investigation into his claim because he was apparently moving "just down the street" he is a liberal so of course the CPC will want to take him down. I personally want to see Leslie get elected, not in a sitting liberal government, but i think he would be good at keeping DND on its toes.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I cant help but immediately think of the CPC smeer campaign beginning with this, CTV is now reporting the defense minister has ordered an investigation into his claim because he was apparently moving "just down the street" he is a liberal so of course the CPC will want to take him down.

I guess they are then also investigating every person in the BRS organization that had anything to do with that file #.  Someone approved the payments, just like any other move.

 

[DAA]

I guess they are then also investigating every person in the BRS organization that had anything to do with that file #.  Someone approved the payments, just like any other move.

That's the key!  At the end of the day, the move is "contracted out", so the CF has little if any say on what is or what isn't paid to the member, so long as it falls within the policy guidelines which are sanctioned by Treasury Board.

Very few will know the exact details and I am slightly concerned with the fact that CTV has this kind of "personal" information, especially when the matter is administered by an outside/contracted service provided.

Makes me wonder how secure the information in my own personal previous relocation file is?

 

[The Bread Guy]

And payouts/benefits based on approved TB policy.

Must be a slow news day.  "Retired General moves IAW Treasury Board Policy, along with XXXX other Reg Force members who retired in that fiscal year."

:Tin-Foil-Hat:

.... At the end of the day, the move is "contracted out", so the CF has little if any say on what is or what isn't paid to the member, so long as it falls within the policy guidelines which are sanctioned by Treasury Board.

Very few will know the exact details and I am slightly concerned with the fact that CTV has this kind of "personal" information, especially when the matter is administered by an outside/contracted service provided.

Makes me wonder how secure the information in my own personal previous relocation file is?

Someone should tell the Minister - this, from CTV .....

Canada’s minister of national defence says his department intends to examine the “grossly excessive” expenses claimed by a former top-ranking general for a move from his Ottawa home to another residence in the city, shortly after he retired from the Armed Forces.

Documents obtained by CTV News on Saturday revealed that retired general Andrew Leslie, who once led Canada’s mission in Afghanistan, claimed more than $72,000 in moving expenses, including real estate fees, for a move in 2012.

“As such, I will be asking the Department of National Defence to examine how an in-city move could possibly total over $72,000,” Minister of National Defence Rob Nicholson told CTV News in an email on Sunday.

“In the meantime, it is important for Andrew Leslie to explain why he believes this is a reasonable expense for hard working Canadians to absorb. This is a matter of judgment and the responsible use of taxpayers dollars."

Leslie retired from the military in 2011, but members of the Canadian Forces are entitled to expense one last move after they retire.

In a statement to CTV News on Saturday, Leslie was adamant that he did not break any rules.

“The Department of National Defence handles and pays all the costs for packing, shipping… The overwhelming majority of the expense is certainly the real estate fees,” the statement said ....