Remembrance Day

[myself.only]

Personally, attending the dinner, standing on parade and attending the service with my Regimental Family, the events of Remembrance Day were honouring not only the Fallen but those who also served alongside them and returned.
It did not devolve into thanking everyone who wears a uniform.
Although various people thanked all who were on parade, I think the distinction between that polite thanks and honouring remained quite clear throughout.

As a CIC officer, I will confess to never having stressed to my cadets any distinction between the Fallen and those who made it back.  I have stressed that each of the names of the Fallen on the Honour Roll from WW2 were real people not much older than the cadets in many cases, and that they risked and gave up their future, a future that they looked forward to back then just as much as the cadets do now.  But I do also stress that this is the meaning - and very real cost - of unlimited liability, accepted by those who serve in operational theatres and then I mention some members of the Regiment that have been on tour.

Have I failed to drive home the proper meaning of Remembrance Day?
I guess I have. But somehow when it comes down to the day, I cannot draw the line and place the veteran on the outside because his loader who couldn't reach the trapped driver, got to him. I'm sure that surviving veteran makes that distinction every day, but I cannot draw that line on that day.

Just my  :2c:

 

[Towards_the_gap]

I have to disagree.

In the minds of many Canadians, writing "C U @ bar" is considered a sentence. Should we resist?  Well, it does convey the purpose of passing a message, so what's the problem.  But then you get a memo from a subordinate, usually time-sensitive with an expectation that it will be forwarded quickly, that looks like it was written by a chimpanzee, because we've accepted the lowest-common denominator.

Can we not maintain one day without losing focus and dumbing it down for the masses?  Particularly this day, because once you shrug and say "OK, it's not to remember sacrifices in war, but to commemorate anyone who's worn a uniform," it quickly becomes politicized (as we've seen with the white poppy crowd), or its value diminished (in previous years, I've seen reference to including fallen emergency services' personnel).If "the masses" misunderstand the meaning of Remembrance Day, then perhaps an education push is needed -- yes, even if that hurts the feelings of some kid from Newfoundland posting on a military-themed website.  I'm sure he'll remember the meaning of 11 November from this day forward.


Having lost several friends on military operations, Remembrance Day has become more personal to me over the past few years than it used to be.  Maybe I just "get it" now.  And while I certainly have no anger issues    when a friend of several years thanked me for my service the other day, I just wanted to yell at her, "IT'S NOT ABOUT US!!!"  It was that irritating.


So no, I don't think we should dumb it down to patting ourselves on the back for wearing or having worn a uniform.  It's not about us.

Well said sir, well said. Reference the bit in red - I was particularly incensed to watch, as the personal wreaths were laid at the end of the local ceremony in our town, a wreath laid for a Mr. XXXX and his grandson Xxxxxx.......... I responded to the fatal MVC that killed this grandson (mid 20's, not a day in the military) because he wasn't wearing a seatbelt. Yet lo and behold here was his family laying a wreath in his honour. And I don't blame them, I blame whatever legion knucklehead allowed them to do so.

 

[Lightguns]

Well said sir, well said. Reference the bit in red - I was particularly incensed to watch, as the personal wreaths were laid at the end of the local ceremony in our town, a wreath laid for a Mr. XXXX and his grandson Xxxxxx.......... I responded to the fatal MVC that killed this grandson (mid 20's, not a day in the military) because he wasn't wearing a seatbelt. Yet lo and behold here was his family laying a wreath in his honour. And I don't blame them, I blame whatever legion knucklehead allowed them to do so.

Ack that, the service I attended laid wreaths to honour 4 "fallen comrades"; specifically Legionaries who did not serve a day but were popular bar flies at said legion and died of natural or home front accidental causes (at least according to the girlfriend who is from that little village).  I fear we will see a day when the vets will be honoured in the minority and the families of legion bar flies will being honouring their loved in the majority.

 

[Danjanou]

Ah yes the let's spend 6 extra hours laying 30 or more extra wreathes crap for everyone and their dog compliments of the brain dead blue haired and blazer set at the RCL. Who cares if the elderly (Vets ) and youngsters ( cadets etc) are standing in the cold I mean it's all about "me" carrying a wreath up and of course giving a speach/sermon as well. :

The 2 years I spent as a Parade Commander for the East York Service the Protocol Officer and I tried to cut down on some of the superfluous wreathes. I think we managed to get rid of two, leaving twice as many as are laid in Ottawa, and that little exercise did not go over quietly.

Edit:

I just googled this years's list apparently they managed to get it down to under 40 and I'm still trying to figure out what some of them are for?
1  Victoria Cross 
2  Mothers of the Silver Cross  *** Should this be Memorial Cross???
3  Government of Canada
4  Province of Ontario
5 Mayor & Toronto City Council
6  4th Canadian Division (formerly Canadian Land Force, Central Area)
7 Veterans Affairs Canada
8 Royal Canadian Navy
9  Merchant Navy
10 Burma Star
11 Korea Veterans
12 Hong Kong Veterans
13  East York Hydro Veterans
14 Canadian Association of Veterans in the United Nations Peacekeeping   
15  Queens York Rangers – 1st Americans
16 Home Front Heroines
17 Airborne 2nd Forward Observation Unit Royal Artillery
18 District D Council
19 Zone D3 Council, Royal Canadian Legion
20 RCL Branch 10 & Ladies Auxiliary
21 RCL Branch 11 & Ladies Auxiliary
22 RCL Branch 22 & Ladies Auxiliary
23 RCL Branch 345
24 337 Royal Canadian Army Cadets
25 330 Air Cadets 
26 631 Sentinel
27  Toronto Fire Services
28 Toronto Professional Fire Fighters Association
29 Association of Retired East York Fire Fighters
30 Toronto Police Service
31 Toronto EMS
32 Toronto District School Board
33 Toronto Catholic District School Board 
34 Toronto Transit Commission
35 Toronto Hydro
36 St. John Ambulance

( I'm sure there were more after this)

 

[George Wallace]

Well, why don't you guys with the long line of "Wreath Layers" do what is done at Beechwood Cemetery.  There they have about twelve "official" wreaths laid up during the ceremony, and announce that anyone else wanting to lay a wreath may do so after the ceremony finishes.  Than is incentive for many less "Wreath Layers", leaving only the most dedicated to bring in a wreath or two.  After all, if it isn't being laid while everyone stands and shivers, what is the point, so their numbers dwindle.  At Beechwood, there may have been a couple of private wreaths laid afterward, and then the RCD Sqn lined up and placed their poppies upon the monument or wreaths as they paid their respects.

 

[George Wallace]

There is plenty of room after the main service to pay ones respects.

 

[observor 69]

After many years of participating in military Remembrance day ceremonies I have been attending my local community service.
I have been informed by my wife that she is tired of hearing me complain about the shortcomings of the  ceremony organized and conducted by our local Legion.
This year was no exception. Master of ceremony totally mixed up on the order of events, the "three" bands confused on when to play what piece of music and also a large pain watching an endless run of everybody and his dog walking up and laying a wreath. Oh and let's not forget civilians attempting a salute after laying a wreath, lost souls.
The sight of the parade sergeant major sans any military medals but lots of Legion ones on his right breast as he casually watched the parade depart from any order convinced  me that this is the normal for a civilian run parade and I  should learn to accept it.   
Way to long a ceremony, the public losing interest and wandering off before the end and to me the most irritating the disorganization of a ceremony that should follow a tight traditional format.

 

[JorgSlice]

After many years of participating in military Remembrance day ceremonies I have been attending my local community service.
I have been informed by my wife that she is tired of hearing me complain about the shortcomings of the  ceremony organized and conducted by our local Legion.
This year was no exception. Master of ceremony totally mixed up on the order of events, the "three" bands confused on when to play what piece of music and also a large pain watching an endless run of everybody and his dog walking up and laying a wreath. Oh and let's not forget civilians attempting a salute after laying a wreath, lost souls.
The sight of the parade sergeant major sans any military medals but lots of Legion ones on his right breast as he casually watched the parade depart from any order convinced  me that this is the normal for a civilian run parade and I  should learn to accept it.   
Way to long a ceremony, the public losing interest and wandering off before the end and to me the most irritating the disorganization of a ceremony that should follow a tight traditional format.

I decided to attend my home town services with a friend of mine from 3VP who.is also from the same town. Our Parade Sgt-Maj was an Air Cadet MWO (disastrous), the Padre gave "the good word" to the vets lf WW1/2 but then went on to contradict herself and basically slander the vets of present day (Bosnia, Afghanistan). and once in the legion all the tables filled up, no room for any of us current troops or the 5 RCMP officers to sit. Nobody offered us a seat, nothing. One of us even went and addressed this matter to the Branch President... Nothing.

 

[Kat Stevens]

The ceremony at Petawawa Legion had a zillion wreaths laid.  By the time it got down to the Ladies Auxiliary of the Hell's Angels, I'd had enough and headed inside for a beverage.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I decided to attend my home town services with a friend of mine from 3VP who.is also from the same town. Our Parade Sgt-Maj was an Air Cadet MWO (disastrous), the Padre gave "the good word" to the vets lf WW1/2 but then went on to contradict herself and basically slander the vets of present day (Bosnia, Afghanistan). and once in the legion all the tables filled up, no room for any of us current troops or the 5 RCMP officers to sit. Nobody offered us a seat, nothing. One of us even went and addressed this matter to the Branch President... Nothing.

I still remember a bunch of us, as new Bosnia vets, being turned away at a local Legion, on Remembrance Day, because they were about to hold a dinner.

At which no veterans were present. :facepalm:

 

[JorgSlice]

I still remember a bunch of us, as new Bosnia vets, being turned away at a local Legion, on Remembrance Day, because they were about to hold a dinner.

At which no veterans were present. :facepalm:

Pretty much the same for us. There was one Korea vet, the rest were... I guess you could say "legacy"/grandfathered members who hadn't served a day in their life. The biggest piss off was the table of 300lb ham-beasts stuffing their faces full of onion rings yet here's a group of 10 soldiers and RCMP that are STANDING while they eat/drink

I received one hand shake the whole time. That handshake came from an RCMP officer that served as a Police Mentor in the Stan.

 

[myself.only]

I decided to attend my home town services with a friend of mine from 3VP who.is also from the same town. Our Parade Sgt-Maj was an Air Cadet MWO (disastrous), the Padre gave "the good word" to the vets lf WW1/2 but then went on to contradict herself and basically slander the vets of present day (Bosnia, Afghanistan). and once in the legion all the tables filled up, no room for any of us current troops or the 5 RCMP officers to sit. Nobody offered us a seat, nothing. One of us even went and addressed this matter to the Branch President... Nothing.

PT, man FWIW I'm sorry to hear the present day vets get such short shrift.  :facepalm:

And I have to ask....

Our Parade Sgt-Maj was an Air Cadet MWO (disastrous).....

Were there only Cadets on parade?  Nobody else?

 

[JorgSlice]

PT, man FWIW I'm sorry to hear the present day vets get such short shrift.  :facepalm:

And I have to ask....

Were there only Cadets on parade?  Nobody else?

There was a bunch of British troops from BATUS (many of their families reside in our town), and a some Reservists from PRes, various units, current serving and had tours in Bosnia and/or A'Stan

 

[jollyjacktar]

I still remember a bunch of us, as new Bosnia vets, being turned away at a local Legion, on Remembrance Day, because they were about to hold a dinner.

At which no veterans were present. :facepalm:

My dad was bitter about the treatment he received at the # 1 Branch in Calgary when he returned from overseas in 45.  He was refused entry etc.

 

[Lightguns]

Despite my earlier complaint of fallen comrades, we were very well treated by the Norton, NB Legion.  They even threw out the bar flies to make sure every troop had a seat, a meal and a free drink.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

This year's main event at Point Pleasant Park in Halifax wasn't too bad actually. I may have missed it the last couple years as I was in Ottawa but the list of wreath layers was pared down considerably to about 10-12. As someone else said, an announcement was then made for "...any other organizations". The days of a wreath laid by "Joe's Discount Dog Food Stores" appear gone...for now. I went with my brother (months away from dying of cancer) in Burlington ON in 2011 and we had to leave after wreath # 36 (yes, I counted).
As for the after-ceremony functions, I never made it so I cannot comment on that.

 

[GR66]

I asked my kids what they did at their schools and the experiences were quite different.  My younger son in Elementary school had a fairly long assembly with two WWII vets present to speak to the kids and multi-media presentations, etc.  My son said it was excellent and very interesting. 

My older son in High School had a very different experience...."lame" in his words.  They apparently played the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan with dramatic music overlaid and a couple of comments/quotes.  No participation at all by the Legion, veterans or serving members.  Sad because the town has been pretty active in honouring one of our Afghanistan fallen (Sapper Brian Collier) who actually attended the school (and who has a scholarship in his name there as well). 

 

[Pat in Halifax]

That's odd. I did two school ceremonies here; one with a Legion Colour Party and another on my own (with a student Colour Party comprising Cadets at the school). I found out too there were many other schools who would have liked to have a vet and/or current serving person as part of their ceremonies.  All I can say is make sure that the Principals at the schools where your kids are, are aware that there is a program where they can get people in to participate. The two schools I participated in, literally walking distance apart; one Gr 1-6, the other P-9 each did a completely different service but both were commendable. I may even take all of Remembrance Week off next year and do a whole whack of these.
If people out there are interested in this and haven't heard of the Program, let me know and I will send out the link. Each area will have a PAO assigned to this starting around September.



Pat

 

[Tank Troll]

My son told me they did nothing at his school which doesn't surprise me as the also don't play the national anthem because they don't want to offend the foreign exchange students.

 

[Teager]

My son told me they did nothing at his school which doesn't surprise me as the also don't play the national anthem because they don't want to offend the foreign exchange students.

:facepalm: Wow I don't even know what to say to that.