Regimental Shoulder Badges

[Matt_Fisher]

Ok,

Here's another one of my silly "lets dress up the combat uniform" polls.

I personally like the old coloured regimental/branch shoulder badges (ie. red and white PPCLI badge, etc.) that were worn with the battledress uniform and briefly reintroduced with the ill-thought out garrison uniform

I was thinking that these coloured badges may look good on the cadpat combats for wear in garrison, similar to the velcro patches that the US Army is going to be using with their new 'Army Combat Uniform'.  

While not trying to mimic what the US Army is doing, the coloured regimental badges have a great deal of tradition and history behind them in that they were worn proudly during the Second World and Korean Wars, but sadly are disappearing into history.

The combats would come with a velcro patch sewn on the shoulder area and when in garrison the colored unit shoulder badge would be worn.   When in the field or on ops. the Canadian flag could be worn in lieu of the unit badge.

Anybody have any thoughts on this?

 

[Michael Dorosh]

The coloured patches would look godawful on CADPAT.  No need for them.  Our unit (probably others) still wear them on brassards, such as medics and regimental policemen.  There are others possible - orderly NCO, duty NCO (is there a difference?), etc.

Some units wore coloured flashes on the sleeves - for instance tartan patches; these might be better suited for your purposes than the embroidered "name" titles.

For example, the KOCR would have a square divided diagonally, light blue upper and dark blue lower, which are their regimental colours.  The Argylls would have their red and white dice (which is what the Allied regiment wears).  Etc. 

 

[McG]

Brigade patches would be an option.

 

[Michael OLeary]

At least brigade patches are a uniform shape and size, unlike the traditional coloured unit flashes that would require an oversized common velcro patch to make sure everyone's flash would fit any given shirt.

 

[McG]

It might also start building pride in the combined arms formation (and not just the homogeneous unit).

 

[X Royal]

Leave the combat uniform without coloured regimental markers. The main pupose of the combat uniform is combat so colour is not needed.

Pro Patria

 

[Michael Dorosh]

The main pupose of the combat uniform is combat so colour is not needed.

According to whom?  It's worn more often in garrison as a form of working clothing that it is in the field....

 

[Acorn]

A slight diversion; I think colour is needed in garrison, if for nothing else than to determine if one has to salute at a slightly greater distance than full frontal contact.

I do agree with the point that if we do go to some patches (coloured or subdued) on the CADPAT, the need to have a common shape for the velcro. Not sure how the US army is going to handle the different patch shapes in their new uniform.

Acorn

 

[Michael Dorosh]

A slight diversion; I think colour is needed in garrison, if for nothing else than to determine if one has to salute at a slightly greater distance than full frontal contact.

I do agree with the point that if we do go to some patches (coloured or subdued) on the CADPAT, the need to have a common shape for the velcro. Not sure how the US army is going to handle the different patch shapes in their new uniform.

Acorn

The US Army actually knows how to sew their own badges, perhaps?  One of the many lost arts, apparently, along with Brasso and Blanco....

 

[pbi]

The US Army actually knows how to sew their own badges, perhaps? One of the many lost arts, apparently, along with Brasso and Blanco....

No-the badges will be velcro not sew on.

I am in favour of unit and bde badges in garrison, but I suggest that instead of buggering about with new velcro patches, etc we just use the brassard which works fine (we wear them here in ISAF).

And Matt, what do you mean by:

(ie. red and shite PPCLI badge, etc.)

???

Cheers.

 

[Acorn]

Weren't brassards the rule in Korea as well? I agree, it is something that is workable.

Michael, the US still sews stuff on their BDUs, though I understand that will chance with the new uniform. We are not permitted to sew stuff on the CADPAT, as we did with the old combats.

pbi: I'm hoping Matt's comment was just due to the fact that "s" and "w" are adjacent on the keyboard. I wore the red & white PPCLI flashes for a few years. We wore them on the CFs and workdress. Later on the garrison dress after the brass titles were re-introduced with the DEU.

Acorn

 

[pbi]

pbi: I'm hoping Matt's comment was just due to the fact that "s" and "w" are adjacent on the keyboard. I wore the red & white PPCLI flashes for a few years. We wore them on the CFs and workdress. Later on the garrison dress after the brass titles were re-introduced with the DEU.

Yes-I was just having him on. WRT the "red and whites", IIRC, the PPCLI was the first unit in the Canadian Army to wear cloth titles, at a time that other units wore metal titles or CEF numbers. IMHO we Patricias should have stuck with the cloth shoulder titles on those grounds and not gone to the tin ones. Cheers.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

pbi: I'm hoping Matt's comment was just due to the fact that "s" and "w" are adjacent on the keyboard. I wore the red & white PPCLI flashes for a few years. We wore them on the CFs and workdress. Later on the garrison dress after the brass titles were re-introduced with the DEU.

Yes-I was just having him on. WRT the "red and whites", IIRC, the PPCLI was the first unit in the Canadian Army to wear cloth titles, at a time that other units wore metal titles or CEF numbers. IMHO we Patricias should have stuck with the cloth shoulder titles on those grounds and not gone to the tin ones. Cheers.

Red and white titles were worn exclusively by Guards units in the British Army.  Canadian Guards units followed suit, though how early I am not sure.  PPCLI probably were the first as you point out.  By 1939, they were one of only four different units permitted to wear cloth embroidered shoulder titles on either Service Dress of Battle Dress, the others being the GGFG, the CGG, and the Canadian Provost Corps (according to regulation, at any rate).  The PPCLI appear to have jealously guarded this privilege, and wore the red and white titles in England in December 1939.

During 1941, regulations relaxed and all units adopted the titles that Matt describes in the first post.

I agree that the PPCLI title in white on red has much more history behind it - one would think these things would continue to be jealously guarded, but then again, my own Regiment can't be bothered to get an oak leaf unit title approved for CADPAT wear.  A shame.  But then again, we no longer wear them on the shoulder.

Belly Button Flash sounds so un-martial, doesn't it.

 

[Matt_Fisher]

pbi: I'm hoping Matt's comment was just due to the fact that "s" and "w" are adjacent on the keyboard. I wore the red & white PPCLI flashes for a few years. We wore them on the CFs and workdress. Later on the garrison dress after the brass titles were re-introduced with the DEU.

Yes-I was just having him on. WRT the "red and whites", IIRC, the PPCLI was the first unit in the Canadian Army to wear cloth titles, at a time that other units wore metal titles or CEF numbers. IMHO we Patricias should have stuck with the cloth shoulder titles on those grounds and not gone to the tin ones. Cheers.

pbi,

My bad.   No offence meant to you or any other Patricias as this was a typo on my end.   I'm editing my original post to correct this.    

I've edited the poll to take include the brassard option.  I didn't think of it at first, but now that it's been been brought up, I think that this is a great option as you wouldn't have to fool around with velcro.

Michael, prety much all sewing of badges and name tapes, etc. is done professionally by the multitude of tailor/dry cleaning shops around most US bases.

X Royal, on the philosophy that you put forth, should the beret and cap badge not be worn with combats regardless of garrison or field duty and the cadpat bush hat be worn instead?

 

[rifleman]

The Cap badge and unit title on the slip-on is enough for CadPat. What more is needed? Save all the rest of it for DEUs

 

[GerryCan]

I agree with that, putting badges on cadpat would look ridiculous. Sure people use them for work dress more than in the field, but let's not forget that they are called 'combats' for a reason. Put all the crap you want on the DEU's to make them look good, but leave the combats to what they are really for. I have never had too much of a problem deciphering between unit's by simply looking at the slip-on.
Bring on all the fancy insignia and before you know it, we'll be spit-shining combat boots :blotto:

 

[pbi]

Bring on all the fancy insignia and before you know it, we'll be spit-shining combat boots

What is this I see? A Royal complaining about chickensh*t? Jimmy Cox is revolving in his consultant's chair!! Cheers. ;D

 

[X Royal]

Bring on all the fancy insignia and before you know it, we'll be spit-shining combat boots :blotto:

Thats exactly what happened in the late 70's early 80's. SSF patches, red and white Canada flags on combats & yes spit shone combat boots. Had to use a hot spoon to iron down the pebbles on the leather to get a good shine. After an exercise it was a real chore to get your boots back up to standard.
Do you really want to step back in time?
As for a Royal complaining about chickenshit why not we have seen our share.

 

[Pencil Tech]

I agree with either the velcro or brassard ideas. We hardly ever wear DEU anymore and I don't see why we can't smarten up a bit for garrison. While we're on the subject, I really like the way the Brits wear their combat shirts tucked in with stable belts.

 

[Guardian]

I agree with either the velcro or brassard ideas. We hardly ever wear DEU anymore and I don't see why we can't smarten up a bit for garrison. While we're on the subject, I really like the way the Brits wear their combat shirts tucked in with stable belts.

Although I agree with you, I don't see how that would work for us with the huge hip pockets. Mind you, with the tac and flak vests those pockets are superfluous anyway - maybe the next series of combat uniforms could drop them entirely and we could think of tucking in the shirts in garrison.... just a thought.