References Superthread [Merged]

[Pre-Recruit]

This question is for the 2009 year only.
This question is for the Regular Forces only.
This question is for a Non-Commissioned Member(NCM) application.
This question is for the Infantry trade only. (If relevant)


-Have used search.
-Have contacted recruiters.



If extenuating circumstances may warrant the over looking of this; brief background information follows:

-Am not lazy or unmotivated to find people.
-Family/friends are anti-war.
-Transferred to many schools and have been out for years.
-Transferred jobs often.
-Never been out of the country. (Except for two day trips into the USA in childhood.)
-Do not even own a passport.
-Never been on employment insurance or government debt.
-Do not have a criminal record or charged with anything.
-Been in the care of child services as a youth.
-Employed and up-to-date tax history.
-Own no debt, nor applied for loans.
-High school education.
-Canadian born citizen, Anglo-Saxon ancestry.
-24 years old, fit, male, b@stard child. (literal)

Actual useful information from recruit personal and pre-recruit/recruit or Members with similar circumstances will be highly valued and extremely appreciated. Thank you in advance.


Please consider all military abbreviations to be unknown.
Will be checking for replies/questions each day.

 

[Pusser]

As a high school graduate with no criminal record you should have no trouble at all signing up to be an NCM in the infantry.  Most of the things you have mentioned (including where or with whom you lived as a child or that your parents weren't married) are completely irrelevant.  Never been out of North America?  We can fix that for you!  Good luck.

 

[the_girlfirend]

We went through the process this year, and they said we absolutely needed all the references... we had to put family, friends and even neighbors, the only exception they said they made was for very young applicants who usually don't have 5-10 years old references. The only person who can help you is the recruiter, and I doubt they will turn you down for that... they will help you find a solution.

Good luck

 

[Michael OLeary]

This question is for the 2009 year only.
This question is for the Regular Forces only.
This question is for a Non-Commissioned Member(NCM) application.
This question is for the Infantry trade only. (If relevant)

Since it has been noted in other threads that there will be no more intake of Reg F infantry NCM in 2009 (until April 2010 apparently), you can use the next eight months to work on identifying and cultivating suitable references.

 

[Otis]

-Am not lazy or unmotivated to find people.
-Family/friends are anti-war.
-Transferred to many schools and have been out for years.
-Transferred jobs often.
-Never been out of the country. (Except for two day trips into the USA in childhood.)
-Do not even own a passport.
-Never been on employment insurance or government debt.
-Do not have a criminal record or charged with anything.
-Been in the care of child services as a youth.
-Employed and up-to-date tax history.
-Own no debt, nor applied for loans.
-High school education.
-Canadian born citizen, Anglo-Saxon ancestry.
-24 years old, fit, male, b@stard child. (literal)

Actual useful information from recruit personal and pre-recruit/recruit or Members with similar circumstances will be highly valued and extremely appreciated. Thank you in advance.


Please consider all military abbreviations to be unknown.
Will be checking for replies/questions each day.

You will not get in to the Forces without references. We need SOMEONE to act as a character reference for you. We can't do anything about your friends being anti-war, but if they won't act as character references for you, you're going to have to find SOMEONE who will. We recommend professionals (Doctor, Lawyer, Priest, Police officer, Teacher, Professor etc.) You cannot use family as references anyway.

You WILL also need to prove citizenship, Age and Education (a passport is not required as long as you have a Canadian Birth Certificate and some photo ID, but you will need transcripts from whatever school board(s) you went to.

Infantry is closed for this year. You will not get in in 2009 as Infantry. There IS a possibility (VERY REMOTE) of them opening up the trade for intake in early 2010, but more likely it will not open until after April 2010, and you will be in competition with everyone else who decided to wait it out until Infantry opens.

Pusser IS correct about one thing though ... we do not care about the circumstances of your birth with regard to your parents marital situation.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do!

Otis

 

[Pre-Recruit]

Original Poster

Would any current Forces recruiter care to weigh in? I would be most grateful.



To reiterate, I do not have any references; this is not for a lack of information of who is a possible candidate, but that there are simply none for me, nor is it a matter of waiting a year(s) for one. The question is straight forward and oblivious to these points and stands regardless: is there a way to proceed.

My stated information is mainly secondary, for the purpose of someone who does background checks(etc.) for applicants...
ie. if all these are accurate, would it (somehow) warrant bypassing the need for personal references.

 

[aesop081]

Original Poster

Would any current Forces recruiter care to weigh in? I would be most grateful.

"Otis", who posted just before you, is in fact a current CF recruiter. He has answered your question in plenty of detail.

would it (somehow) warrant bypassing the need for personal references.

The answer was "NO".

 

[kratz]

A Recuriter did provide the correct answer to your post.

Milnet.ca (and all sister sites) are privately owned and not affiliated with DND or the CF. No one should take any comments posted on a public site as official policy.

 

[BlueOne]

-Family/friends are anti-war.

Is it me or it sound like your friends or family just woulnt reference you because there may be a good reason?

I mean, will you hold back information on your application? This would lead to a fraudulent recruting.

My friends and family arnt war-friendly too and they gave me good references because they know that this is what I want and that I will serve at my best, as I always did in every other projects I had in my life.

 

[Vimy_gunner]

To make a long story, short.  I've only lived in one location for the five year requirement that is needed to write as a reference and that was because I moved back to the same place twice in a span of eleven years.  I'm from Canmore, busy tourist town where residents staying longer than a couple years is rare and I have just two friends that I've remained in contact with.  My employment has been with my dads company since 2003 and other than a couple instances of working in a hotel for a few months, I have no other employment references during this time.  My recruiter said I couldn't write down my employment history as a reference since it's family. 

So I'm stuck with two references (personal) and from good friends who are obviously going to paint a positive picture for me.  One of those friends is actually my brothers friend who I went mtn biking with from time to time, but didn't hang out a lot.  I've just known him a while.  The other friend I spent a lot of time mtn biking and snowboarding with, but just barely have known him for five years.  Three of which I was actually here in Lethbridge while he's back in Canmore.

I feel like I'm heading upstream without a paddle.    Any other friends I have are from College, which began in Sept. 2008.   

How important are these references?  Does anyone else have a similar story where their references for work and personal are inadequate for what the CF is asking for, but still were accepted.

Maybe a recruiter can shed some light on this and I intend on speaking to my local reserve recruiter, but hoping to prepare myself to knowledge as to what I should expect.

Thank-you

 

[helpup]

Fill in what you can, some of your refferances can be people who you may not think know you that well.  But as long as you ask them most dont mind being a refferance.  I have personally done it for a few soldiers who I have known or who worked for me.  The questions asked about them are pretty standard and anyone who has a cursurary knowledge of you will have no trouble answering them. 

In all the times I have been used as a referance I have been interviewed only a fraction of the time. 

 

[George Wallace]

References

Yet another topic that has been covered before.

It clearly states on the forms whom you can use as a Reference.  Do you have to have References that you know today and for the past three to five years?  No.  You can use any Reference who has know you for the fixed period of time, from any stage of your life.  It could be a minister who taught you Sunday School ten years ago.  It could be a Teacher who taught you through your Public School years.  As long as you have a Reference who has known you for the requested amount of time.

Yes.  References are important, and you must have them.

 

[Vimy_gunner]

Actually, on the application form in front of my eyes, it says "references must have known you for at least the previous five (continuous) years."  According to this, it can't be someone who knew me from say grade three to grade eight (unless I'm currently in grade nine) or a minister back in Sunday school.

Unless the above statement is a "clerical" mistake by the individual who put the print on the references form.  About the only person that has known me under this category would be my doctor. 

I'll talk to my local recruiter and see if I can actually delve back in time because I do have some good references then. 

Thanks for the replies  G.W. and helpup!

 

[helpup]

Actually, on the application form in front of my eyes, it says "references must have known you for at least the previous five (continuous) years."  According to this, it can't be someone who knew me from say grade three to grade eight (unless I'm currently in grade nine) or a minister back in Sunday school.

Unless the above statement is a "clerical" mistake by the individual who put the print on the references form.  About the only person that has known me under this category would be my doctor. 

I'll talk to my local recruiter and see if I can actually delve back in time because I do have some good references then. 

Thanks for the replies  G.W. and helpup!

It is not a clerical error and those forms do slowly change with the times.  I stand by my post.  Further I just went through another Security level clearance and now had to deal with trying to drag up my deceased father in laws address.  I didnt have it nor did my wife.  ergo I put in the comments box that fact and it got sent back to me as hey dummy fill it out.  I replied ( through the MP's ) that I dont have it, my wife does not have it and here is what we have for his burial plot........ That one did the trick and they ok'ed it.

George did you a favour and located your thread in it's proper forum.  Read through this one if you have any further questions ( before asking more )  Also he was suggesting that next time you use the Search button to help find answers before starting a "new " thread that will wind up getting moved or have people tell you to use the search button. 

 

[Vimy_gunner]

Should clear up that there are still Reserve BMQ's going on for the summer.  Unless my local recruiter is feeding me bs, which I doubt.  In his words, "We'll go through your application, test your CFAT and send you to Calgary for your medical and you will be finished the process in time for training in the Spring.  And hopefully, you'll be offered a job."

Unless of-course there is a Spring and Summer BMQ?, still are Reserve spots open, unless the Master Bombardier was giving me a sense of false hope, which I highly doubt!

Going to be taking my CFAT in a week and the PT test right after that.  Probably depends on the need for Reserve soldiers in different elements of the forces.  Field Gunner is at a shortage from my understanding. 

I think the level of worry has more to do with what your applying for, instead of just a mandatory determination across the board.  High demand to fill Artillery roles, less strict procedure.  Low demand for Infantry, more strict guidelines for accepting recruits.  Makes logical sense anyways.  I'm not an expert on the status of Artillery and Infantry; just what I heard.

 

[Apollo55]

I wasn't able to find anything about this when I searched, and for some reason I couldn't get a hold of anyone at the recruiting center today ???.

I'm just wondering about the 5 references for the DND background check. First, is it mandatory to have all 5 references, or would 4 be alright? It seems that a lot of people have trouble finding 5 people they have known for 5 continuous years.

And second, can you use any family members? Maybe people who have married into the family, such as aunts or uncles?

Thanks

 

[Brie21]

i am 99 % sure i read somewhere on one of the sheets that it cant be family members. if its says to have 5 references its probably a good idea to get 5. maybe try a family friend or a teacher or even a parent of a friend if you cant get that last reference

hope i helped a bit

 

[camelia]

i'm so interesting to work in your office but as you know i thing i'm not a canadian citizen i'm algerian is it possbile for me to work in the army reserves evan get job vacancie ? if it's not possible please inform me and if there is conditions ( how getting the canadian citizen ) and work in your office please give what are the steps that i must follow to get it thank you !

 

[FDO]

First: YES 5. The number is 5, thou shalt not stop at 4 nor carry on to 6. Have more ready in case they don't get an answer from one or more of them. You can't tell me that you are at least 16 years old and NO ONE outside your family has known you for 5 years.

Second: 3 basic requirments to belong to the CF, Canadian Citzen, at least 17 (16 for Reserve) and have at least a grade 10 (or other Provincial equivilant) You can apply for a civilian position if they have any but you must pass several tests and I'm pretty sure English and/or French is part of it.

 

[kolkol]

I have a question, and to start of, yes, I have called the recruiters, and the three different answers I received were all different.

It says on the application that you must list 5 references who you've known continuously for at least 5 years, further that they should be a mix of work, educational, and personal references. Now, being only 21, my work references are only known to me for 3 years. Will that cause problems? I've heard it will, one said it wouldn't, other said the 5 year thing is hooey. I wanna get this right so I don't delay my application, so thanks for you input.