RCMP Commissioner Lucki Stepping Down

[mariomike]

Not sure how much success they are having.
Seems to be a lot of emphasis on diversity.

rcmp diversity - Google Search

RCMP Core Values, if interested,

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-core-values-reconciliation-1.6481965

The RCMP is updating its statement of "core values" for the first time in a quarter century by adding references to "reconciliation," "diversity," "honour" and "empathy."

 

[Booter]

Not sure how much success they are having.
Seems to be a lot of emphasis on diversity.

rcmp diversity - Google Search

There are no malicious senior leaders in this stuff. There is no one consciously undermining operations or recruiting. That said- there are people in senior positions of influence that are attempting to support a government priority of diversity. All trying different things to try and crack the nut on how to make the right numbers apply.

The byproduct of these experiments is an unintentional consequence where operations and recruiting suffer. Because operations can’t have primacy where the government uses the organization as a poster for having the “desirable so and so’s”.

Operations want bodies. Politics wants the right headlines.

Actually there is one public servant who actually is quite open about undermining efficiency and operational requirements in the name of increasing the “right people”. They are obnoxious and insufferable, and incredibly influential presently,

 

[mariomike]

Times change.

I worked for a department had no women or minorities when I joined.

They eventually fixed that. But, it took time.

 

[Booter]

I believe a few things:

1) First Nations have to take the reins on police services in their communities. Strong support from the government and stewardship and mentoring from the RCMP while they transition. That this is worthwhile endeavour for the FNs and Inuit people. That part of their destiny and ownership over their communities involves being truly invested in their public safety agencies.

2) the end of contract policing from the RCMP is a few decades away but it’s coming.

3) diversity is important because the police service of a place should be a mirror of the people they serve. Communities or populations should be comfortable applying to the police of their jurisdiction. If they are comfortable being on the force- it implies some level of comfort with the organization. It’s not the only metric but it’s useful. The force should look like the community.

4) western law enforcement is on the cusp of creating a new emergency service that no one has named yet. Police work is going to break off some duties, emergency social services will break some off, the health care system will break some off, I don’t know what this looks like or what it’s name is- but it will be the connective tissue between many services. The high degree of specialization in all the public services has led to a wide field with too many expertise required. A restructuring of who owns what is coming.

 

[RedFive]

I believe a few things:

1) First Nations have to take the reins on police services in their communities. Strong support from the government and stewardship and mentoring from the RCMP while they transition. That this is worthwhile endeavour for the FNs and Inuit people. That part of their destiny and ownership over their communities involves being truly invested in their public safety agencies.

2) the end of contract policing from the RCMP is a few decades away but it’s coming.

3) diversity is important because the police service of a place should be a mirror of the people they serve. Communities or populations should be comfortable applying to the police of their jurisdiction. If they are comfortable being on the force- it implies some level of comfort with the organization. It’s not the only metric but it’s useful. The force should look like the community.

4) western law enforcement is on the cusp of creating a new emergency service that no one has named yet. Police work is going to break off some duties, emergency social services will break some off, the health care system will break some off, I don’t know what this looks like or what it’s name is- but it will be the connective tissue between many services. The high degree of specialization in all the public services has led to a wide field with too many expertise required. A restructuring of who owns what is coming.

‍♀

I hope wholeheartedly that what you have to say is true.

I strongly believe there is a balance to be struck between the benefits of the RCMP, national standardization etc of the Police forces and the local touch municipal forces bring to the table.

EDIT: Grammar

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I believe a few things:

1) First Nations have to take the reins on police services in their communities. Strong support from the government and stewardship and mentoring from the RCMP while they transition. That this is worthwhile endeavour for the FNs and Inuit people. That part of their destiny and ownership over their communities involves being truly invested in their public safety agencies.

2) the end of contract policing from the RCMP is a few decades away but it’s coming.

3) diversity is important because the police service of a place should be a mirror of the people they serve. Communities or populations should be comfortable applying to the police of their jurisdiction. If they are comfortable being on the force- it implies some level of comfort with the organization. It’s not the only metric but it’s useful. The force should look like the community.

4) western law enforcement is on the cusp of creating a new emergency service that no one has named yet. Police work is going to break off some duties, emergency social services will break some off, the health care system will break some off, I don’t know what this looks like or what it’s name is- but it will be the connective tissue between many services. The high degree of specialization in all the public services has led to a wide field with too many expertise required. A restructuring of who owns what is coming.

I like to see an Indigenous Federal police force. It will associated but still independent of the RCMP, so it gets access to the HR, pension and speciality investigators. They can come in and deal with the problem Reserves and the gangs, they be the face of Law Enforcement, with the full support of the RCMP and Provincial resources. It will take time to establish and grow, but get the core started now, they focus on one place for awhile, get their experience and and figure out their own SOP's.

 

[Booter]

I like to see an Indigenous Federal police force. It will associated but still independent of the RCMP, so it gets access to the HR, pension and speciality investigators. They can come in and deal with the problem Reserves and the gangs, they be the face of Law Enforcement, with the full support of the RCMP and Provincial resources. It will take time to establish and grow, but get the core started now, they focus on one place for awhile, get their experience and and figure out their own SOP's.

I wonder what a national program that dealt with the connections between FN organized crime groups would look like, that’s an interesting thought. I guess it falls under a few other shops right now- but it’s not active in the reserves like you’re describing. That’s an interesting idea

 

[OldSolduer]

I believe a few things:

1) First Nations have to take the reins on police services in their communities. Strong support from the government and stewardship and mentoring from the RCMP while they transition. That this is worthwhile endeavour for the FNs and Inuit people. That part of their destiny and ownership over their communities involves being truly invested in their public safety agencies.
.

I was saying yesterday that the First Nations have to be the ones that effect their own changes. We can help, but we cannot make them change.

 

[RedFive]

I suspect there would be even more significant difficulties in recruiting for and establishing such a force, given it would almost certainly have to start under the supervision and mentorship of the RCMP, which has it's own baggage as far as relations with Indigenous peoples.

 

[OldSolduer]

I suspect there would be even more significant difficulties in recruiting for and establishing such a force, given it would almost certainly have to start under the supervision and mentorship of the RCMP, which has it's own baggage as far as relations with Indigenous peoples.

When we have Indigenous people hired here they are referred to by inmates as "Apples" - Red on the outside, white on the inside.

It is an obstacle they will need to overcome.

 

[Booter]

First Nations need to produce First Nations police officers. They are trying in lots of places- those seeds like MFNPS and blood tribe are relatively successful. So are a few Ontario ones.

We need to be actively blowing on the embers of these programs and supporting it through fed money to help them lead their own agencies. Help them stand on their own.

It may shock folks- but most First Nations governments, when not in the media, are in my experience very thankful for the RCMP. I think a mentor relationship for standards and practices could work. Or we tap into the expertise from some of those other FN agencies

 

[RedFive]

When we have Indigenous people hired here they are referred to by inmates as "Apples" - Red on the outside, white on the inside.

It is an obstacle they will need to overcome.

And again we fall into the issue of not being able to impose a solution on them, but every attempt to help being looked at with a justifiably jaded point of view.

 

[Booter]

When we have Indigenous people hired here they are referred to by inmates as "Apples" - Red on the outside, white on the inside.

It is an obstacle they will need to overcome.

It is actually harder in some cases for them. In some places I’ve seen anyways. I’m sure thats not universal

 

[mariomike]

When we have Indigenous people hired here they are referred to by inmates as "Apples" - Red on the outside, white on the inside.

As offensive as the urban term, "Oreo cookie".

It may shock folks- but most First Nations governments, when not in the media, are in my experience very thankful for the RCMP.

My understanding is that most people who live and work in high crime areas are thankful for the police, and support them.

 

[FSTO]

When we have Indigenous people hired here they are referred to by inmates as "Apples" - Red on the outside, white on the inside.

It is an obstacle they will need to overcome.

Then there are the types like Pam Palmater who is of the belief that all police no matter the ethnicity is full of misogynists and racists. She hates everything about Canada but has no issues sucking on the teat that this colonial legacy provides her. Her types are the worst folks for moving the relationship between all creeds forward.

Dr. Pamela Palmater | Mi'kmaq lawyer, professor, activist and politician.

The official website of Dr. Pamela D Palmater. Mi'kmaq lawyer, professor, activist and politician from Mi'kma'ki, New Brunswick, Canada.

pampalmater.com

 

[Halifax Tar]

Then there are the types like Pam Palmater who is of the belief that all police no matter the ethnicity is full of misogynists and racists. She hates everything about Canada but has no issues sucking on the teat that this colonial legacy provides her. Her types are the worst folks for moving the relationship between all creeds forward.

Dr. Pamela Palmater | Mi'kmaq lawyer, professor, activist and politician.

The official website of Dr. Pamela D Palmater. Mi'kmaq lawyer, professor, activist and politician from Mi'kma'ki, New Brunswick, Canada.

pampalmater.com

I recently had a discussion with someone who whole heartedly thinks we should do away with all police forces. I ask them who is responsible for public safety and control of crimes and they replied that would an individual responsibility.

I don't think they have any idea what they are saying. But if they are cool with me open carrying 24/7 and using it, then I'm ok with it.

 

[lenaitch]

I like to see an Indigenous Federal police force. It will associated but still independent of the RCMP, so it gets access to the HR, pension and speciality investigators. They can come in and deal with the problem Reserves and the gangs, they be the face of Law Enforcement, with the full support of the RCMP and Provincial resources. It will take time to establish and grow, but get the core started now, they focus on one place for awhile, get their experience and and figure out their own SOP's.

I'm not sure how well that would work. Indigenous people are not a homogeneous block and their cultures, social structures and governance can vary widely across the country. Ontario alone has about a dozen stand-alone FN police services; some are responsible for a single territory, others cover multiple communities, and there are still some policed directly by the OPP. I don't see how a nation-wide service would be responsive.

I recently had a discussion with someone who whole heartedly thinks we should do away with all police forces. I ask them who is responsible for public safety and control of crimes and they replied that would an individual responsibility.

I don't think they have any idea what they are saying. But if they are cool with me open carrying 24/7 and using it, then I'm ok with it.

I'd enjoy hearing their solution to any number of hypothetical situations. I'll bet they feel they should come out on top every time. When it comes to interpersonal matters, "individual responsibility" has more than one perspective.

 

[lenaitch]

What ended up happening to him? If he was successfully through the entire process and simply waiting to be sent on training, eventually he would either be sent, or would be told best of luck, or would go elsewhere of his own accord? Straight white unilingual males from BC aren’t exactly rare in the RCMP, or municipal services within British Columbia.



Trying to make sure I understand this- you’re referring to recruit classes being delayed until enough non-white-make cadets had been enrolled to diversify an individual class?



I believe that equity considerations are a part of hiring and recruit loading, I’m just not buying the assertion made upthread that ‘white males need not apply’. Again, the demographics of recruits and serving police simply belies that.

I couldn't find an online picture of an entire OPP recruit class but here is a slice of one that recently went to its Central Region (Caledon Det., Dufferin County, Simcoe County and Muskoka District). Although I can't directly compare hiring practises to the RCMP, I can assure everyone that OPP recruiting touches all of the same bases in terms of diversity goals. 'Reflecting the community' can become difficult if it is interpreted too finely, and you turn some detachments into diversity ghettos.
In spite of best efforts, at the end of the day you are limited to what comes through the door and have to staff Perhaps RCMP recruiting, or at least those in charge of it, have different priorities.

OPP deploys 19 new officers to Central Region

One of the recent graduates is joining Orillia detachment

www.orilliamatters.com

 

[Booter]

I'm not sure how well that would work. Indigenous people are not a homogeneous block and their cultures, social structures and governance can vary widely across the country. Ontario alone has about a dozen stand-alone FN police services; some are responsible for a single territory, others cover multiple communities, and there are still some policed directly by the OPP. I don't see how a nation-wide service would be responsive.

I'd enjoy hearing their solution to any number of hypothetical situations. I'll bet they feel they should come out on top every time. When it comes to interpersonal matters, "individual responsibility" has more than one perspective.

The only federal system that could work is a governing structure for their own smaller services- like an auditor for standards and a linkage for service to service stuff. I feel like a provincial First Nations force is more possible,

There has already been issues with band to band and tribe to tribe services. Manitoba First Nations Police Service had to change its name from its original Name because of tribal identity issues when it was Dakota Ojibway Police Service. Or that was the explanation provided to me at the time of the change from the DOPS chief.

As for defunding police- what is interesting is that when the anarchist/defund police crowds set up shop they last about a week before they create their own “peacekeepers” that are cops by any other name- with no accountability mechanisms.

So their solution winds up with a regression in accountability that is usually rife with nepotism and favouritism and immediately creates factions. They are hilarious to watch especially the mental gymnastics to describe how it’s not a less accountable cop they’ve made

 

[Halifax Tar]

I'm not sure how well that would work. Indigenous people are not a homogeneous block and their cultures, social structures and governance can vary widely across the country. Ontario alone has about a dozen stand-alone FN police services; some are responsible for a single territory, others cover multiple communities, and there are still some policed directly by the OPP. I don't see how a nation-wide service would be responsive.

I'd enjoy hearing their solution to any number of hypothetical situations. I'll bet they feel they should come out on top every time. When it comes to interpersonal matters, "individual responsibility" has more than one perspective.

The only federal system that could work is a governing structure for their own smaller services- like an auditor for standards and a linkage for service to service stuff. I feel like a provincial First Nations force is more possible,

There has already been issues with band to band and tribe to tribe services. Manitoba First Nations Police Service had to change its name from its original Name because of tribal identity issues when it was Dakota Ojibway Police Service. Or that was the explanation provided to me at the time of the change from the DOPS chief.

As for defunding police- what is interesting is that when the anarchist/defund police crowds set up shop they last about a week before they create their own “peacekeepers” that are cops by any other name- with no accountability mechanisms.

So their solution winds up with a regression in accountability that is usually rife with nepotism and favouritism and immediately creates factions. They are hilarious to watch especially the mental gymnastics to describe how it’s not a less accountable cop they’ve made

For the record, I am in total agreement with you two.