Rations, Meal Halls ect... Merged

[chubakah]

Ref: Treasury Board of Canada (renamed National Joint Counsel)

I would be careful with this ref, it could be interpreted as civilian policy to assist there collective agreements.  Regardless, we all know that the Military Regulations, Orders and Policies (ok directories, as well) are currently in a flux.....IR need I say more.

The ref policy states, if a mbr is required to work during an unscheduled work time they are entitled to be reimbursed, at a reasonable amount, all expenses incurred.   

I feel the need to counter act this policy with the fact that we are paid on a salary, and expected to place duty before self....are we not always expected to respond 24/7? 

Your call. but CFAO's do not apply, the Aid Du Memoir is not policy, but put in place to guide us as a simple reference....and good luck with QR&O's, and CFAO's.....DAOD's...rare.

This one is fun!

 

[armyvern]

Ref: Treasury Board of Canada (renamed National Joint Counsel)

I would be careful with this ref, it could be interpreted as civilian policy to assist there collective agreements.  Regardless, we all know that the Military Regulations, Orders and Policies (ok directories, as well) are currently in a flux.....IR need I say more.

The ref policy states, if a mbr is required to work during an unscheduled work time they are entitled to be reimbursed, at a reasonable amount, all expenses incurred.   

I feel the need to counter act this policy with the fact that we are paid on a salary, and expected to place duty before self....are we not always expected to respond 24/7? 

Your call. but CFAO's do not apply, the Aid Du Memoir is not policy, but put in place to guide us as a simple reference....and good luck with QR&O's, and CFAO's.....DAOD's...rare.

This one is fun!

Yes, we would be expected to respond 24/7 ... and we'd also be expected to be covered for meals etc if that recall need to occur. You are ordered to work for the second time in a 24 hour period and you are covered - both mileage and meals if required. And, that is one policy that was/is still in effect as of last Wednesday night with a valid pol reference for re-imbursement on claim. Everything didn't stop with those CANFORGENs and if you think it did ... I hope to hell that you aren't working in an Orderly Room somewhere using "your call" on claims. It's not your call Miss Muffet, and never has been.

The NJC did not change it's rules with it's name change.

Oh Yeah -- as for your "this one is fun comment" --- you do realize that there is a whole Task Force of pers away from their homes right now undergoing work-up trg since November 2010 who have no access to common rooms with TV, tie-lines to call home to their spouses/families across Canada, access to transport to go downtown on weekends off etc ... who are and have been receiving sweet-fuck-all in the way of benefits because they are "attach posted" for the year instead of "TD'd" for the year? And you -- you think it's funny?? From me to you, on their behalves, kiss my ass.

It's not funny. It's unimaginable that pers "attached posted" away from their families for up to a year (with a further seperation to occur while actually deployed overseas) to do training to deploy overseas are entitled to sweet fuck all right now in the way of benefits to assist them with paying for cable or phone calls home once a week etc ...

while those on "TD" to courses in Borden etc for a mere 3 weeks are collecting 17.35 a day for the first 30 days, then 13 bucks a day after that. simply because they are TDd and not attach posted. A whole heck of a lot of them are also travelling home every weekend to see their familes too, and living in quarters with common rooms with TV and tie-line access ... what is wrong with this picture!!??

It's not "fun", it's a situation that needs to get clarified and sorted soonest. It is costing some of us a lot. There are people working hard at the highest levels to sort this all out, please don`t denigrate their efforts at actually helping troops with your .02 cents.

 

[Pusser]

Ref: Treasury Board of Canada (renamed National Joint Counsel)

I would be careful with this ref, it could be interpreted as civilian policy to assist there collective agreements.  Regardless, we all know that the Military Regulations, Orders and Policies (ok directories, as well) are currently in a flux.....IR need I say more.

The ref policy states, if a mbr is required to work during an unscheduled work time they are entitled to be reimbursed, at a reasonable amount, all expenses incurred.   

I feel the need to counter act this policy with the fact that we are paid on a salary, and expected to place duty before self....are we not always expected to respond 24/7? 

Your call. but CFAO's do not apply, the Aid Du Memoir is not policy, but put in place to guide us as a simple reference....and good luck with QR&O's, and CFAO's.....DAOD's...rare.

This one is fun!

First off, Treasury Board and the National Joint Council are two different things.  The NJC is a forum for the development and negotiation of benefits.  Treasury Board is one of many  members of the NJC, as is the CF.

Secondly, in what way do CFAOs not apply?  Although we are in the process of transforming some CFAOs into DAODs, the basic premises of the policies behind them remain the same.  The chief reason for moving to DAODs was that the Department wanted CFAOs to apply to DND civilians in some cases and legal opinion was reluctant to accept that civilian employees could be ordered to do anything.  Hence the wording in DAODs that CF members are "ordered" and civilian employees are "directed," but I digress.

To the best of my knowledge (unfortunately, I'm not on the DIN at the moment and can't confirm it), CFAO 36-14 (Entitlement to Rations at Public Expense) is still in effect.  This CFAO is convoluted and you have to read the entire thing to understand it, but it boils down to this on this issue.  If you are required to work longer than normal and that extended time goes past a "normal" meal hour, then you are entitled to rations at public expense.  This shall normally be provided from a CF dining facility if possible (if it's closed by the time you get back to the base, it's not possible).  If it's not possible, then you are entitled to reimbursement for actual and reasonable expenses for the meal.  "Actual' means you have to provide a receipt to prove you spent the money and "reasonable" means you are limited to the approved meal rate for the meal in question.

The policy of the CF is that if we put you in certain situations, you are entitled to meals at public expense.  CFAO 36-14 is the regulation that describes how we do it.

On a final note, ArmyVern is absolutely right.

 

[Evocatus]

Related funny story -  My boss in  NDHQ was working late [past 1800 hrs], so he used his issue BB to order a delivery pizza, which he subsequently did not claim, altho he could have...

Point:  a few weeks later he recieved notification from the local Comm Sqn telecom types, that his call to the pizza joint, on his issue BB, was flagged as inappropriate & contraveined thier policy and he was being assessed [billed] .27 cents for the 'unauthorized' call....

WTF ?  ???  ...if the pizza was a valid expense, then so was the call to order it !  Problem is, the Comm Sqn guys don't know that.

Needless to say, the 'notification' is framed on his wall   

 

[Quellefille]

Related funny story -  My boss in  NDHQ was working late [past 1800 hrs], so he used his issue BB to order a delivery pizza, which he subsequently did not claim, altho he could have...

Point:  a few weeks later he recieved notification from the local Comm Sqn telecom types, that his call to the pizza joint, on his issue BB, was flagged as inappropriate & contraveined thier policy and he was being assessed [billed] .27 cents for the 'unauthorized' call....

WTF ?  ???  ...if the pizza was a valid expense, then so was the call to order it !  Problem is, the Comm Sqn guys don't know that.

Needless to say, the 'notification' is framed on his wall   

my favourite retired Col. had a similar thing.  they got on her for all the calls she made from her home to her bb.  She kept forgetting the bb, calling her son, asking her son to find it and bring it out and she grabbed it from him.  he was a teenager, and just called it from the home phone rather than looking for it.  And it would go through and BAM charges.

She thought it was damn funny.  took her a few days to figure it out, but damned funny

 

[Millerrg]

Are the ration expenses paid during BMQ eligible as a deduction on income tax?

 

[George Wallace]

Are the ration expenses paid during BMQ eligible as a deduction on income tax?

Before you ask.....Rations and QUARTERS are not tax deductions. 

Why would you even have to ask that?  You do have to eat.  You have never had food of any sort at home considered a tax deduction, have you?

You aren't trying to steal oxygen now are you?

 

[Millerrg]

Is it possible to claim the room and board (ration expense) for the BMQ Course as an expense on your income tax?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

You've already been to 'no' once today - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/69716/post-1223718.html#msg1223718

Continuing to ask won't change that.

Don't ask again.

---Staff---

 

[Millerrg]

Does anyone know or have tried claiming room and board expenses for training courses (such as BMQ) as an expense deduction on income tax?

 

[Harris]

You have asked this same question 3 times.  NO is the answer.  Stop posting the same question.

---STAFF---

 

[orangutan]

Question:

A soldier is a vegetarian, his CoC is well aware of this. He is sent to the range for the day (0700 till 1700) to sentry ammo. He arrives to find out that no vegetarian meal has been provided for him. What reference can he use to make a complaint? I have had situations like this happen while on ex and found out after the fact that you can't just put in a meal claim and be paid for a missed meal. You have to go get a meal and bring in a receipt for reimbursement. In this situation he is not able to come in from the range to do so... (poor leadership in the CoC  : ). Having trouble locating a reference in QR&O's or DAOD's.

Thanks

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Now I'm not leaning one way or another here but, if I were a special diet, I would make it my responsibility EACH time to remind them about my meal requirements................when planning a large scenario one person's dietary habits wouldn't really be that hard to overlook. 

Like I tell inmates........"you had better remind me because it means a whole lot more to you than it does to me."

 

[Crispy Bacon]

Question:

A soldier is a vegetarian, his CoC is well aware of this. He is sent to the range for the day (0700 till 1700) to sentry ammo. He arrives to find out that no vegetarian meal has been provided for him. What reference can he use to make a complaint? I have had situations like this happen while on ex and found out after the fact that you can't just put in a meal claim and be paid for a missed meal. You have to go get a meal and bring in a receipt for reimbursement. In this situation he is not able to come in from the range to do so... (poor leadership in the CoC  : ). Having trouble locating a reference in QR&O's or DAOD's.

Thanks

QR&O 36.35:

36.35 – ENTITLEMENT TO RATIONS

(1) Except as prescribed in paragraph (2), the commanding officer of a base, unit or element is entitled to draw a daily ration to the approved scale for:

  (a) each officer or non-commissioned member on the strength of the base, unit or element who

  (i) is subject to deductions from pay and allowances as prescribed in paragraph (1) of article 208.505 (Deductions for Provision of Rations), or

  (ii) is not subject to deductions from pay and allowances under paragraph (2) of article 208.505;

  (b) each member of the Canadian Forces on temporary duty or attached duty at the base, unit or element for the period of that duty;

  (c) each patient in a hospital of the base, unit or element;

  (d) each cadet, to whom the Queens Regulations and Orders for the Canadian Cadet Organizations apply when attending a summer camp at the base, unit or element or on other occasions prescribed by the Minister;
   
  (e) each civilian employee of the Department on the strength of a base, unit or element whose terms of engagement provide entitlement to prepared rations without financial recovery;

  (f) each person authorized to be provided with prepared rations on financial recovery;

  (g) each person held in custody in the unit detention room for whom a daily ration is not otherwise drawn; (1 September 1999)

  (h) each person engaged in operations, required for duty during a continuous state of readiness or taking part in a training, field or operational exercise authorized by the officer commanding the command, during which it is not feasible or desirable to return to mess halls or to other normal places of messing; and

  (i) any other person designated by the Chief of the Defence Staff.

(2) No daily ration shall be drawn under paragraph (1) for any person who is absent from the base, unit or element for a period of 48 hours or more for any reason except detached duty when continuing to draw unit rations.

CBI 210.83

210.83 – MEAL EXPENSE – RESERVE FORCE ON
CLASS "A" OR "B" RESERVE SERVICE

210.83(1) (Meal expense) An officer or noncommissioned
member of the Reserve Force on Class
"A" or "B" Reserve Service who is entitled to rations
under QR&O 36.35 (Entitlement to Rations), over a
meal hour shall, if a meal cannot be provided from
Government sources, be paid either:

(a) a meal expense without receipt equivalent to
the national average cost of a dispersed lunch
meal produced by a Canadian Forces dining
facility for visiting units and personnel as
determined annually by the Chief of the Defence
Staff, or

(b) a meal expense supported by a receipt not to
exceed the meal allowance rate for a lunch
established by the Treasury Board for the public
service.

CFAO 36-14:

When a member who is on ration strength cannot be provided with
a meal from DND food services, he may claim for actual out-of-pocket
expenses for meals not exceeding the rates prescribed for individual meals
in Annex A to 209-13.

The DAOD 3012 series might also help.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

That's all fine and dandy but the cavet is that a meal was provided....

 

[OldSolduer]

That's all fine and dandy but the cavet is that a meal was provided....

First things first - this a case of poor leadership. If the soldier informed his CoC that he/she is a vegetarian then the CoC from the sect 2i/c and up should know about it and provide the meal. Who ever forgot to feed the solider needs a strip torn off him/her.

As for reimbursement, he/she should be reimbursed in some fashion.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

First things first - this a case of poor leadership. If the soldier informed his CoC that he/she is a vegetarian then the CoC from the sect 2i/c and up should know about it and provide the meal. Who ever forgot to feed the solider needs a strip torn off him/her.

I wouldn't go making that jump yet.........IF he reminded them then yes, but I put the responsibility on the person requesting a 'lifestyle" meal to make sure the COC is aware each time. 
I'm also curious if the OP could tell us what foods were sent out? 

 

[DAA]

Question:

A soldier is a vegetarian, his CoC is well aware of this. He is sent to the range for the day (0700 till 1700) to sentry ammo. He arrives to find out that no vegetarian meal has been provided for him. What reference can he use to make a complaint? I have had situations like this happen while on ex and found out after the fact that you can't just put in a meal claim and be paid for a missed meal. You have to go get a meal and bring in a receipt for reimbursement. In this situation he is not able to come in from the range to do so... (poor leadership in the CoC  : ). Having trouble locating a reference in QR&O's or DAOD's.

Thanks

Even if you brought in a receipt, you probably won't be reimbursed anyhow.  The CF merely attempts to "accommodate" your special dietary requirements but they are not "obligated" to go out of their way.  The only exception would be in cases, where a medical condition exists.

Being a vegetarian, is a personal choice.

 

[OldSolduer]

Being a vegetarian, is a personal choice.

Agree , but if the soldier has informed the CoC over and over again and they continue to "forget" .....see my point?

We accommodate people of faith with kosher food.....so why not a vegetarian.

 

[DAA]

Agree , but if the soldier has informed the CoC over and over again and they continue to "forget" .....see my point?

We accommodate people of faith with kosher food.....so why not a vegetarian.

Noted and understood.  When it comes to "special dietary" choices, the food services manual indicates that "CAF Food Svcs managers should consider diner pereferences, as well as the impact on cost, when determining if specific foods should be offered."  Mind you, I do believe that a "vegetarian" option is not  just available in the Mess Halls and IMP's but also for dispersed meals (ie; box lunchs) as well.

So, yup, maybe they just plain "forgot" or something else factored into the equation.