Rations, Meal Halls ect... Merged

[Nfld Sapper]

First things first - this a case of poor leadership. If the soldier informed his CoC that he/she is a vegetarian then the CoC from the sect 2i/c and up should know about it and provide the meal. Who ever forgot to feed the solider needs a strip torn off him/her.

As for reimbursement, he/she should be reimbursed in some fashion.

I agree Jim but as you know if it is provided then they will not consider it...

 

[orangutan]

Now I'm not leaning one way or another here but, if I were a special diet, I would make it my responsibility EACH time to remind them about my meal requirements................when planning a large scenario one person's dietary habits wouldn't really be that hard to overlook. 

Like I tell inmates........"you had better remind me because it means a whole lot more to you than it does to me."

His CoC definitely is aware of his dietary requirements. He mentioned it this morning before again before leaving for the range.

That's all fine and dandy but the cavet is that a meal was provided....

No meal was provided to him. 

I wouldn't go making that jump yet.........IF he reminded them then yes, but I put the responsibility on the person requesting a 'lifestyle" meal to make sure the COC is aware each time. 
I'm also curious if the OP could tell us what foods were sent out?

Being  a vegetarian is not a "lifestyle" convenience... because we live in a continent that capitalizes on people thinking they need meat in their diets... does not make it the "normal" diet.  Religious beliefs come to mind.  It is a right and freedom.  Goodness. Why bother even having veggie rats if this is the go to when a scenario like this arises. Stop recruiting vegetarians now?

Regarding foods sent out, regular rations were provided for everyone else. As an update to the situation, he returned from the range at 1400, still having not been fed, and was ordered to go to the MIR to retrieve a Protected B document his CoC had lost and needed him to retrieve. That took priority over his eating. When asked if he could eat he was told by his superior (WO) that he "doesn't care that he didn't eat yet, he needs that piece of paper."  He walked to the MIR, retrieved the piece of paper and because the WO had left for the day, at 1500 the MCpl gave him time to go eat.

Even if you brought in a receipt, you probably won't be reimbursed anyhow.  The CF merely attempts to "accommodate" your special dietary requirements but they are not "obligated" to go out of their way.  The only exception would be in cases, where a medical condition exists.

Being a vegetarian, is a personal choice.

I digress, what about religious beliefs.
It is disappointing when a lower rank's needs are viewed as choices, and a higher rank's needs are viewed as requirements. From day one the first thing a corporal, or even a senior private is taught is to feed his guys and take care of them. People fail simple 2.0 courses because of neglect.  This instance today was not a difficult one to deal with, IMO.  Our troop stores has vegetarian rats there. Would have been very easy to have someone run one out.

I will add, this soldier did not stroll in one day and decide to be a vegetarian on the fly. He has plenty of time in and tours.
Thank you for the references, Crispy Bacon. This has been very helpful.

 

[DAA]

His CoC definitely is aware of his dietary requirements. He mentioned it this morning before again before leaving for the range.

No meal was provided to him. 

Being  a vegetarian is not a "lifestyle" convenience... because we live in a continent that capitalizes on people thinking they need meat in their diets... does not make it the "normal" diet.  Religious beliefs come to mind.  It is a right and freedom.  Goodness. Why bother even having veggie rats if this is the go to when a scenario like this arises. Stop recruiting vegetarians now?

Regarding foods sent out, regular rations were provided for everyone else. As an update to the situation, he returned from the range at 1400, still having not been fed, and was ordered to go to the MIR to retrieve a Protected B document his CoC had lost and needed him to retrieve. That took priority over his eating. When asked if he could eat he was told by his superior (WO) that he "doesn't care that he didn't eat yet, he needs that piece of paper."  He walked to the MIR, retrieved the piece of paper and because the WO had left for the day, at 1500 the MCpl gave him time to go eat.


I digress, what about religious beliefs.
It is disappointing when a lower rank's needs are viewed as choices, and a higher rank's needs are viewed as requirements. From day one the first thing a corporal, or even a senior private is taught is to feed his guys and take care of them. People fail simple 2.0 courses because of neglect.  This instance today was not a difficult one to deal with, IMO.  Our troop stores has vegetarian rats there. Would have been very easy to have someone run one out.

I will add, this soldier did not stroll in one day and decide to be a vegetarian on the fly. He has plenty of time in and tours.
Thank you for the references, Crispy Bacon. This has been very helpful.

Religious beliefs and personal dietary choices are two difference things.

The local Food Svc Provider did their job, albeit maybe not very well.  So the problem obviously lies between whom ever is submitting the ration requests for the unit and the Kitchen that is filling those requests.  If the request submitted by the Unit specified a "vegetarian" feeding option and that request wasn't fulfilled, then you know where to look but if the Unit didn't specify in their request.........This is by no means a "rank" thing on the part of the member disadvantaged.

It's no different than me saying "I don't like to eat X" and then they serve X.  Like my mother used to tell me and that was well before joining the CF, eat what's put in front of you or go hungry.

And good luck getting "kosher" food served in a CF mess, let alone in the field!

 

[PMedMoe]

As an update to the situation, he returned from the range at 1400, still having not been fed, and was ordered to go to the MIR to retrieve a Protected B document his CoC had lost and needed him to retrieve. That took priority over his eating. When asked if he could eat he was told by his superior (WO) that he "doesn't care that he didn't eat yet, he needs that piece of paper."  He walked to the MIR, retrieved the piece of paper and because the WO had left for the day, at 1500 the MCpl gave him time to go eat.

The WO sounds like he's just dicking someone around.  What an ass.

Back to the food.  I noticed you mentioned vegetarian rats in troop stores.  If it was IMPs out on the ranges, surely he could have found something (maybe not the main meal) to eat from one of them?

 

[orangutan]

DAA: no soldier with vegetarian rations sitting in their stores cage or made available by the CF should "go hungry".  Apples and oranges. A warrant officer is no soldier's mother, nor is he expected to be by my peers.  Have a little empathy for those with dietary restrictions. Proper meals ought to be provided when given AMPLE notice (in this case, years) when they ARE easily available whether it's a food allergy, a religious belief or what have you.
I am not arguing eating or going hungry. I am arguing the situation at hand. Devil's advocate for could have, would have, should have situations are not what I'm looking for here. I'm looking for help for him to get compensation in some way.

The WO sounds like he's just dicking someone around.  What an ***.

Back to the food.  I noticed you mentioned vegetarian rats in troop stores.  If it was IMPs out on the ranges, surely he could have found something (maybe not the main meal) to eat from one of them?

Yes IMP's. Indeed one could snack on maybe bread or what have you, but really that's no meal, eh? Imagine if you were given a piece of IMP bread and a pouch of fruit as lunch. That's no lunch. It's the principal of it.

 

[armyvern]

...

So, yup, maybe they just plain "forgot" or something else factored into the equation.

I have many vegans, kosher etc dietary considerations within my current Unit that we consider during ranges, exercises etc.

If one is assigned a task that is running over the meal hour, say --- ammo sentry, and one has special dietary considerations, the onus is on the member to report that consideration ... each time.

During EXs and ranges when my SQs are returning their daily ADREPs or FSRs - the onus is on them to differentiate the types/qty of special meals they will require for the next 24 hours (ie: the next day).  If they do not note that they require vegan, no fish, kosher etc --- they get regular meals.  This is not something that you tell your CoC once and expect to occur each and every time thereafter; the onus is on the member to report each task/EX.

Kind of like how every mess dinner the list goes out asking for allergies/alcohol etc --- and those attending must report their special needs each and every mess dinner.

Making/providing a kosher or vegan meal is as simple as making any box lunch, IMP, haybox or fresh these days.

Expecting the KO or the CoC to remember is not on. The KO works for me and I have to report each and every range, task and EX (especially on Fridays) that I will be requiring fish-free meals.

It is the member's responsibilty to report special considerations each time they are tasked to duty over a meal hour, and once per exercise etc (because once they report once during that EX their SQs should be tracking for the ADREPs and FSRs. If the member reports, they will be fed.  If the member fails to effect notification, they may not be.  Onus is on the member to initiate notification of special dietary considerations - once per individual activity/tasl/EX and the further in advance of that task, the better.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

No meal was provided to him. 

I find that very very hard to believe... you don't send a person on sentry for 10 hours and provide no meals..... and if that is the case then the CoC needs a kick in the nuts with a size 12 combat boot.....

 

[PuckChaser]

Was it IMPs or box lunches? I find it really hard to believe he couldn't find a few people to give him bread/jam/peanut butter to at least make a few sandwiches if it was IMPs.

 

[armyvern]

Was it IMPs or box lunches? I find it really hard to believe he couldn't find a few people to give him bread/jam/peanut butter to at least make a few sandwiches if it was IMPs.

It shouldn't have been IMPs at a range .... (suspect box lunch)

Unless that range happened in the midst of an EX.

 

[PMedMoe]

Yes IMP's. Indeed one could snack on maybe bread or what have you, but really that's no meal, eh? Imagine if you were given a piece of IMP bread and a pouch of fruit as lunch. That's no lunch. It's the principal of it.

*ahem* 

It was IMPs, folks.  :nod:

Honestly, for the cost of one lunch, I think I'd bite the bullet on this one.  Pick your battles.  Just my  :2c:

 

[DAA]

DAA: no soldier with vegetarian rations sitting in their stores cage or made available by the CF should "go hungry".  Apples and oranges. A warrant officer is no soldier's mother, nor is he expected to be by my peers.  Have a little empathy for those with dietary restrictions. Proper meals ought to be provided when given AMPLE notice (in this case, years) when they ARE easily available whether it's a food allergy, a religious belief or what have you.
I am not arguing eating or going hungry. I am arguing the situation at hand. Devil's advocate for could have, would have, should have situations are not what I'm looking for here. I'm looking for help for him to get compensation in some way.

Yes IMP's. Indeed one could snack on maybe bread or what have you, but really that's no meal, eh? Imagine if you were given a piece of IMP bread and a pouch of fruit as lunch. That's no lunch. It's the principal of it.

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand what you are saying and I also support what you're saying.  But you don't know just what was ordered and unless you see the Ration Request, you and I can only speculate on what may or may not have happened.  It sounds like a "small party" tasking, so a vegan meal really shouldn't have been that huge a deal.  But as mentioned by ArmyVern above, the CF member must be and needs to be proactive each and everytime.

But keep in mind, feeding troops, is not a simple task, even though everyone would think it is.  How hard can it be?  Well, it's alot harder than you think.  So yes, things can go wrong more often than they will go right, especially when you're asking Food Svcs to "stray from the norm".

You want to pin point the problem?  It's simple, ask for a copy of the FSR, if the FSR doesn't specifiy a "vegan option", then you have solved your problem.  If the FSR does, then your unit needs to ask the service provider, why the requirements in the FSR weren't fullfilled.

 

[CountDC]

Yes IMP's. Indeed one could snack on maybe bread or what have you, but really that's no meal, eh? Imagine if you were given a piece of IMP bread and a pouch of fruit as lunch. That's no lunch. It's the principal of it.

That would depend on if the member mentioned it in time for his special request to be filled.  I often don't mention my special diet (religious and health) and live with whatever I end up with, picking through for what I can eat. Crackers, Peanut Butter and Fruit Pouches have been my saviour several times.  if I can't be bothered to remember mentioning it everytime needed then why should i expect my chain of command to remember?

I would have an MTEC submitted with receipt to the CO for approval with all the facts detailed in a minute.  If he wants to be nice maybe he will approve.  As an approving auth I certainly wouldn't with what has been presented here.  The first question I would have if such a claim came to me is - When did the member advise his chain that he would be attending the exercise and had special diet requirements? Second is - where is the proof (email, note, memo. collaborating email/note from his chain)?

 

[Mungo]

I'm a reservist. Our unit CO recently told us that there would be no more food claims, unless specifically approved by an officer. This is due to the fact that our unit has repeatedly failed to send us home by 1800 on sundays after field exes. This year, they've smartened up about this, and they only happened to screw us over once or so.

However, our CO recently also told us that we can no longer claim for lunches when we are working class A/B at the unit on account of the fact that there is a kitchenette in our unit, and that we are thus able to make a lunch at home and bring it here to eat whenever we work. Just to be clear, we aren't getting box lunches, or hayboxes or whatnot; We've literally been told to bring our own lunches to work.

I've read the QR&O 36.35 as well as CBI 210.83 that were posted higher up in this thread. I see no special exemption for bringing our own lunches. Am I wrong in thinking that we are being screwed out of our entitlements?

 

[Kat Stevens]

You have to buy your own lunch?  Just like thousands of military pers do every single day?  That's hardly fair, I'd quit.

 

[Teager]

I'm a reservist. Our unit CO recently told us that there would be no more food claims, unless specifically approved by an officer. This is due to the fact that our unit has repeatedly failed to send us home by 1800 on sundays after field exes. This year, they've smartened up about this, and they only happened to screw us over once or so.

However, our CO recently also told us that we can no longer claim for lunches when we are working class A/B at the unit on account of the fact that there is a kitchenette in our unit, and that we are thus able to make a lunch at home and bring it here to eat whenever we work. Just to be clear, we aren't getting box lunches, or hayboxes or whatnot; We've literally been told to bring our own lunches to work.

You are not entitled to meal claims at your unit for regular work. I was a reservist and worked full time and packed a lunch everyday or sometimes bought my lunch from nearby with no entitlement.
I've read the QR&O 36.35 as well as CBI 210.83 that were posted higher up in this thread. I see no special exemption for bringing our own lunches. Am I wrong in thinking that we are being screwed out of our entitlements?

 

[PMedMoe]

We've literally been told to bring our own lunches to work.

:crybaby:

You have to buy your own lunch?  Just like thousands of military pers do every single day?  That's hardly fair, I'd quit.

:goodpost:

 

[DAA]

I'm a reservist. Our unit CO recently told us that there would be no more food claims, unless specifically approved by an officer. This is due to the fact that our unit has repeatedly failed to send us home by 1800 on sundays after field exes. This year, they've smartened up about this, and they only happened to screw us over once or so.

However, our CO recently also told us that we can no longer claim for lunches when we are working class A/B at the unit on account of the fact that there is a kitchenette in our unit, and that we are thus able to make a lunch at home and bring it here to eat whenever we work. Just to be clear, we aren't getting box lunches, or hayboxes or whatnot; We've literally been told to bring our own lunches to work.

I've read the QR&O 36.35 as well as CBI 210.83 that were posted higher up in this thread. I see no special exemption for bringing our own lunches. Am I wrong in thinking that we are being screwed out of our entitlements?

And this is why I stopped eating lunch years ago!

Actually, take a closer look at CFAO 36-14 but at the end of the day, if your unit was allowing you to "claim" for a meal, then they probably didn't bother to read the CFTDTI's

Specifically Chapter 5  - CFTDTI 5.19
(2) (Meal Breaks) Every superior officer shall — unless it is exceptionally unreasonable to do so — provide a meal break to a member approximately midway through a regular work period or shift for the member to obtain a meal at the member’s expense.
(3) (Meals — Delay) A reasonably delayed meal hour does not by itself create an entitlement to a meal at Crown expense.

 

[Mungo]

And this is why I stopped eating lunch years ago!

Actually, take a closer look at CFAO 36-14 but at the end of the day, if your unit was allowing you to "claim" for a meal, then they probably didn't bother to read the CFTDTI's

Specifically Chapter 5  - CFTDTI 5.19
(2) (Meal Breaks) Every superior officer shall — unless it is exceptionally unreasonable to do so — provide a meal break to a member approximately midway through a regular work period or shift for the member to obtain a meal at the member’s expense.
(3) (Meals — Delay) A reasonably delayed meal hour does not by itself create an entitlement to a meal at Crown expense.

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate you posting the actual legalese too. It's sometimes hard to know exactly what we are and aren't entitled to.

Edit: Just so I'm sure that I understand this situation 100%, when does CBI 210.83 apply?

 

[DAA]

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate you posting the actual legalese too. It's sometimes hard to know exactly what we are and aren't entitled to.

Edit: Just so I'm sure that I understand this situation 100%, when does CBI 210.83 apply?

CBI 210.83 must be read in conjunction with QR&O 36.35 and also with CBI 208.505.  CBI 208.505 is basically the trigger and deals with personnel who are "subject to deducations for the provision of rations."  So if you are living in shacks, paying for rations (monthly) and are not afforded the opportunity to attend the Mess Hall during a meal hour or not provided with a box lunch, then 210.83 would apply.

 

[Mungo]

Alright. Thanks a lot for clarifying that point, DAA. Much appreciated.