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Qur'an blunder has made Afghan mission more dangerous

HavokFour

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Don't know if this was posted yet, but there is now video of the cemetery being trashed.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=396_1330563824
 

57Chevy

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                                            Shared with provisions of The copyright Act

U.S. Soldiers Face Disciplinary Action for Quran Burning
Elizabeth Hewitt, 20Jun
http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/06/20/afghan_quran_burning_7_us_troops_face_disciplinary_action_.html

But the military is recommending that the service members not face criminal charges.

As many as seven U.S. service members face disciplinary action, though not criminal charges, for their roles in the burning of Qurans and other Islamic holy texts in Afghanistan in February, the Associated Press reports.

One Navy service member and six Army soldiers face disciplinary action, which, NBC News explains, could range from a letter attached to their file to a reduction in rank. As many as 12 U.S. troops were involved in the chain of events that led to the burning, which set off a string of riots and further frayed an already strained U.S-Afghan relationship.

Recommendations for punishment were included in a report on the incident by a U.S. military investigation, which was submitted to the Pentagon more than a week ago and leaked to the media late Tuesday night. The investigation is still classified, and no final decisions have yet been made.

In February, Qurans and other Islamic texts confiscated from detainees at the Parwan Detention Facility ended up in the fire pit used to incinerate garbage at the Bagram Air Field near Kabul. The burning set off days of riots throughout the country that resulted in more than 30 deaths, including six American troops.

A preliminary investigation in March by U.S. and Afghan officials found that there had been no deliberate attempt to desecrate the religious texts. Regardless, the incident did little to placate popular perceptions among Afghans that U.S. troops have little respect for the country’s religion and culture. While U.S. officials have maintained that the incident was an accident, many Afghan officials claim it was deliberate.
 

Brad Sallows

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>As many as seven U.S. service members face disciplinary action...

>A preliminary investigation in March by U.S. and Afghan officials found that there had been no deliberate attempt to desecrate the religious texts.

Does not compute.
 

brihard

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Brad Sallows said:
>As many as seven U.S. service members face disciplinary action...

>A preliminary investigation in March by U.S. and Afghan officials found that there had been no deliberate attempt to desecrate the religious texts.

Does not compute.

Negligence is often culpable too.
 

Popurhedoff

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I remember how dangerous it was just after the incident, the streets were ablaze with burning tires, large mobs running back and forth up the main J'bad road, all camps and sites went into lockdown. Flash mobs would suddenly appear and charge at facilities, our site was attacked, rocks thrown etc. but we de escalated the situation and let it run its course.  Now being an expat it has become very dangerous, the tensions were very high and any slight would send them off.

My perception of the Afghan people and culture is different now that i am over here and not in a military uniform.  Of all the cultures and countries I have seen throughout my career, I have to admit that the Afghan people are the most respectful that I have interacted with abet with caveats of course.  I found that they are hard working and honest and extend and reciprocate respect with respect. I am referring to the average villager, not the corruptted ones within this culture, the average Joe.

I Command approx 100 Afghan Officers, NCO's and guards, I know them all by name, I eat and have chi with them, we do not talk about religion or polotics, we talk about the children, families, education, they are teaching me Dari, and I am teaching them English. We help each other out and, I bought them gym and volleyball equipment and we have sports together.  I give my weapons drill in Dari, I impress upon them that we are one team, no one is better than another and it is the most rewarding experience that I have had the opportunity to have.

Understanding the culture in important, as I mentoned above there are certain caveats, swearing and insults, we are used to that, but there are some insults which will drive them from being calm to slitting your throat in a mere second, 0-100mph in a second.  Their religion is the most respected and important thing to them and they will defend it to the death.

Our ignorance of them is our Achilles's heel, with all the incidents of the book burning, videos of urinating on the corpses, the murders for sport, and other acts only work against us.  For all the good we have done here, these incidents that keep reoccurring has cost America/NATO/ISAF to loose this war,  The taliban aren't winning it, but rather America is loosing it.

This is a dangerous place, and these incidents only make more so.

Cheers
Pop
 

daftandbarmy

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Popurhedoff said:
I remember how dangerous it was just after the incident, the streets were ablaze with burning tires, large mobs running back and forth up the main J'bad road, all camps and sites went into lockdown. Flash mobs would suddenly appear and charge at facilities, our site was attacked, rocks thrown etc. but we de escalated the situation and let it run its course.  Now being an expat it has become very dangerous, the tensions were very high and any slight would send them off.

My perception of the Afghan people and culture is different now that i am over here and not in a military uniform.  Of all the cultures and countries I have seen throughout my career, I have to admit that the Afghan people are the most respectful that I have interacted with abet with caveats of course.  I found that they are hard working and honest and extend and reciprocate respect with respect. I am referring to the average villager, not the corruptted ones within this culture, the average Joe.

I Command approx 100 Afghan Officers, NCO's and guards, I know them all by name, I eat and have chi with them, we do not talk about religion or polotics, we talk about the children, families, education, they are teaching me Dari, and I am teaching them English. We help each other out and, I bought them gym and volleyball equipment and we have sports together.  I give my weapons drill in Dari, I impress upon them that we are one team, no one is better than another and it is the most rewarding experience that I have had the opportunity to have.

Understanding the culture in important, as I mentoned above there are certain caveats, swearing and insults, we are used to that, but there are some insults which will drive them from being calm to slitting your throat in a mere second, 0-100mph in a second.  Their religion is the most respected and important thing to them and they will defend it to the death.

Our ignorance of them is our Achilles's heel, with all the incidents of the book burning, videos of urinating on the corpses, the murders for sport, and other acts only work against us.  For all the good we have done here, these incidents that keep reoccurring has cost America/NATO/ISAF to loose this war,  The taliban aren't winning it, but rather America is loosing it.

This is a dangerous place, and these incidents only make more so.

Cheers
Pop

And it's exactly that kind of high quality leadership that allowed organizations like the British Empire to be so successful, and generate such an enormous amount of loyalty from the Commonwealth and elsewhere, over the years. That's how you win at COIN, by winning over the locals through personal example which, unfortunately, seems hard to come by in a consistent fashion these days.
 

Journeyman

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daftandbarmy said:
That's how you win at COIN, by winning over the locals through personal example which, unfortunately, seems hard to come by in a consistent fashion these days.
The "consistent" part of the equation is naturally made more difficult by constant troop rotations.  Yes, I know that some people are in year-long line serials.....but overall, it's grip & grin, then ENDEX.


I won't comment on the other side of the personal example coin, which is, "I have a limited time in an operational theatre to make my PER points."
 

Strike

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The investigation into the incident is classified, meaning that there are likely things that happened, or led to the incident, of which we don't know. 
 

The Bread Guy

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"Six Army soldiers and three Marines escaped criminal charges, but received administrative punishments for their involvement in two incidents of misconduct in Afghanistan that roiled relations with Afghans, U.S. military officials said Monday.

The soldiers were disciplined for the mistaken burning of Korans earlier this year at a U.S. base in Afghanistan, and the Marines were punished for their participation in a video that showed them urinating on the corpses of Taliban insurgents.
( .... )

A report on the investigation into the February Koran burning is expected to be released Monday. But officials have previously detailed the incident, describing it as not intentional, but as a mistake compounded by some bad decisions.

U.S. officials have said that the holy books were pulled out by Afghan workers before they were destroyed. President Obama apologized to Karzai for the incident.

Afghan officials, however, have claimed the burning was intentional, and it reinforced perceptions in the country that Americans are insensitive to the Afghans’ religion and culture ....
Marine Corps Times, 27 Aug 12
 
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