Questions : Explaining my criminal record to a senior officer committee

[Stein]

Hi,

I'm trying to join the army. Here's what happened so far...

2002-05-19 - First Application (Infantry soldier)
2002-10-20 - Security clearance denied because of an ongoing criminal pursuit (due to a criminal offence I've done in july 2002)

In january 2004, I have been found guilty on 3 charges (Theft under 5 000$, Public mischief, Plot). That prevented me from applying in the canadian forces... until april 24th 2007. So I decided to use than delay to work and study, so I could be a better applicant later. Here's what I've done since 2002. Academics : Associate degree in Computer Science (Avg : +- 88%), bachelor degree in public relations and management (Avg : 3,3 or A-) and began a master degree in business administration (Avg of A- so far), but I'm thinking about swithching to a master degree in public administration. Work: In 2003, I got a programmer job, but fast became a project manager and finally got a manager job at IBM (at only 23).

2007-04-26 - Second application (Direct Entry Officier Program, Infantry)
2008-04-02 - I went to the recruiting center to get some news, and was told that my application had expired because they weren't able to reach me. (my bad : I bought a new house and forgot to tell them my new address and phone number)

2008-04-03 - Third application (Direct Entry Officier Program, Infantry)
2008-07-02 - Security clearance approved, but the file was sent to the recruiting center without the charges details
2008-07-14 - Medical test done
2008-07-14 - The interview has been cancelled because as I have been found guilty on 3 charges, I'll have to explain myself to a senior committee (not sure if it's the right expression for "Comité d'état major"). Basicly, I'll have to tell them what I have done since 2002, and convince them that despite my criminal record, I could be a good officer. The production clerck at the recruting center is supposed to tell me which documents will be required, as soon he will receive the details of the 3 charges I've been found guilty, and then appoint me for that committee.

Does someone here had to do that or have some infos on that procedure?
Should I worry about that?
Is it a formality or could it prevent me from joining the army?
What will those senior officers expect from me during that interview?

I've been waiting for more than 6 years now to join the army... hope I won't have to wait for another 5 years to get pardon, and then join in at 29!

Thanks!

P.S. Sorry for my poor english... I'm francophone! If I don't use the right english term for something somewhere in the text : please tell me!

 

[CountDC]

Impressive record since then - good turn around.

Not just a formality - this is for real and could keep you out.  The best tip I can give you is don't lie, twist things or BS them. Be upfront and honest with them. If they catch you up then your trustworthiness goes out the door and you with it.  Remember you are trying to prove to them that you are now a fine upstanding citizen and will be not just a fine soldier but a leader as well. I know it can be fun to get in with a past history but it can be done (I'm here!). Maybe it will help you be a bit more relaxed by remembering that not all of us in the military today have a stellar past - that person asking you the question may have the same record you do. At one time military service was an option given to criminals by judges - 2 years jail or join the military!! Many wished after that they had chosen the jail!!.

 

[Greymatters]

(Theft under 5 000$, Public mischief, Plot).

Theft and mischief is pretty much self-explanatory... what's the 'Plot' charge?

 

[OldSolduer]

After five years, apply for a pardon. It clears your record and you can answer the question as "No".

 

[North Star]

After having worked in recruiting, I feel I can wade in.

Basically, if you have any criminal record it will make becoming an officer very difficult. While you have an impressive turnaround, the only thing that can obliterate any shred of doubt is to get a pardon.

Quality Control for officer selection is difficult to say the least. While I admit they are in themselves flawed in certain ways, official records are one of the very few legally recognized ways of trying to tell someone's character beyond the quite limited 1-2 hours interview. So three convictions under the criminal code will be considered very carefully. The committee meeting will not be fun for you I'm afraid: you will be held to account for your former actions.

My advice is give it a try, and then if it doesn't work out carry on with your career plans. If you're still interested after your pardon is processed, head on back. But don't bank on being accepted this time through though.

 

[aesop081]

Theft and mischief is pretty much self-explanatory... what's the 'Plot' charge?

I read his french post......its should read " conspiracy"

 

[Stein]

@CountDC
Thanks for the answer. I think the best thing to do, as you mentioned, will be to stay honest and upfront. It's nice to hear from someone that got in although he had a criminal record. I'm confident that I can still join in. And if it fails this time, it won't later with a pardon... so they should take me in now because I won't give up : if it fails and takes me another 5 or 10 years to join in, I'll wait! Giving up is not an option for me.

Theft and mischief is pretty much self-explanatory... what's the 'Plot' charge?

Maybe I didn't use the right term. In french it is "Complot". Basically, it's a charge they add when the criminal offense has been premeditated.

After five years, apply for a pardon. It clears your record and you can answer the question as "No".

I'll be eligible for a pardon in 2011, and it takes between 12 and 24 months to get. Hope I won't have to wait in 2013 to join in!

After having worked in recruiting, I feel I can wade in.

Basically, if you have any criminal record it will make becoming an officer very difficult. While you have an impressive turnaround, the only thing that can obliterate any shred of doubt is to get a pardon.

Quality Control for officer selection is difficult to say the least. While I admit they are in themselves flawed in certain ways, official records are one of the very few legally recognized ways of trying to tell someone's character beyond the quite limited 1-2 hours interview. So three convictions under the criminal code will be considered very carefully. The committee meeting will not be fun for you I'm afraid: you will be held to account for your former actions.

My advice is give it a try, and then if it doesn't work out carry on with your career plans. If you're still interested after your pardon is processed, head on back. But don't bank on being accepted this time through though.

Thanks for the answer. I know it won't be easy but not impossible. I'll give it a try and work really hard to make it work. And if it fails, as I said previously, it will only delay my career plan (I will never give up on joining the army). And during the wait, I have a really good career already.

 

[aesop081]

Maybe I didn't use the right term. In french it is "Complot". Basically, it's a charge they add when the criminal offense has been premeditated.

As i said above , "complot' translates to "conspiracy'

 

[Stein]

As i said above , "complot' translates to "conspiracy'

Thanks for the translation!

 

[Greymatters]

As i said above , "complot' translates to "conspiracy' 

Not a good word to have floating around in your background when applying for a government job...

 

[Stein]

Not a good word to have floating around in your background when applying for a government job...

Yeah, you're right. Fortunatly, the committee will be held with french speaking officers. In french, there's a really big difference between "conspiration" and "complot". Complot means planning a criminal offence agains't someone or something, and conspiration means planning a criminal offence agains't the state. Complot is a pretty common charge in the Province of Quebec from the moment that a criminal offence is premeditated.

Ithink the best way to know how will end up that committee thing will be to go to that committee...

 

[aesop081]

Complot means planning a criminal offence agains't someone or something, and conspiration means planning a criminal offence agains't the state.

"conspiration" is far from something commited against the state only.

The language of the reviewing officers is irrelevant.

Personaly, i hope they turn you down and send you on your way, but thats just me.

 

[Stein]

"conspiration" is far from something commited against the state only.

The language of the reviewing officers is irrelevant.

That's not what I meant, sorry if there was a misunderstanding. I was only explaining that there's a difference between these two words in the french language. I was not aware that there's no such difference in english.

Personaly, i hope they turn you down and send you on your way, but thats just me.

Why?

 

[aesop081]

That's not what I meant, sorry if there was a misunderstanding. I was only explaining that there's a difference between these two words in the french language. I was not aware that there's no such difference in english.

I'm french so there's no misunderstanding. Theres a difference between both words but the implications of both is not a good thing.

Why?

Its just my personal opinion and i'm sure you really dont want to hear the reason why. You will just get upset and this thread will end up locked.

 

[Stein]

I'm french so there's no misunderstanding. Theres a difference between both words but the implications of both is not a good thing.

I totally agree with you. Both things, although they are different, are really bad things... a bad thing that I now have to live with.

Its just my personal opinion and i'm sure you really dont want to hear the reason why. You will just get upset and this thread will end up locked.

I'm sure I want to know. If you don't find the "politically correct" way to say it publicly, send me a private message. I really want to know. If you think there's something wrong about me, I'm pretty sure I could improve myself by knowing it.

 

[aesop081]

I totally agree with you. Both things, although they are different, are really bad things... a bad thing that I now have to live with.

"complot" and "conspiration" are synonyms btw.......

I'm sure I want to know. If you don't find the "politically correct" way to say it publicly, send me a private message.

Fair enough...PM inbound sometime in the near future.

 

[Stein]

"complot" and "conspiration" are synonyms btw.......

That's not what I read about it :

Il convient de réserver l’emploi des termes conspiration  et conspirer aux cas d’une entente secrète entre deux ou plusieurs personnes pour renverser le pouvoir établi, cas du crime de trahison ou de haute trahison, ou de sabotage ou d’espionnage par exemple.

http://www.termiumplus.gc.ca/guides/juridi/files/717.html

Anyway, we're talking about same thing. We both agree that it was a bad thing that could prevent me from joining the army.

Fair enough...PM inbound sometime in the near future.

Thank you. I really appreciate it.

 

[TheNomad]

So a convicted criminal wants to hold a Queen's Commission.

I think not.  You may have turned your life around etc, but maybe you should have thought about how your voluntary criminal career might affect your later life choices.

You have a history of dishonesty, why should the Queen entrust the lives of her soldiers to you?  It is one thing for a soldier to be recruited with a dubious past, but as a commissioned officer?  I would not want to serve under you, with you, or have you under my command.  How much credibility do you think you would have once knowledge of your criminal past got out? 

You may think I am being harsh, but that is how I see it.  It is not personal and I do wish you good luck in another career choice.

 

[NCRCrow]

I know MP's with prior criminal records.

Everybody deserves a second chance!

 

[Occam]

So a convicted criminal wants to hold a Queen's Commission.

I think not.  You may have turned your life around etc, but maybe you should have thought about how your voluntary criminal career might affect your later life choices.

You have a history of dishonesty, why should the Queen entrust the lives of her soldiers to you?  It is one thing for a soldier to be recruited with a dubious past, but as a commissioned officer?  I would not want to serve under you, with you, or have you under my command.  How much credibility do you think you would have once knowledge of your criminal past got out? 

I had no idea that officers were as pure as the driven snow.   :

http://www.forces.gc.ca/cmj/decisions_e.asp

You might want to take a look at the number of officers whose careers have not been adversely affected by a criminal record.  It doesn't appear to have affected their credibility.