Questions about MP vs MPO

[mariomike]

Can any MPO or former MPO tell me more about what they do? People at CFRC didn't tell me much, the CF website doesn't have much info either.

I'm not an MPO, but these are some discussions you may find helpful.

MP NCM vs MPO Good Bad Ugly 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/106558.0

Planning to pursue career of MPO pls help me.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/63572.0

Military Police 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/26719.0.html
12 pages

Questions about being an MP Officer 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/97835.0

The Military Police [MP] Superthread 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/4577.0.html
15 pages

I graduated with a B.commerce degree with a low GPA. And I'm qualified for the following officer jobs:

logistic officer
air navigator
aerospace officer
armoured officer
artillery officer
infanty officer
maritime surface and sub surface officer
pilot

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Everyone, forgive me it was supposed to be -300 Milpoints at the dumbass post.  :facepalm:

The post by rsn48 is the type of crap that would have resulted in *pistols at dawn* in times gone by.  : 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Must have thought he was posting on duffleblog or the Onion or something. :

What a useless bunch of horseshyte.
Anyone taking that advice is doomed before they start.

 

[dvh1]

After doing some research it seems to me that because policing is a specialized trade, NCM MP's get promoted to Corporal after basic training and MPO's go right to Lieutenant. My question is this: After looking at the pay scales a new MP would make $4622 per month while a MPO LT will makeles at $4137.



Is this correct? Why does the officer make less?

 

[SeR]

I don't have an answer for you, but I'm just curious as to where you found this info. If it's on a site could you please post the link. This has got quite intrigued!

 

[brihard]

After doing some research it seems to me that because policing is a specialized trade, NCM MP's get promoted to Corporal after basic training and MPO's go right to Lieutenant. My question is this: After looking at the pay scales a new MP would make $4622 per month while a MPO LT will makeles at $4137.



Is this correct? Why does the officer make less?

The new MP NCM will go right to Cpl upon being qualified partly in recognition of the fact that to get in they MUST have either prior military experience, or some relevant education that they have paid for out of pocket.

The officer will hit Captain pretty quickly, and sees significant pay increase at that point that leaves the NCMs in the dust.

 

[dvh1]

Canadian Forces pay scale: http://forces.ca/en/page/payscales-131#intro-0

 

[jwtg]

If I'm not mistaken, NCM MPs also qualify for spec pay, so they would in fact make more than $4622.  I have no idea if it's spec 1 or spec 2, so I'm not sure what they make.

Asking why the NCM makes more than the officer is kind of silly, though; you're comparing apples to oranges.  MP and MPO are not the same job.  Corporal and Lt are not the same rank.  NCM MPs, for example, can apply as lateral applicants to the RCMP, while MPOs cannot.  The idea is that NCM MPs presumably do a job closer to that of a civilian police constable. 

The jobs are different, the ranks are different, the pay is different. 

 

[dvh1]

If I'm not mistaken, NCM MPs also qualify for spec pay, so they would in fact make more than $4622.  I have no idea if it's spec 1 or spec 2, so I'm not sure what they make.

Asking why the NCM makes more than the officer is kind of silly, though; you're comparing apples to oranges.  MP and MPO are not the same job.  Corporal and Lt are not the same rank.  NCM MPs, for example, can apply as lateral applicants to the RCMP, for example, while MPOs cannot.  The idea is that NCM MPs presumably do a job closer to that of a civilian police constable. 

The jobs are different, the ranks are different, the pay is different.

Interesting perspective about the NCM MPs doing actual police work while MPOs take over the administrative side. Ive always wanted to be a police officer, but also want to use my Criminology degree and leadership skills to lead a group of people. Wuld MPOs be considered legal officers and get paid the legal officer bonus?

 

[brihard]

Interesting perspective about the NCM MPs doing actual police work while MPOs take over the administrative side. Ive always wanted to be a police officer, but also want to use my Criminology degree and leadership skills to lead a group of people. Wuld MPOs be considered legal officers and get paid the legal officer bonus?

God no. A legal officer is an actual lawyer, called to the bar and licensed to practice law, and paid accordingly. An MPO is an officer who commands/administers MPs and might sometimes (rarely, by my understanding) have actual law enforcement duties.

In my experience, you don't use a degree to lead a group of people. My crim degree, for instance, didn't teach me a schmick about leadership. A degree is simply paper on the wall that opens certain doors that otherwise would have been closed.

Why not simply apply to a civilian police force?

 

[dvh1]

God no. A legal officer is an actual lawyer, called to the bar and licensed to practice law, and paid accordingly. An MPO is an officer who commands/administers MPs and might sometimes (rarely, by my understanding) have actual law enforcement duties.

In my experience, you don't use a degree to lead a group of people. My crim degree, for instance, didn't teach me a schmick about leadership. A degree is simply paper on the wall that opens certain doors that otherwise would have been closed.

Why not simply apply to a civilian police force?

Applications are in, just like you. Ive seen your screen name on the blue line forums. Im in the process with alot of agencies right now, along with the military.

 

[Dissident]

Leading people by virtue of rank/position is authority, not leadership.

 

[brihard]

Applications are in, just like you. Ive seen your screen name on the blue line forums. Im in the process with alot of agencies right now, along with the military.

Gotcha. Best of luck dude.

 

[Schleich]

I have used the search function and I haven't been able to find very specific answers to my question. The general gist I got from the topics I read over basically stated that MPs are on the field while MPOs are behind a desk making sure the MPs are in order. Basically Police Officer vs. Chief of Police type duties? Anyway, I have a few specific questions outside a basic run down on things.

1. If you go through RMC for Military Police you can only become a MPO as opposed to an MP?
2. Going through RMC can result in you being stationed anywhere in Canada?
3. What are the chances of being a very hands-on MPO, for example actually going out in the field with your MPs when you have finished things up behind the desk?
4. Are MP/MPOs only stationed in bases or are they sometimes put on say ships for example to perform the same duties?

Thank you for any assistance, if there are any MP/MPOs on here I would love to hear from you as well as I'm sure I'll be bringing forward more questions. Sorry if I missed the answer to any questions, I honestly searched!

 

[garb811]

OK...

1. If you go through RMC for Military Police you can only become a MPO as opposed to an MP?

Yes, you can only be a MPO.  Unless you fail your MPO training at which point you could apply to revert to MP to complete your obligatory service.  This is not a sure bet though and I have never seen it done.  There are MP who were previously attempting to be officers in other MOS who reverted to the ranks though.

2. Going through RMC can result in you being stationed anywhere in Canada?

Joining the Regular Force will result in you being stationed anywhere in Canada.

3. What are the chances of being a very hands-on MPO, for example actually going out in the field with your MPs when you have finished things up behind the desk?

Should be zero as it isn't your job.  Just as I don't try to take over the Units financial matters because it isn't my job, MPO shouldn't be trying to go out to write tickets or do investigations, but some MPO try to do it.  If you are doing your job right, you won't have time to get out to play, particularly as a Jnr Officer as there is a ton of career development stuff you need to concentrate on.

4. Are MP/MPOs only stationed in bases or are they sometimes put on say ships for example to perform the same duties?

MP go where the CF goes.  Sometimes they are on ship, sometimes they are in the field sometimes they are on the airfield.  MP are relatively rare on ship but very common on the other two, depends on the tasks.

 

[Anakha]

I'm not an expert, but here's generally how I see it. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken somewhere.

A Cpl doesn't get Spec pay until he completes his QL5. That's about 2 years after he finishes his QL3, assuming all goes well. I'm not sure how long it takes a Cpl to get through to his QL3 from the beginning of Basic, but let's call it an even 3 years total from his first day. Once he qualifies for Spec pay he makes around 62k.

A Lt MPO DEO will be promoted to Captain after 3 years from his first day and takes a pay jump from 55k to about 73k a year. A Captain will then cap out after 11 years at 96k if he remains in that rank. Of the NCOs, only CWO can make that income.

Therein lies the difference.

 

[Muscles And Brains]

Hi,

        Currently I am applying to community college for police technology and planning on using the NCM SEP program to subsidize it. Following the mandatory service, I would like to apply to ROTP. I am having trouble trying to figure out which program to apply for that qualifies for Military Police Officer. From common logic, my first choice would be criminology and my second would me forensic science. Could anyone please help me out?

Thanks

 

[MikeL]

Found the below info from google search and browsing this sub forum.  Calling your local CFRC/D and asking them what degrees are accepted for MPO would be another source for information.

http://www.vcds-vcemd.forces.gc.ca/cfpm-gpfc/apm-agp/dpm-gpa/mpa-cep/mpbih-dibpm-eng.asp

Academic Requirements - Officers

To be eligible for consideration as a Commissioned Military Police Officer, candidates will have obtained an undergraduate degree from a recognised university in a criminal justice related field. Commissioned Officer entrance plans may differ according to qualifications. A Canadian Forces Recruiter should be consulted to determine enrolment plan eligibility:

Regular Officer Training Plan (ROTP) - involves the completion of a university education under government sponsorship prior to beginning full-time employment as a Military Police Officer. To be considered eligible for this plan candidates should have attained, or be in the process of attaining, a high school diploma with university-oriented credits.

Direct Entry Officer (DEO) - to qualify for direct entry as a Military Police Officer, candidates should already possess a university undergraduate degree in a related discipline (as promulgated by DMCA).

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/99439.0

MPO

There are two primary pathways leading to employment in the MPO occupation in the CF, as follows:

direct entry under the Direct Entry Officer (DEO) plan; or
subsidized education under the Regular Officer Training Plan (ROTP).

DEO


The ideal MPO candidate has an undergraduate degree from a recognized Canadian university in any of the following programs:

- Criminal Justice

- Criminology

- Emergency/Crisis and Disaster Management

- Justice Studies

- Law

- Police Science

- Psychology

- Sociology



It is also acceptable, though less desirable, to have any undergraduate degree from a recognized Canadian university.  In such case, applicants also require relevant experience in policing, such as employment in Federal, Provincial or Municipal law enforcement or security organizations (e.g. the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the Ontario Provincial Police, the Ottawa Regional Police, Corrections, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, the Canada Border Services Agency, etc "

On the 2nd page of this sub forum I found this thread
"Education Requirements to become a MP or MPO"
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32608.0.html

 

[dapaterson]

ROTP is an entry plan.  What you'd be looking at is the UTPNCM program, an in-service selection program, to pursue an undergraduate degree.

Look up MPO on the recruiting website, and see what degrees are acceptable for DEOs - that should give you an idea of what courses of study will be acceptable.

Or, as always, you can talk to your friendly neighbourhood PSO.

 

[garb811]

Hi,

        Currently I am applying to community college for police technology and planning on using the NCM SEP program to subsidize it. Following the mandatory service, I would like to apply to ROTP. I am having trouble trying to figure out which program to apply for that qualifies for Military Police Officer. From common logic, my first choice would be criminology and my second would me forensic science. Could anyone please help me out?

Thanks

As I noted in your other post, MP is not a trade which qualifies for NCM-SEP.  The best you can do is join a Reserve unit and apply for partial reimbursement under CBI 210.801 (Education Reimbursement - Primary Reserve).  The CF is not going to enroll you full-time and then pay you to go to school.