Poll on CTV *dot* ca about the LAV-3

[vonGarvin]

The question:
"Should Canadian troops still be using the LAV III (light armoured vehicle)?"
The choices:
yes
no
The results as of 1606L 07Jan08:
1589 "yes"
1692 "no"

I imagine that the Taliban have all gone on the internet and voted "no", because I'm pretty sure that they don't want us to use it either.

This to me is a classic case of why opinion polls don't matter.  Here we have a bunch of ill informed people being asked for an opinion.  That would be like asking me what the weather will be like tomorrow: I could guess, I may get it right, but if I did, it would be a sheer fluke as I have zero training in meteorology.

Five killed in theatre by roll-overs since late 2005 and now alarm bells are ringing.  Here's a hint, people: roll-overs happen.  They don't happen on purpose, that's why they are called "accidents".  Yes, they are tragic, but hey, I knew a guy who was killed in an M113 roll-over in Bosnia in 1993.

Link to the poll:
http://www.ctv.ca/news
(It's on the right hand side of the page, near the top)

 

[patt]

you are right ill imformed people taking a poll they know nothing about, now i cant wait for these defence "experts" to talk about it.

 

[armyvern]

I suppose that 1692 people must understand the implication of their vote -- & realize then that we should be walking everywhere or utilizing a vehicle inferior to the LAV instead. Fuck, do they even have a clue?  :  Obviously not.

It's what we've got -- it's what we do -- for crying out loud we are doing our jobs, let us friggin' well do them.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Good thing they never put a comment option there, I am sure we would be reading some spirited ones.

 

[Sig_Des]

Come on, those 1692 voters actually have GREAT foresight.

They know that if they raise enough of a stink, we'll get rid of those crappy LAVs, and finally aquire those hover-tanks that are all the rage.

Great poll, CTV.  :

 

[RCR Grunt]

Good thing they never put a comment option there, I am sure we would be reading some spirited ones.

I sent a comment here:  news@ctv.ca  with the subject heading "Poll questioning use of the LAV III, 07JAN08"

My message was as follows:

"To whomever,

The results of this poll matter about as much as my predictions as to who will win the next World Cup.  You see, I know next to nothing about soccer, except that it is played by kicking a ball with your feet and you can't use your hands.  Equally so, most Canadians know next to nothing about their military and the equipment it uses or requires except that it costs the taxpayer money.  The poll regarding the use of the LAV III vehicle in Afghanistan is asinine at best.  The vehicle in question has saved far more Canadian lives than have been lost due to accidents and IED's.  All you are looking for are some sensational numbers to report to buy yourselves more ratings."

I encourage anyone as upset as I was to do the same with the same subject heading.

If anything, it made me feel better.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

I just voted and was astounded at the no vote! Came here right away to see if anyone had commented...and of course I wasn't disappointed. This is somewhat equivalent to asking people whether they agree with complicated physics formulas....how would they know?? Didn't stop them from voting though. I bet none of them even know what a LAV III looks like.

 

[Bane]

"This is not a scientific poll " - You don't say....

+1 IN HOC, a stupid question.

 

[BigRudy]

I just don't get the point of generating polls complaining about every single piece of equipment we get, anytime something goes wrong. I remember similar discussions on the news about the RG31 after we lost 6 guys on July 4th. "is this the right vehicle for Canada? news at 11" ....Sometimes, in war, and I know this is shocking to many, but bad things happen, and sure it sucks..... but until we get issued our CTS jet packs, people are going to die because that's just the nature of the beast on the ground in a war zone. Sorry, Canada!

For anyone that has walked the ground, Zhari/Nalgham isn't the best driving country, and (I am not speculating here)  all it takes is the ground giving way into a wadi, and any vehicle, LAV III or not, is going to pay the price, to say nothing of the poor boys inside.

It just seems like the general population-fueled by our wonderfully bloodthirsty media- is compelled to have a cynical backlash whenever something bad happens, particularly with our armed forces and policing(reference tasers). 95% of the population doesn't have the experience or knowledge to answer this poll, or polls like it, intelligently and objectively. They just see the news, and feel the need to express an ignorant opinion.

As an example, I don't write to medical journals giving my thumbs up or thumbs down to a piece of surgical equipment, because I don't know what the hell I'm talking about...

I don't write to zoos giving my thoughts on panda breeding techniques, because I don't know a thing about it beyond a show I saw on discovery channel...

it's the same concept of giving an uneducated opinon.

But, at the end of the day, everyone has an opinion, ignorant or not... and that's not going to change just because I take offense to it.

 

[George Wallace]

Perhaps Sparky and company have flooded the NO votes.

 

[Carbon-14]

"Should Canadian troops still be using the LAV III (light armoured vehicle)?"

If someone doesn't know that LAV in LAV III stands for light armoured vehicle, they have no business voting.

 

[George Wallace]

I just don't get the point of generating polls complaining about every single piece of equipment we get, anytime something goes wrong.

Reminds me of the phone conversation I had today with a fellow who asked me what the mortality rate was in Afghanistan.  I pondered that for a few moments and then replied that it was a hard question to answer.  I went on to say that it was probably better than Toronto, with over 78 murders a year, compared to the 70 plus we have lost in Afghanistan over a period of six or seven years.  Come to think of it, Afghanistan is safer.  He seemed to agree.

 

[armyvern]

I have a public opinion poll on the phone with me right now ...

This should be interesting ...  :

What are the odds??

 

[NL_engineer]

Well here is what it is at now: Yes 1928 votes No 2010 votes

Would this be the same reaction if it were a RG31 or a G wagon  :

 

[redleafjumper]

George, (quick thread hijack) while you are correct in terms of a number, (and I am sympathetic to the intent of your response) you are not correct in terms of rate, which was the question.  The rate is based on the population as a whole and since the population of Toronto is considerably higher than the population of Canadians in (or even rotated through) Afghanistan the mortality "rate" of casualties in Afghanistan per capita is considerably higher than the murder rate in Toronto.

Part of the difficulty in calculating such a rate is that one would need consider how to count those going on mulitple tours over the extended time.  The nature of the variables present make such a comparison problematic.    (thread hijack ends)

 

[armyvern]

On the Atlantic Lottery Coorporation. 

 

[McG]

I'm surprised not to see this poll being hotly debated on the CF Facebook group.

Part of the difficulty in calculating such a rate is that one would need consider how to count those going on mulitple tours over the extended time.  The nature of the variables present make such a comparison problematic.   

not hard it is = (total killed/average population in theater over same time) x 100%

 

[NomadWarriorSoul]

My brothers' LAVIII was hit by an IED.

He got to go home unharmed (there were no injuries to anyone) to his loving wife, kids and family.

I'm e-mailing the addy.  They should have asked the personnel and troops using them for reasons stated prior, and not left the results open to the other side getting their $0.02, that's just negligent.  How many average people even have an idea what a LAV looks like, much less seen one in real life, to have any idea what the problem is?

I like that point about Toronto too.

 

[blacktriangle]

It's the media...nothing will ever change when it comes to this sort of thing. There's a reason they didn't ask anyone with experience, that wouldn't accomplish the goal of the poll...

 

[Haggis]

CANOE has an even more bizzare poll question: "Five Canadian soldiers have been killed in light armored vehicle rollovers. Should the vehicle be banned from combat zones?"

OK.... where are they supposed to be used?  Toronto?  The front isn't suitable for mounting a snowplow blade.....  :