Pointing Lasers at Aircraft

[Inch]

I_A_N, something is not clicking for me, according to your profile you're 17, so that means that Sept 11th 2001 you were 14. Something tells me that an FBI director wouldn't be talking to a 14yr old, and if he was, I highly doubt he'd be telling you the kind of stuff you claim.

You seem to have been quite a few places for someone so young. Your profile also says that you're a Reservist in Hamilton, so you must be a Canadian Citizen or a landed immigrant, why were you at a US school in Germany?

 

[Infanteer]

Other then growing up in foreign circles, you've done nothing to prove that you're a Subject Matter Expert on terrorism, laser technology, or piloting an aircraft.  Infact, all your last post confirms is that you are a 17 years old that has trouble maintaining coherence in your posts.

Heed Jungle's advice.

 

[Bert]

Another thing to consider is the dynamics of the population/audience.  Not everyone is
knowledgeable about the facts, practicalities, and specifications of lasers or the use
of lasers in this scenario.  The method and style the media presents information
influences the conclusions drawn by the audience.

As an example, the story presented in this thread is a valid scenario to consider. In addition
the US has been attacked by terrorists. Yet, there is much information, facts and
practicalities left out about lasers not to suggest the seriousness of the threat.  The article
does not say it will happen or not. The reader inserts their own biases and perspectives,
perhaps out of fear of "what should I do next", and reaches a conclusion.  

Its like presenting a simple fact to an African, "A car may severely rust out in
7 years if it doesn't get it undercoated", and then walk away.  What conclusions is
he going to draw?  How about his neighbor? Tell him later this is a possibility in Canada
because of salt placed on the roads and the process of rapid oxidization and is not
likely to occur so quickly in Africa.   Perhaps his initial conclusions would not have been
correct.  Manipulated or not, the general audience is prone to bias, selectivity, and
concluding from what they read.  This is a fact of life.

 

[little_mp]

Alright let me clarify it all i am NOT an expert on terrorism, and futhermore I did live in Berlin for 3 years I am Canadian but my Father was on an overseas assigment in Germany and mostly Berlin so  our family lived there for 3 years, and there are 3 diff english schools in Berlin theres JFKS where i went that is a US gov school they have a half german student population to help the americans learn german Im'm not exactly sure however I did go there heres the website of the school http://www.jfks.de/ I'll even scan my year book pic if it makes any of you feel better, secondly my mum is a hair stylest and she would cut all the US diplomats and Canadian Diplomoats Birts and etc,'s hair in a thing she had in our house and at the time when i was in grade 9 I was very Interested by the events at the time and we had a few member of the FBI get their hair down at my house Including  Bill Gohetz or how ever it is spelled and i would sit there and talk with him as he got his hair done and he would tell me stuff about why terrorists did what they did as well my american History class spend quite a while after september 11th as there were member of my school that had relitives who died on september 11th we tlked alot about it as well but im not an expert and dont comment on soemthing you dont know about my living in germany I am also a biritsh ciizen which incase you didnt know makes me an EU citizen so i could live in Germany without being a landed immigrant or anything u just have to register at the local polizei station.

 

[Infanteer]

Alright let me clarify it all i am NOT an expert

You could have stopped there.  Quit telling those who deal with the subject matter that they're wrong.

Stick to your lane.

 

[Inch]

I_A_N, regardless of what you were told while the guy was getting his hair cut, I'd still be suspicious of what an FBI agent had to say while sitting in a barber chair talking to a 14 yr old, even the FBI understands OPSEC.

The point I was trying to make initially is that from a pilot's perspective, a perspective that you lack, lasers are a threat to normal operations. Think about when a terrorist on the ground would be able to actually see an aircraft. If it's 200ft overcast, they're not going to see the aircraft in time to point the laser at the cockpit, exactly the time that the autopilot is being used, so it's really a non issue if it's overcast.  Now, if it's sunny out, pilots have to maintain their proficiency at landing and clear sunny days are when they do it. Precisely the time that a terrorist would have plenty of time to see the aircraft and point the laser at it. Do you see where the concern lies?

 

[AZA-02]

I'm not an expert in lasers, but in order to reach the cockpit of a landing aircraft, which is landing on airport grounds which is surely closely guarded since 9/11 and that the landing stripe is hundreds of metres away from the barbed wired fence, you would a fairly big laser powered by some sort of vehicle. I would like to see what would happen to the guy that would keep is trunk open towards a landing strip waiting for his prey to come down  ??? My opinion, feel free to say say otherwise. 

 

[little_mp]

Thats what I'm trying to say here ill put it this way so no one can rip it apart my opinion is that its very far fetch and i cant see it happening like i said by the time someone goes to the lengths go get in there and be able to effectively use a laser to blind the pilots, good enough to cause an accident in MY mind they might as well just use some sort of rocket or RPG, and its probably easier to acquire an illegal rocket launcher or RPG than a really really high powerful laser and its also I'm imagining a little more complicated then pressing a button on a laser pointer right? but almost any idiot can use a rocket launcher, I'm sure you've all seen the instructions on the side of an M-72

 

[AZA-02]

we understand each other man, terrorist dont use complicated stuff...proof AK-47, RPG-7 AND SA-7 and a pair of sandales

 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

From what I understand, and remember from when the incident happened, the laser used on the West Coast guys was hand held. Either a targeting laser or a ranging laser, IIRC. They saw the guy out on the bridge with it. When they boarded the vessel, it had gone overboard and Ivan claimed "nyet". It's not complicated stuff and it created the problem.

 

[Kirkhill]

That's my recollection as well Recceguy.

 

[AZA-02]

did nt you say the guys were on a russian sub? They had access to military range finders, were talking about terrorist?  ???

 

[Kirkhill]

No.  They were on a Russian freighter that, from the Senate hearings info, was believed to an Intelligence gathering vessel capable of tracking US subs going in and out of Bainbridge.

As to the availability of military equipment ---- I am fairly sure than and RPG-7 and the Strela SAM are both only available through military agencies.  Any stores out your way selling them?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

No, I never said they were on a sub. They were on a trawler, or some sort, shadowing a sub exercise. Also, with various gov'ts selling stuff to terrorists, don't you think they couldn't buy one of those too. If they can get rockets, they can get anything that's for sale. OBL is worth millions, I don't think the price is any object. Perhaps you may want to research the capabilities of these things, we're not talking a classroom pointer you get at the Buck store.

 

[Inch]

recceguy, you're bang on.

A laser range finder will do the job, and that's just a set of binos. Point and shoot, a monkey could do it.

The incident with the Sea King went a little something like this, they were identifying a Russian trawler (as described by Kirkhill). They didn't see any thing at the time, took pictures of it and headed for home, the pilots started to complain about burning in their eyes (I don't recall how immediate this was), when the photos were examined, they saw the red dot from one of the windows on the bridge. They then boarded the vessel but after the Cdn Gov't dilly dallying, the laser was gone and no proof other than the pictures was ever found.

The reason it's such a threat is because it's very discrete, the pilots won't see where the beam came from and even if nothing happens to the airliner in the short term, they've just destroyed 2 multi million dollar pilots that can't be replaced in any less than 2 years. To the average bystander, it's just a dude looking at an airliner with a pair of binos. Good luck catching him, it's a little more discrete than standing on the side of the road with an RPG.

I feel this is a losing discussion even though those of us in the know feel it's a threat, so I digress.

 

[AZA-02]

OK ill search on it, oh by the way recceguy can you remove that verbal warning thing under my name, i got the point... thanks

 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I didn't put you there, and your penance isn't up till the 16th. No "get out of jail free" cards here. You should have received a PM as to the reason. Contact your Probation Officer by reply.

 

[AZA-02]

lol...ive got rights u na...lol

 

[Sheerin]

I know at Pearson you can get relatively close to the runway and still be on public property; I think its airport road where you can stand at the fence be less than 200 metres from where the planes touch down.  Its kinda cool to stand there and have the planes fly a mere 30 or so metres over your head.

 

[little_mp]

heck at pearson if you drive to Customs HQ you Pretty much are on the runway without going through any security check points at least thats how it was just over a year ago, I was actually quite shocked we just drove down there in a PMOV and were right at the base of one of the terminals pretty much.