Pay FY 07/08
- Thread starter jc5778
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FWIW, you're right.... but it's the only game in town
- Non union businesses give their employees pay increases based on merit... the good ones get $$ while the others get $ or nothing.
Businesses who'se employees are unionized defer all pay increases to the result of collective bargaining. So individuals are not rewarded for the work in their position & the only way you can move ahead is by applying for a higher pay grade - with the addidional responsibilities that come with it.
While the Military is not unionized, we work for the Feds who'se civilian employees are unionized & who'se pay increases are the result of collective bargaining. The military's pay grades are joined at the hip with the Public service employees.
It's just one of those things that we cannot & they will not change.
- Non union businesses give their employees pay increases based on merit... the good ones get $$ while the others get $ or nothing.
Businesses who'se employees are unionized defer all pay increases to the result of collective bargaining. So individuals are not rewarded for the work in their position & the only way you can move ahead is by applying for a higher pay grade - with the addidional responsibilities that come with it.
While the Military is not unionized, we work for the Feds who'se civilian employees are unionized & who'se pay increases are the result of collective bargaining. The military's pay grades are joined at the hip with the Public service employees.
It's just one of those things that we cannot & they will not change.
CountDC
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geo said:
You say this like it is a negative thing. If our pay was not tied to the PS then the TB could give us whatever they felt like and TB does not like to give up its money. If they are going to offer a union 1.5% what do you think they would throw our way if they could get away with it.
CountDC
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geo said:
1999 had only one pay increase - the rest were adjustments to bring us back in line with the PS pay rates as over the years we had fallen behind by small percentages that were not worth anything at the time but added up came to something worthwhile. They still didn't make up for the years of 0 increase so overall we were still behind the increase in cost of living.
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We will never be happy peroid.
I have a SUV,a big bayliner boat,kayak's,a roof over my head,vacation plans...what more does one need?
Oh yeah and a tour that will allow me to be debt free.
If your after money this isnt the place.Hence why upon return from tour I hope to move out east and be a civi again.Without a morgage payment or rent a minimum wage job will be equal to what I make now anyway...
...and a few smart investments are paying off as well 8)
I have a SUV,a big bayliner boat,kayak's,a roof over my head,vacation plans...what more does one need?
Oh yeah and a tour that will allow me to be debt free.
If your after money this isnt the place.Hence why upon return from tour I hope to move out east and be a civi again.Without a morgage payment or rent a minimum wage job will be equal to what I make now anyway...
...and a few smart investments are paying off as well 8)
CountDC
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geo said:
Wouldn't have to wait if the Government teams would stop messing around so much. Ask them why everytime they have to negotiate things that PSAC were already given in prior contracts that they know are not going to change instead of just negotiating new items. The contract they are working on now will probable be another 3 year deal with 1 year already gone by(2007), the second quickly going by (2008) leaving the third(2009) for them to do it all again. Of course come 2010 they will still have no agreement and go through the whole process again. Mind you if you are a negotiator for either side it's a great way to keep employed - drag it out.
CountDC
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If you are after money this seems to be the place to be. Most mbrs of the military could not make this much on civvie street. What more does one need .... let me think all of a fraction of a second - I trade everything you listed for a wife and 4 kids and the means to support them.X-mo-1979 said:
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CountDC said:
Why do people try and say this?Obviously you are either trying to convince yourself of that,or been in that long you don't realise that even without an education period there is plenty of money to be made.
I could easily surpass 60,000 a year on civi street.
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It's true, you could make almost that much to apprentice in a trade out west.
People that sign up to the army soley for financial reasons ought to check out other better paying, lower risk occupations.
People that sign up to the army soley for financial reasons ought to check out other better paying, lower risk occupations.
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Me, I would work for peanuts, a song and a roof over my head... But if you try to touch my leave, I am gonna be surfing workopolis.ca.
I could easily get on civi street and make at least equal pay. But no one on civi street is going to match our benifits. At least not without several years of seniority.
I have friends on civi street who are jealous of my leave package (well, except the teachers)... I could not imagine a leave package that has less then 24 days to it per annum.
I could easily get on civi street and make at least equal pay. But no one on civi street is going to match our benifits. At least not without several years of seniority.
I have friends on civi street who are jealous of my leave package (well, except the teachers)... I could not imagine a leave package that has less then 24 days to it per annum.
CountDC
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X-mo-1979 said:
Or I have done the comparison, shopped the civvie world along with other mbrs I know and found that it is true. Not every trade has a high paying civvie equivalent outside the government and very few will offer the same benefits. Not a lot of call for Infantry, Artillery, Armoured on the outside along with lots of other trades. Some have similar jobs on the outside but again do not pay the same with the same package. Try finding a job that pays 60k a year, has med and dental coverage for you and your family, 25 days of annual plus sick/compassionate/short leave. Don't see too many jobs that fit that bill and if you do odds are there is stiff competition for it. Most jobs I see advertised are paying will below what we make or have high requirements in regards to training and experience.
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CountDC said:
Funny.
Being one of those fine combat arms trades,I am one of 3 out of 38 left in the army that I joined with.Funny thing is they all have huge houses out west,big SUV's in the driveway,and are saving money to buy a house out east.Funny thing is besides high school all they have is their battle school.
One in particular who I visited at the end of maple Guardian (my job hunt,paid for by the CF ;D) was making over 200,000 grand a year.
If my medical treatment you mean our UMS.....
Dental.... I can't get braces without going on freakin TCAT :
If your looking for 25 days off a year and to make great cash head west.It's called "break-up"IIRC.Good 2 months off where the rig's cannot drive around.
I can only say one of the 12 or so I stay in contact with faired out worse.He was lazy in the army as well.
The money to be had in skilled trades alone.Take two years and go to school.
There are plenty of great options out there,the army (and people like yourself) seem to breed the rumours like this.Some weird old school form of retention I guess.
If you couldnt find work paying better than a Mcpl/MS (I am as well) with enough money to make up for the benifits...you must have been trying to live the dream on the east coast or something.
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PMedMoe said:I wasn't complaining about what I'm paid, I was complaining about wording in a CANFORGEN!
Personally, I think I get paid quite well for what I do.
Exactly. Which is why there are earlier CANFORGENs as precedent:
An economic adjustment is COLA.
A comparabilty adjustment is a different thing.
That was the 2004 CANFORGEN, then in 2006 -- we had this thread [Pay Raise for FY 2006] where the wording was:
It again differentiates between "economic adjustment" (COLA) and "adjustment to the special military differential" (benchmark to Public Svc employees) if applicable to the rank.
That all brings us to FY07/08 (ie the raises/adjustments for the FY ending 31 Mar 2008): CANFORGEN 102/07 (which I can not find copied into a thread on-site/and I do NOT have DIN access right now either, so can not pull up to post) ... I am quite sure, specificly noted that bit about the PS still bargaining and that raises to align with their pay would not occur until all tables had negotiated Table settlements. That has still not occured to date.
That adjustment (for Military factor benchmark) based upon the PS negotiations & tables has usually been listed seperately (as shown above) in CANFORGENs.
Then CANFORGEN 175/07 Nov 07 was released noting only the "economic adjustment". It mentions nothing of the Military Factor Adjustment that was mentionned in Jun 07 regarding FY07/08 pay with CANFORGEN 102/07 (the one that we would receive when all tables had settled and it's amount for us determined).
Perhaps they've lumped it all into one "adjustment" terminology this time around and that 2% is all we'll see -- but I'll choose to ever be the optomist. There's still tables out there negotiating from last year ... but I certainly won't be spending what may never come. :-\
They really DO need to sort out their terminolgy and begin utilizing a common standard of wording with these releases. COLA(djustment) does not equal "raise" in line with PS counterparts and mil factor. If, by some chance, the 175/07 CANFORGEN has included both of these items -- I'll agree with you, it's worded very wrong based on precedent Pay CANFORGENs from previous years which kept them seperately listed; especially so given the fact that another FY07/08 Pay CANFORGEN (102/07) made specific note of waiting for all tables to settle (still not done) before releasing that mil factor amount.
So, the question really is: is that 2% inclusive of both the COLA and the mil factor from those PS table settlements which had occured prior to the latest message release despite the prior direction that all tables would have to settle prior to releasing the mil factor? Or not?
The confused wording of CANFORGEN 175/07 doesn't make it clear. And, the prior precedents of listing the COLA & Mil Factor seperately would tend to lead one to think something is still coming once ALL those tables have settled as was stated as what would occur in earlier CANFORGEN 102/07.
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