Paid parking DND property

[Alberta Bound]

There was a lot of talk about 10 - 15 years ago about trying some form of geographic pay scale and also "specialist" pay levels. But the argument was successful that it would be too much time, energy, money to set up and to administer with regular updates. 
There was a lot of talk that there would be a flood of grievances on every perceived decision.

IR, we aren't in the same situation as the CF in that we don't force transfer on quick timelines even close to what the CF does. But a number of people take (usually short term, 2 - 3 year) postings separate from the family. Mainly into isolated posts with the TBS allowances and fairly cheap govt housing make it doable. These posts usually are also spots with high levels of on call and OT pay so in the end it can be done without killing family finances. I did this twice and it worked better for the family than other career choices.

But back on track. We are getting the same hassle about parking fees at all our urban HQs. Not well received either.  The senior officers get subsidized parking (EXs) or assigned cars so subsidized commuting and no parking fee. Not so much at the detachments of any of that at detachments. 

 

[Halifax Tar]

My whole issue is how asinine it sounds to call parking at work a taxable benefit.

Does no one else scratch their heads over how stupid of a rule this is ?   

 

[Stoker]

My whole issue is how asinine it sounds to call parking at work a taxable benefit.

Does no one else scratch their heads over how stupid of a rule this is ? 

I think most people would be happy to pay for parking if we were given regular wage increases and I have no doubt parking fees will increase as well. I'm also wondering how long it will take them to call lunch a taxible benefit and have us pay for that.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think most people would be happy to pay for parking if we were given regular wage increases and I have no doubt parking fees will increase as well. I'm also wondering how long it will take them to call lunch a taxible benefit and have us pay for that.

Well if there was a pay increase to offset the parking costs then there really isn't pay for parking.

This is just simply a stupid policy.  Why charge people to park at work ?  How did that become a taxable benefit ?  Are we at that point that we need to nickle and dime things like this ?  IMHO someone needs to grab the TBS by the collar and shake some sense into them.  Members of parliment ?

In response to the lunch's on ships.  Well that's a horse of different color.  Ships have to keep X number days worth of perishable food stuffs on board.  We either throw it away and buy more every two weeks or consume it and buy more, while keeping cooks gainfully employed.  Which COA makes the most sense ?

 

[Occam]

Here at LStL II (455 DLC) in Gatineau, our outdoor parking was raised from $85 to $95 in October 2014.  They just increased it again from $95 to $110 effective 1 April, six months after the last increase.  Oddly enough, the parking remains at $95 next door at LStL (555 DLC).

 

[mariomike]

We are getting the same hassle about parking fees at all our urban HQs. Not well received either. 

I believe you are referring to the RCMP. It's not well received by Toronto police either.

"Toronto Police officers are fuming that the taxman will force them to pay for parking at their stations while other city emergency workers get spots for free."
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2010/09/20/15418991.html

Firefighters and Paramedics park for free.

How did that become a taxable benefit ? 

CRA seems to interpret employee parking as a taxable benefit only if it is in a “fixed, controlled” setting:
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/pyrll/bnfts/tmbl/prkng-eng.html

 

[George Wallace]

Here at LStL II (455 DLC) in Gatineau, our outdoor parking was raised from $85 to $95 in October 2014.  They just increased it again from $95 to $110 effective 1 April, six months after the last increase.  Oddly enough, the parking remains at $95 next door at LStL (555 DLC).

Was there not supposed to be a 'standard' or 'common' rate set?

 

[upandatom]

My whole issue is how asinine it sounds to call parking at work a taxable benefit.

Does no one else scratch their heads over how stupid of a rule this is ? 

Making people pay to transport themselves to and from work is idiotic in my eyes to begin with. I don't mean their car or fuel, I legitimately mean parking.
Your taxing people, so they can pay taxes.

The penny pinchers are pulling at ridiculous strings here. They are worrying about this instead of issues that actually do matter.

its quite disgusting. Taxes are set high enough, and people paying taxes for parking isnt going to make budgetary constraints fix themselves.

As for the why don't you step up to the job statement by Bruce earlier, I would,  gladly I would, I have often thought about going into politics and trying to make a difference in municipal, provincial, and federal. The problem is I dont have a small fortune to fund it, I also don't think any of the asshats running deserve my support either. So then we are left with individual party idea, and we all know that doesnt work in our three (more of a 2.5) party democracy.

 

[George Wallace]

Although the discussion is about Parking Fees; not everyone drives their car to work.  Many in large metropolitan areas take Public Transport.  In some cases, Monthly and/or Annual Transit Passes are deductable.  The same can be said for Monthly and Annual Parking Passes.  Daily receipts are a whole different matter.  Have fun with the Tax Guru's sorting those out, whether you drive to work or take Public Tansit.

It is expensive in many locations to get to and from work.  Like many have said, it really doesn't make sense to pay to go to work, but it is a fact of life -- unless you work at home.  Unfortunately, being in the military/RCMP does not give you that option.

 

[mariomike]

Although the discussion is about Parking Fees; not everyone drives their car to work.  Many in large metropolitan areas take Public Transport.  In some cases, Monthly and/or Annual Transit Passes are deductable.  The same can be said for Monthly and Annual Parking Passes.  Daily receipts are a whole different matter.  Have fun with the Tax Guru's sorting those out, whether you drive to work or take Public Tansit.

It is expensive in many locations to get to and from work.  Like many have said, it really doesn't make sense to pay to go to work, but it is a fact of life -- unless you work at home.  Unfortunately, being in the military/RCMP does not give you that option.

I expect RCMP ( in or out of uniform, on or off duty ) would ride transit ( including Metrolinx ) for free. As police and emergency services personnel are expected to help passengers requiring emergency medical, police or fire services. 

 

[Occam]

Was there not supposed to be a 'standard' or 'common' rate set?

There's supposed to be an evaluation of market rates done every two years for Crown-owned lots, while leased lots are evaluated as often as the landlord likes.  If the market study supports a raise in rates, the Chief Appraiser of Canada authorizes an increase.  There's no explanation for differing prices between 455 and 555 DLC; they're right next door to each other.  Attached is a listing of market rates, supposedly for July 2014.  I don't know where they got the 455 DLC rate from; it only went up to $110 on April 1 2015.  On July 1 2014 it was only $85, going to $95 on Oct 1 2014.

Nothing parking-related seems to make much sense around the NCR.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I find it odd that , our tax dollars are what paid for the parking lot in the first place, and now someone is charging us to park on what we already paid for.  ???

I paid for my Coleman stove at Canadian Tire.  I wouldn't expect one of their employees to see me using it while camping, and then tell me I owed them $5/month for actually using it.

This of course is using the "common sense thinking model" and can therefore be quickly discounted by the powers that be.

I don't pay and won't at my current posting, so that is just my Joe Taxpayer opinion.

 

[upandatom]

I find it odd that , our tax dollars are what paid for the parking lot in the first place, and now someone is charging us to park on what we already paid for.  ???

I paid for my Coleman stove at Canadian Tire.  I wouldn't expect one of their employees to see me using it while camping, and then tell me I owed them $5/month for actually using it.

This of course is using the "common sense thinking model" and can therefore be quickly discounted by the powers that be.

I don't pay and won't at my current posting, so that is just my Joe Taxpayer opinion.

Thats a prudent point.

 

[captloadie]

I think that the problem is that the general population, and hence the policy makers, now equates "fair" to "equal". You pay for parking in the NCR, at crown owned lots, because there is some unknown group of government employees who, due to their work location, have to pay out of pocket for parking. To make things equal to all, everyone must pay (either out of pocket, or as a taxable benefit).

The public transit argument above is a red herring. People are given a tax break to use public transit as an environmental incentive. It in no way equates to the parking argument.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

You guys do realize that some RSS staff have to pay for parking at some of the Armouries around Canada right?

 

[exgunnertdo]

I think that the problem is that the general population, and hence the policy makers, now equates "fair" to "equal". You pay for parking in the NCR, at crown owned lots, because there is some unknown group of government employees who, due to their work location, have to pay out of pocket for parking. To make things equal to all, everyone must pay (either out of pocket, or as a taxable benefit).

Not quite. If the employer provides parking where it would be normal to have to pay for parking (ie a downtown urban scenario) then it's a taxable benefit. Or the employee has to pay for parking. 

Joe Civvy who works at a bank downtown has to pay for parking. If the bank provides him a parking spot for free, it is to be a taxable benefit (CRA rules,  not Treasury Board, DND, PWGSC, or Public Service). If a government employee gets a parking spot for free, same rules apply.

If the employer provides the parking spot where parking would normally be free - Joe Civvy's wife works at a bank in a suburban strip mall for example - no taxable benefit. Government employee who works out in a building in the burbs or in a small town, same deal (CAF member at an armouries, civil servant at a Service Canada centre in a mall...).

CRA rules say we are responsible to pay to get ourselves to and from work, including paying for parking if required.

 

[c_canuk]

Just because it's taxable, doesn't mean they have to charge for it. You'd just have to claim it on your income tax.

 

[jollyjacktar]

:goodpost:

Just because it's taxable, doesn't mean they have to charge for it. You'd just have to claim it on your income tax.

:goodpost:

 

[exgunnertdo]

True, but in this case, they've decided to go with charging for parking rather than make it a taxable benefit.

In downtown Ottawa, I think most, if not all, parking lots on Crown land are maintained by a 3rd party. The government leases the land to a company who then charges for parking, and takes care of maintaining the lot (clearing snow, repainting lines, dealing with the system to monitor parking). Ownership of the land is a small part of the expense of the parking lot. It is costing the government money to provide parking if they don't charge for it.  I imagine the solution of leasing the land and letting a private company manage it all is the simplest.

 

[c_canuk]

True, but in this case, they've decided to go with charging for parking rather than make it a taxable benefit.

In downtown Ottawa, I think most, if not all, parking lots on Crown land are maintained by a 3rd party. The government leases the land to a company who then charges for parking, and takes care of maintaining the lot (clearing snow, repainting lines, dealing with the system to monitor parking). Ownership of the land is a small part of the expense of the parking lot. It is costing the government money to provide parking if they don't charge for it.  I imagine the solution of leasing the land and letting a private company manage it all is the simplest.

How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go with this? Everything is costing the gov money. Including administrating taxing free parking benefits and pay parking.

How much would you bet against me that this whole exercise isn't actually costing the gov more money than what it costs in real terms, to plow the spots maybe 20 times a year, slap down some pothole fill now and then, and repaint the lines every couple of years.

There is probably a whole dept at the CRA and a position or two at the treasury board, plus all the man hours being devoted to it federally. Then if the bases don't just contract it out, there will need to be positions dedicated to contracting the maintenance work, enforcing passes ect ect.

At the end of the day, this is simply a pay cut disguised as "fairness" that simply shifts money from the pockets of public servants to the pockets of parking lot contractors. The government will not see any increased net revenue imo, but they would if it were just taxed as a benefit.

What's next? docking us pay for heating the buildings?