New Name requred for the CSE Branch

[wepstech]

Okay, query on nomenclature. 

Why is it "Maritime Surface and Subsurface Officer," "Marine Systems Engineer" (and other Marine-named trades), and "Naval Combat Systems Engineer" (and other Naval-named trades)?  Do maritime/marine/naval fall under specific families?

Well, if we're talking about history, the term "Naval" was used to describe anything related to the military navy.

The term "Marine" was used to describe those members aboard ship who wore red uniforms vice blue uniforms, and were the sharpshooters/riflemen during close-in combat situations, and usually stationed above decks. The marines were commanded by an army officer aboard ship who was subordinate to the Captain. Soldiers afloat. Royal Marines formed as the Duke of York and Albany's Maritime Regiment of Foot in 1664 with many and varied duties including providing guard to ship's officers should there be mutiny aboard.

The term "Maritime" is generally used to describe coastal waters of the seas and oceans.

So, while all three terms generally denote a relation to the sea, the word "Naval", to me, is the best choice to use in a job title if we're talking about attracting new recruits. The word "navel" is used to describe the place on our body where we were attached to our mothers in the womb, and also where lint collects.

 

[drunknsubmrnr]

Yep...the world changes when you go boats.

For one thing, after arriving as a killick, your job will stay exactly the same until you're a Chief. For another, a lot of that job consists of supervising the JAFO's as CDC operator. Sort of like filling in as ORO. Then you take all your years of electronics training and relieve your CSE Chief on the planes and drive the boat for a while. It's important not to mock the CSE Chief's hand-eye planing coordination too much because they'll make Coxn sooner or later and remember how mean you were. Then they'll make you suffer instead of some other poor schmuck.

Dolphin 19 ("When we were surface sailors we also used to do silly things") is very very true.  :skull:

 

[wepstech]

Thanks for the tips, drunknsubmrnr! As a SPUT, I've learned very quickly not to mock anybody wearing dolphins, and to grin and bear whatever is being chucked at me - pretty good incentive program actually...

What do you think about the name change?

wepstech :skull:

 

[wepstech]

This might help, although it depends on how many responses we get:

http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/73961.0.html

wepstech :skull:

 

[drunknsubmrnr]

I'll bet that was a fun lesson to learn.

I think it makes sense to divide the responsibilities a little more equally between the trades, although that won't mean much down on the boats. I also think that whatever gets more recruits into the trades is probably a Good Thing, although maybe telling the actual truth should be cut down. Who's going to join if they hear they're going to be doing cleaning stations every day?

In terms of the actual names of the trades, I'm not so keen on anything with the name "Engineer" (noun) or "Engineering" (adjective) unless JAG signs off on it. According to most of the provincial Engineering Acts they're verboten. I entirely agree with Chief Gunner that that was not the original point of the legislation, but at this point the original idea has been long forgotten. This isn't a big deal for the SEP entrants to the trade(s) because they already have the academic background to get into the professional associations, but it might be a problem for the "normal" entrants. Do they get the 16 months of academics before they're "Engineering Technical Specialists" or whatever? The last thing anyone wants is for some poor AB to not deploy because he's got a trial over some rules-lawyering civvie getting a hissy-fit over illegal use of the term "Engineering". Just my opinion.

 

[wepstech]

I totally agree with drunknsubmrnr and Chief Gunner on the fact that it would be a drag to have to worry about somebody losing their nuggets over the word "Engineering" being in the title. So maybe we can leave that one alone for awhile. It's the whole "Does the name matter so much so that it's a deterrant or attractant to recruits" thing that I'm torn over?

wepstech :skull:

 

[wepstech]

If you haven't checked out my poll related to this subject, please do so. It hasn't gotten a lot of responses yet, but the ones that are there seem to be well presented arguments for both sides.

Poll: What's in a name?

http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/73961.0.html

 

[Chief Gunner]

Too all who insist on making this thread about the use of the words engineer and engineering.

Please stop wasting precious electrons on the engineer issue. I think we all understand your position. I challenge you to use some of your time and creativity to make some credible alternative suggestions.

To those who have stayed on topic, I thank you. You have made some great suggestions that I can assure you will be given serious consideration.

I can assure you all that "what's in a name" does matter and that sound scientific studies bear this out. As for the names changing at all I can only point out that if nothing ever changed there would not even be a navy or the computer that you are reading this on. In fact a computer was once a person not an electronic device.

Thanks for the poll wepstech. The results should be interesting.

 

[drunknsubmrnr]

Have you run a focus group on the trade names yet? Or is this the focus group?

 

[wepstech]

You're welcome, Chief Gunner. I'm watching this closely, but I don't think I have anything more to add, since I've put forward my suggestions. And thanks to HanrattSea for backing me up on the suggestion to keep "Naval Weapons Technician". Great suggestions, by the way. From everyone.

I'll be honest here: when I went into recruiting looking for a technical position in the Navy, that's the one that caught my eye. The name sounded very "military" and attracted me right away. I'm glad I chose to be an NWT. No matter what anyone says, even if the job I'm training for can be a little boring most of the time on a submarine , when the fecal matter comes in contact with the oscillating air movement device, my job can get pretty exciting. And it's those times when all the death-by-powerpoint and other tedious training pays off.

wepstech :skull:

 

[Chief Gunner]

Have you run a focus group on the trade names yet? Or is this the focus group?

All the suggestions that come forward from this forum and other means will be given to a focus group. Who knows it may result in a poll right here.

 

[drunknsubmrnr]

Ok, thanks. Any indications on which words score highest with potential recruit demographics?

 

[Chief Gunner]

Ok, thanks. Any indications on which words score highest with potential recruit demographics?

The big eye catchers are in no particular order

    - WEAPONS -

    - ENGINEERING -  (not engineer!)

    - SPECIALIST -

 

[Harley Sailor]

The big eye catchers are in no particular order

    - WEAPONS -

    - ENGINEERING -  (not engineer!)

    - SPECIALIST -

If we add Technician to the mix we can be called " Weapons Engineering Specialist Technicians" .  Then we can say Go WEST young (wo)man

 

[McG]

The big eye catchers are in no particular order

    - WEAPONS -

    - ENGINEERING -  (not engineer!)

    - SPECIALIST -

The first two are good.  I really think Navy or Naval should be in there, and I would get away from specialist.  As was mentioned earlier, "specialist" is sort of a vague label that might describe operators, technicians, historians or even media pundits.  Also mentioned earlier is that the word "Technician" carries a lot of recognition value on the civillian side and therefore "technician" is likely to provide greater value at the CFRCs.

Technician:  The technician usually works under the supervision of an engineer or technologist in the practical aspects of engineering tests and maintenance of equipment.  The basic educational requirement is usually graduation from a program at a community college, CEGEP, or CAAT.  In some provinces, the title "Certified Engineering Technician (C.Tech)" may be awarded to qualified technicians.

from Canadian Professional Engineering by G.C. Andrews & J.D. Kemper.  1999​

 

[drunknsubmrnr]

I like "Weapons" and "Specialist", but "Engineering" and "Technician" are still issues. Especially "Engineering Technician".

Maybe "Naval Weapons Specialist"?

 

[Harley Sailor]

To tell the truth  I just like WEST  because it is a word.  I really don't like "Specialist" It makes it sound like we specialize in something.  But in reality we are a jack of all trades. We work with so many systems that no one can specialize on anything and still be good at his job.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Naval Maintenance Technician (Sensors)
Naval Maintenance Technician (Weapons)
Naval Maintenance Technician (Command and Control)

 

[Harley Sailor]

Naval Maintenance Technician (Sensors)
Naval Maintenance Technician (Weapons)
Naval Maintenance Technician (Command and Control)

And what should the new operator trade be called.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I must have missed the thread for the new super operator trade, but according to the last issue of Matelot I saw, it was not happening as the Board sitting felt it was not needed.