New MH Announcement
- Thread starter Inch
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SAM69 first off let me extend my apologies as well, your first post left me and a few others confused and I(and again several others) believed that you were either challenging or derailing Inch's opinion. We have had many armchair commando wannabes in the past who believe they know more about a certain piece of kit then the people who use it day after day and no matter what you try and tell them these "generals" cannot be convinced otherwise. I also misread your profile as well so my apologies for that as well.
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So after being disappointed last week about not getting an S-92 ride, I was pleasantly surprised to see it sitting on the ramp this morning. The pax lists from Thurs/Fri were no where to be seen so new ones were started and yes, to the disappointment of a few, I managed to get a front seat for the famil trip. ;D
The Sikorsky pilot taxied out and gave me control for the take off, my first impression was "this does not feel like 28,000lbs". The control is so smooth, I pulled it into the hover and with some minor corrections I had a stable hover with about a minute or so of sticktime. I transitioned to forward flight with no problems. That thing has all the bells and whistles, I'm not sure if the Cyclone will have the same setup but it's a sweet piece of kit nonetheless. It's even got a nice lady going "altitude, altitude, altitude" when you're too low, she tells you when the autopilot is disconnected ( I couldn't let George do all the flying), and she tells you when to level off in climbs and descents.
I was impressed to say the least. Here's a couple pics for y'all to have a gander at.
Cheers
The Sikorsky pilot taxied out and gave me control for the take off, my first impression was "this does not feel like 28,000lbs". The control is so smooth, I pulled it into the hover and with some minor corrections I had a stable hover with about a minute or so of sticktime. I transitioned to forward flight with no problems. That thing has all the bells and whistles, I'm not sure if the Cyclone will have the same setup but it's a sweet piece of kit nonetheless. It's even got a nice lady going "altitude, altitude, altitude" when you're too low, she tells you when the autopilot is disconnected ( I couldn't let George do all the flying), and she tells you when to level off in climbs and descents.
I was impressed to say the least. Here's a couple pics for y'all to have a gander at.
Cheers
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Sounds like you are in love Inch 
....will it be hard to get you rated(?) on the Cyclone?
....will it be hard to get you rated(?) on the Cyclone?
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Man am I ever. It's hard not to love it, it even tells you what the wind speed and direction is while you're flying!
Qualified. It's just like any other aircraft, you do a conversion course to learn the systems and you're off and running. They vary in length, I think the Sea King course is around 30 flights and that's for a nugget straight off the pipe so I'd assume the Cyclone conversion will be fairly similar.
Cheers
Qualified.
It's just like any other aircraft, you do a conversion course to learn the systems and you're off and running. They vary in length, I think the Sea King course is around 30 flights and that's for a nugget straight off the pipe so I'd assume the Cyclone conversion will be fairly similar.Cheers
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Wow that thing is big.
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Granted my only point of reference is the Griffon.
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You're right, it's bloody huge compared to the Griffon. I don't think it's that much bigger than a Sea King, it'll lift more but I think as far as dimensions go, it's pretty close to the same size. We had 16 pers on board when we took off and it felt like we were empty.
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Now if only we could attach a nice weapons platform to it.
S
Sam69
Guest
Ex-Dragoon said:
Ex-D, apologies accepted but really not necessary. My answer was a bit terse and I should know better: it wasn't the most graceful entry into the discussion. I extend my apologies as well for my return fire.
Sam
S
Sam69
Guest
Great shots Inch - that's a downright purty helo there. And I am more than bit jealous; I did get to test drive the Cougar Mk2 and the EH-101 but I missed out on both the NH-90 (which I suspect might have been the most fun of all) and the S-92.
How may guys in YAW got to fly the machine? Has anyone bothered to write a detailed assessment of the handling characteristics?
Sam
How may guys in YAW got to fly the machine? Has anyone bothered to write a detailed assessment of the handling characteristics?
Sam
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Thanks. I was one of 6 that day, as far as I know that's all there was. I've heard that a bunch of guys got to fly it last year when they were still in the bidding but I can't say for sure. I don't know of anyone that wrote a detailed assessment, I have limited experience flying helos but I though it handled quite well for being 28,000lbs. The collective and cyclic were smooth and even close to AUW we pulled about 70%Q in the hover. The only thing I really didn't like about it was the fact you had to hold the trim interrupt buttons while moving cyclic and collective otherwise as soon as you let go, the control would snap back to where it was. If you know anyone at HOTEF, Chet flew it and could probably give you a better comparison between it and the Sea King if you've got burning questions.
I'd have to agree about the NH90, I haven't heard first hand how it flies but the stats look pretty convincing. If only the GIBs didn't complain about not being able to stand up. :
Cheers
I'd have to agree about the NH90, I haven't heard first hand how it flies but the stats look pretty convincing. If only the GIBs didn't complain about not being able to stand up. :
Cheers
S
Sam69
Guest
Thanks Inch,
I owe Chet a call so I will hit him up for some more details. I appreciate your perspective.
For the sake of comparison, I'll throw in a couple of shots of the EH-101 that I got to fly. She's marked up with orange because she was still involved in flight testing (icing trials) at the time.
Overall, a very nice machine with many attributes similar to the ones you noted about the S-92. Although she is more than 50% heavier than a SK (I think she was around 32K AUW and change the day I flew it), she handled like a smaller machine and was reasonably nimble for something that looks like it should handle like a Winnebago. Unfortunately, the bird I flew was an RN cab and they had a number of handling restrictions on it (like 30 degrees AOB) that were not airframe limits but rather designed to increase structural life.
The RN 101s have the Rolls Royce RTM-322 engines (our Cormorants have the CT7-8s, I believe) with the dual FADEC. Starting the engines was literally a matter of turning a rheostat from "off" to "GI" (Ground Idle) and the computers handled the rest. Like the SK, #1 was first started in ACC drive (using the APU) with #2 and #3 starting in Flight. #2 was used to engage the head and then #1 was switched to flight as well. Pretty similar to the SK... except it was almost all automatic.
The most unique system in the aircraft was the ACSR (Active Control of Structural Response). ACSR is basically a system of active hydraulic vibration dampeners that function in much the same way as Bose's Active Noise Reduction (ANR). Like ANR, ACSR uses high-speed processing to read the vibration being felt in the airframe and then counters it with powerful hydraulic rams that cancel (most of) the vibration using diametrically opposed inputs. In flight, the aircraft was quite smooth with the system on and surprisingly rough with the system off.
I wish that I had pictures from my Cougar ride: it was quite the sports car. Very fast, very agile, and disappointingly small for our needs. But what a ride!! When I asked the factory test pilot what the maneuvering limits were, he told me not to worry... that I would scare myself before I ran into any trouble. I was able to execute 80+ degree AOB turns (level) at 140-150 KIAS (bleeding speed quickly to 100-120) without him even raising an eyebrow. There is little doubt in my mind that the Cougar would loop and roll with little effort.
Cheers,
Sam
I owe Chet a call so I will hit him up for some more details. I appreciate your perspective.
For the sake of comparison, I'll throw in a couple of shots of the EH-101 that I got to fly. She's marked up with orange because she was still involved in flight testing (icing trials) at the time.
Overall, a very nice machine with many attributes similar to the ones you noted about the S-92. Although she is more than 50% heavier than a SK (I think she was around 32K AUW and change the day I flew it), she handled like a smaller machine and was reasonably nimble for something that looks like it should handle like a Winnebago. Unfortunately, the bird I flew was an RN cab and they had a number of handling restrictions on it (like 30 degrees AOB) that were not airframe limits but rather designed to increase structural life.
The RN 101s have the Rolls Royce RTM-322 engines (our Cormorants have the CT7-8s, I believe) with the dual FADEC. Starting the engines was literally a matter of turning a rheostat from "off" to "GI" (Ground Idle) and the computers handled the rest. Like the SK, #1 was first started in ACC drive (using the APU) with #2 and #3 starting in Flight. #2 was used to engage the head and then #1 was switched to flight as well. Pretty similar to the SK... except it was almost all automatic.
The most unique system in the aircraft was the ACSR (Active Control of Structural Response). ACSR is basically a system of active hydraulic vibration dampeners that function in much the same way as Bose's Active Noise Reduction (ANR). Like ANR, ACSR uses high-speed processing to read the vibration being felt in the airframe and then counters it with powerful hydraulic rams that cancel (most of) the vibration using diametrically opposed inputs. In flight, the aircraft was quite smooth with the system on and surprisingly rough with the system off.
I wish that I had pictures from my Cougar ride: it was quite the sports car. Very fast, very agile, and disappointingly small for our needs. But what a ride!! When I asked the factory test pilot what the maneuvering limits were, he told me not to worry... that I would scare myself before I ran into any trouble. I was able to execute 80+ degree AOB turns (level) at 140-150 KIAS (bleeding speed quickly to 100-120) without him even raising an eyebrow. There is little doubt in my mind that the Cougar would loop and roll with little effort.
Cheers,
Sam
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Great pics, I'll post one up of the lit up instrument panel.
The S-92 is about as automatic as you get for starts, you flip a switch to turn on the APU, then you advance the SSLs to get the hot air blown out, and then if a certain temp or pressure(I don't remember exactly what it was) is within limits, you could start both engines at the same time. It's all computer controlled so you could advance the SSLs as quick as you wanted with no ill effects. Pretty slick I must say. I didn't get any pics of the overhead panel but it's pretty similar to the centre console and the instrument panel, about 10 years newer than the 101. As for the handling, I didn't really get to do any 60 and 2's, word on the street is the pax don't like it too much.
It'll be interesting to see how the Cyclone will be set up, whether or not the APU will unfold the blades and pylon or if an engine will have to be started to power the hydraulics, that would pretty much negate the coolness of being able to start both engines at the same time.
Cheers
The S-92 is about as automatic as you get for starts, you flip a switch to turn on the APU, then you advance the SSLs to get the hot air blown out, and then if a certain temp or pressure(I don't remember exactly what it was) is within limits, you could start both engines at the same time. It's all computer controlled so you could advance the SSLs as quick as you wanted with no ill effects. Pretty slick I must say. I didn't get any pics of the overhead panel but it's pretty similar to the centre console and the instrument panel, about 10 years newer than the 101. As for the handling, I didn't really get to do any 60 and 2's, word on the street is the pax don't like it too much.
It'll be interesting to see how the Cyclone will be set up, whether or not the APU will unfold the blades and pylon or if an engine will have to be started to power the hydraulics, that would pretty much negate the coolness of being able to start both engines at the same time.
Cheers
S
Sam69
Guest
Nice shot - that has to be one of the nicest pits ever made. It's also great to see that the Land Low coast crawl is still mandatory for every famil flight. ;D
Sam
Sam
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*will be ready for Inch the next time he overflies my house*
**evil laughter and hides his brand new shiney SA-7**
**evil laughter and hides his brand new shiney SA-7**
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Would the Cyclone be something the Tac Helo squadrons would want and regulate the Griffon to utility and maybe eventually armed recce duties?
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Yeah, the coast crawl was fun, we overflew a cruise ship coming out of the harbour at about, uh, 500ft
ExD, you better hit the gym buddy, the rotor wash from a 28,000lb helo tends to blow sissies over! ;D
As for the Tac Hel guys wanting them , I think they'd want them to have a medium - heavy airlift capability but I don't think you could use them in a Tactical airlift role. The Griffon has a few advantages like the size for example, you can get the Griffon into a whole lot more clearings in the woods than you could a Cyclone. Plus it's a 1/3 of the weight so you don't have the same ability to blow stuff over like the Cyclone would. So IMHO, I think it would be too big to do everything the Griffon does, but it would add some capabilities that were lost when the Chinooks were sold. Sam could probably shed a little more light on the role the Chinooks were used in since the Chinooks were long gone when I got in.
Cheers
ExD, you better hit the gym buddy, the rotor wash from a 28,000lb helo tends to blow sissies over! ;D
As for the Tac Hel guys wanting them , I think they'd want them to have a medium - heavy airlift capability but I don't think you could use them in a Tactical airlift role. The Griffon has a few advantages like the size for example, you can get the Griffon into a whole lot more clearings in the woods than you could a Cyclone. Plus it's a 1/3 of the weight so you don't have the same ability to blow stuff over like the Cyclone would. So IMHO, I think it would be too big to do everything the Griffon does, but it would add some capabilities that were lost when the Chinooks were sold. Sam could probably shed a little more light on the role the Chinooks were used in since the Chinooks were long gone when I got in.
Cheers
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