NCMs Jacking Up Commissioned Officers

[canadiancarebear]

Allright.
Im a commissioned officer ...of the junior type who needs some advice from those NCM's and officers with experince.  When an overzealous NCM starts talking to you in a disrespectful manner in front of a group of other officers and tries to "jack" you up for something what is the correct way to handle it.  Im asking this question because being posted to the language school in st jean theres some NCM's around who get a little "overzealous" and don't seem to know the differance in how to treat a commissioned officer from a private.  Just a curious question that could use a few answers....
Thank you

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

If its a safety issue and your attention needs to be focused to avoid loss of limb or life then I don't see an issue. However if errors are made by either officers or ncms the best approach is to take the person aside and to explain the situation. Diplomacy goes both ways.

 

[DogOfWar]

Allright.
Im a commissioned officer ...of the junior type who needs some advice from those NCM's and officers with experince.   When an overzealous NCM starts talking to you in a disrespectful manner in front of a group of other officers and tries to "jack" you up for something what is the correct way to handle it.   Im asking this question because being posted to the language school in st jean theres some NCM's around who get a little "overzealous" and don't seem to know the differance in how to treat a commissioned officer from a private.   Just a curious question that could use a few answers....
Thank you

are you on a course and he is an instructor? What exactly happened? Did you put everyones life at risk? Did you do something that disrespected him or a superior officer? is it a matter of you being chatty in a classroom while he is trying to teach? If you feel he wronged you go and have a chat with him. But if you boned up and he called you on it I suggest you get over it.

 

[Inch]

I agree with Ex-D, if it was a safety issue, so be it. If it wasn't then it doesn't matter whether you're on course or not (BOTC being the obvious exception), you should be taken aside and corrected in private vice being corrected in front of your peers. If you're in the wrong, you better not start pulling rank, I personally believe that to be very unprofessional. Just admit you were wrong and politely ask the proper way of doing it. If it's an arbitrary jacking up, then by all means, take action as necessary but again, not in front of subordinates or peers either yours or his/hers.

 

[Cloud Cover]

When an overzealous NCM starts talking to you in a disrespectful manner in front of a group of other officers and tries to "jack" you up for something what is the correct way to handle it.   Im asking this question because being posted to the language school in st jean theres some NCM's around who get a little "overzealous" and don't seem to know the differance in how to treat a commissioned officer from a private.  

Perhaps a little more information, by way of example, might help ...

 

[Gunner98]

If you are student on French Training and there are NCMs in your class, then you are both students. If you are doing something inappropriate you are receiving correction and it does not need to be done privately.  Since you are according to your profile a female 22U 2Lt and you say you are commissioned, the respect you have earned so far is a Ms or Ma'am along with the approp. correction. 

NCM learn to never pass a fault from day one.  Very junior officers learn a little slower.  If you perceive that you are being Jacked up and your peers feel the same way, then you should ask to speak privately with the individual.  If it is persistent then put your complaint and observations in writing and pass it up the chain.

A 2Lt does not have a lot of rank to pull, although I have seen many try unsuccessfully.  You best learn soon how to handle issues with NCMs as the gun line will be full of them.  If there are any Sr NCO (Sgts and above) on training or living in the quarters with you, then I would ask for their advice.

Your skin needs to grow a little thicker (in my 14 years as Gnr Offr I took and earned a lot of abuse from my subordinates with time you will learn to weed out the approp. from the inapprop.)- the Artillery is a predominantly drill manual-driven world, officers tend to think and ask to many questions, whereas NCMs do as they are taught and follow the drills.

St. Jean is not the real world so do not apply real world logic.  Does the Base CWO still inspect all room configurations regularly, where else in the real world does the RSM waste his time in such a manner.

 

[canadiancarebear]

LOL.  No no one has "jacked" me up.  But it has been an issue around the language school with a few individuals and I was just curious what the correct action would be.  The people it is happening to are junior officers with the language school and the sometimes overzealous NCMs are people from the recruit school who just happen to notice a flaw..Im just asking out of curiosity as I have alwasy found it better to learn from those with the experience that way should a situation arise to be able to handle it properly. Thank you.

 

[DogOfWar]

LOL.   No no one has "jacked" me up.   But it has been an issue around the language school with a few individuals and I was just curious what the correct action would be.   The people it is happening to are junior officers with the language school and the sometimes overzealous NCMs are people from the recruit school who just happen to notice a flaw..Im just asking out of curiosity as I have alwasy found it better to learn from those with the experience that way should a situation arise to be able to handle it properly. Thank you.

you are dodging the question again- what EXACTLY happened. If students are getting picked up for having shitty deportment by nasty instructor Master Jacks- thats what they are paid for.

Please disregard all posts by this person...Especially this one!

Slim
STAFF

 

[redleafjumper]

I agree that more information is needed here.  Generally when something like that starts to happen the appropriate thing is to move the conversation to somewhere private - unless it is an emergency (safety issue) it  is usually highly inappropriate to discipline someone in public, especially when there is a disparity between rank.

Again there are times and circumstances that other answers might apply - without more information it is hard to say. I think that there is a saying that originates out of the MP branch that goes something like this:  "Sir, please don't confuse your rank with my authority"  The reverse is also true - "Corporal, please don't confuse your authority with my rank."  A little bit of mutual respect and good manners goes a long way.

My own reaction, again depending on the circumstances, would be to call a cease fire and move to an appropriate venue to sort it out in private.  As a subaltern, it is very important to listen to those with experience, and then make your decision with all the best information, but the end of the day if you are senior you are responsible and you will wear the decision you make.  There is some good general advice (and some tongue in cheek) at this site:

http://members.tripod.com/RegimentalRogue/

Check it out, you might find some of the advice to junior officers very useful. 

Sorry if this sounds a little wishy washy, but without more information that's the best I can do.

 

[Erborn]

Would someone please tell this old soldier what is a NCMS

 

[mdh]

Aren't we supposed to be jacked up by NCMs on course?? It's a character-building experience.

 

[Inch]

Would someone please tell this old soldier what is a NCMS

Non-Commissioned Member

 

[canadiancarebear]

Allright
This topic seems to be getting some negativity and to those of you I have somehow ticked off Im sorry it was not my intention.  It was just a curiosity.  However to clarify...No none of the junior officers here are on any type of course.  It just so happens that the language school is next door to the recruit school so we see their NCMs all the time in halls and whatnot and there have been some issues with other people that I have seen ( BUT for another time it has not happened to me!!!!) where a passing MCPL has jacked up a junior officer..sometimes a LT as well in front of their peers for something small that they would notice in passing. I was just curious enough to ask the question on here because I have witnessed some junior officers handling it badly ie. trying to pull rank, publicly arguing with the NCM etc.  so I was just curious what the correct way of handling a situation like that would be.  Thats all.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I think the term "jacked -up" is what has people confused, when I jack you up you will know what a jack-up is, however if I saw you with some form of wrong dress[ or similar] and said " I don't believe your pants get tucked in your socks, sir/ maam",then thats just a respectful correction and not a "jack-up".

...and furthur, do not be afraid to ask these questions, there is a wide variety of "talent" here that can offer advice on these things, that is part of our agenda here.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I think you got your answer.  Ask the NCM if you could find a private corner to continue discussion.  Barring that suck it up, and chalk it up to life experience.

 

[Chimo]

My advice to a  junior Officer would be don't go there thinking there will be a confrontation or I am sure you will find it.

The Overzealous NCOs you are referring to are there because they do not pass faults, cut corners or handle BS kindly. If you need to be corrected I am sure it will happen. Some NCOs are more skilled in tact then others but an on the spot correction should and most likely will take place.

During any good jacking up session, three events will be stated, first- what the problem was that lead to this encounter, secondly, what the proper action should have been, and lastly, what corrective action must be taken.

My advice to you is not to worry if the NCO is talking to you like a private or not, if you deserve to be spoken to like a private I am sure the NCO will accommodate you, however, listen and listen closely to what the NCO is saying and  you may actually learn something and you troops in the future may benefit from that knowledge.

If the NCO is truly insubordinate, do not get into a shouting match, note the Name and Rank, the details of the situation, and any witnesses and address it through your Chain of Command, just like we would do in the Army. 

 

[Britney Spears]

Since you already get the big bucks and the hi-fives, we kinda expect you to get things right the first time. 

 

[S McKee]

All right Carebear if your writing into a public form wondering what to do because you got "jacked-up" by an NCO then like most young officers you probably needed it. Carry-on...

 

[Kat Stevens]

If they are recruit school staff, and jr offrs are slouching around like a sack full of doorknobs tied loosely about the middle, that is a bad example for the boots, and deserves correction.  Lead by example ring any bells?  ;D

Kat

 

[devil39]

I was only jacked publicly by one CWO as a commissioned officer, and that was in the "old" infantry School.  Generally the "good" or "respected" Sgts and WO's corrected Junior officers in private from my experience.  They usually get their expected results as well from my experience.