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Navy to consider gender-neutral ranks

Eaglelord17

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Huh its almost like the CAF has a history of calling people ranks that didn't exist anymore. The arty "insisting" on calling their Ptes, Cpls, and MCpls the 'ranks' of Gnr, Bdr, and MBdr before the most recent rank change sticks out pretty plainly in my mind.
 

Jarnhamar

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Eaglelord17 said:
Huh its almost like the CAF has a history of calling people ranks that didn't exist anymore. The arty "insisting" on calling their Ptes, Cpls, and MCpls the 'ranks' of Gnr, Bdr, and MBdr before the most recent rank change sticks out pretty plainly in my mind.

Blinded by the virtue signals light perhaps?
 

FJAG

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Eaglelord17 said:
Huh its almost like the CAF has a history of calling people ranks that didn't exist anymore. The arty "insisting" on calling their Ptes, Cpls, and MCpls the 'ranks' of Gnr, Bdr, and MBdr before the most recent rank change sticks out pretty plainly in my mind.

I held the rank of "gunner" pre-unification and would have been deeply offended (especially being a teenager at the time) if anyone had called me a "private". Luckily no one ever told us in 1968 that we were all "privates". Within the regiments we never did change the ranks and everyone remained a "gunner" or "bombardier". The same couldn't be said for the poor staff sergeants who all had to become warrant officers.

:cheers:
 

Lumber

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Anyone know what we're suppose to say when making pipes? Is it "Sailor 2nd Clas Bloggins, 257, Sailor 2nd Class Bloggins. ", or just "Sailor Bloggins, 257, Sailor Bloggins". I know when yelling at them the chiefs are supposed to just say "Sailor Bloggins!", but what about with pipes?
 

dimsum

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Lumber said:
Anyone know what we're suppose to say when making pipes? Is it "Sailor 2nd Clas Bloggins, 257, Sailor 2nd Class Bloggins. ", or just "Sailor Bloggins, 257, Sailor Bloggins". I know when yelling at them the chiefs are supposed to just say "Sailor Bloggins!", but what about with pipes?

If we're going by number of syllables, "Ordinary Seaman Bloggins" has more than "Sailor 2nd Class Bloggins".  So what's the problem?
 

AmmoTech90

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Eaglelord17 said:
Huh its almost like the CAF has a history of calling people ranks that didn't exist anymore. The arty "insisting" on calling their Ptes, Cpls, and MCpls the 'ranks' of Gnr, Bdr, and MBdr before the most recent rank change sticks out pretty plainly in my mind.

You mean the following ranks that are listed in QR&O Vol I, Chap 3: Trooper, Gunner, Sapper, Signaller, Private, Guardsman, Fusilier, Rifleman, Voltigeur, Craftsman, Musician, Piper, Drummer, Ranger, Bombardier, Colour Sergeant

They exist.  Just because you think they don't doesn't mean you aren't wrong.
 

MJP

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AmmoTech90 said:
You mean the following ranks that are listed in QR&O Vol I, Chap 3: Trooper, Gunner, Sapper, Signaller, Private, Guardsman, Fusilier, Rifleman, Voltigeur, Craftsman, Musician, Piper, Drummer, Ranger, Bombardier, Colour Sergeant

They exist.  Just because you think they don't doesn't mean you aren't wrong.

I don't think they (or some of themin common usage anyway) "existed" before 2015 officially. Highlighting that my snarky post regarding the RCN trying to appear woke rather than do the work associated was off the mark. Rather the CAF as a general rule has a problem doing things properly.
 

dimsum

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FJAG said:
I held the rank of "gunner" pre-unification and would have been deeply offended (especially being a teenager at the time) if anyone had called me a "private". Luckily no one ever told us in 1968 that we were all "privates". Within the regiments we never did change the ranks and everyone remained a "gunner" or "bombardier". The same couldn't be said for the poor staff sergeants who all had to become warrant officers.

:cheers:

I've never worked with many (any?) Arty folks before, so how does the rank progression work?  Bombardier, Corporal, Master Bombardier?
 

Kat Stevens

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Dimsum said:
I've never worked with many (any?) Arty folks before, so how does the rank progression work?  Bombardier, Corporal, Master Bombardier?
Gunner, Bombardier, Master Bombardier, Supervisor, Manager, District Manager, Superintendent.
 

FJAG

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Target Up said:
Gunner, Bombardier, Master Bombardier, Supervisor, Manager, District Manager, Superintendent., Sergeant, Warrant Officer etc

You confused the guns with NDHQ. A common mistake considering their omnipotence.

FTFY

;D
 

Oldgateboatdriver

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All I know is that, while the NDA Annex that recognized naval ranks was in force for the whole time I was in the CAF, it remains that in the 70's and early 80's (I think it finally stopped in 1982), my god damn pay check kept saying Private Trudel, Corporal Trudel, OCDT Trudel and LT Trudel (we skipped 2LT in the reserves in those days, but remained OCDT one more year than the militia).

My first check with my correct rank was when I got promoted to Acting Lieutenant (N), and my check actually said LT  ;D.

If you keep paying a person using a certain designation, the person starts to believe that is what he/she is.

 

Pieman

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I'm waiting for the gender ambigous ranks - Sir Sargentette, Mistress Gunnerman, Person Popper, Trans Corporal ...etc.
 

OldSolduer

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Pieman said:
I'm waiting for the gender ambigous ranks - Sir Sargentette, Mistress Gunnerman, Person Popper, Trans Corporal ...etc.

You got a chuckle from me on that one.
 

FSTO

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Lumber said:
Anyone know what we're suppose to say when making pipes? Is it "Sailor 2nd Clas Bloggins, 257, Sailor 2nd Class Bloggins. ", or just "Sailor Bloggins, 257, Sailor Bloggins". I know when yelling at them the chiefs are supposed to just say "Sailor Bloggins!", but what about with pipes?

I predict that it will be "S2 Bosn Bloggins, 257"

In this time of social media driven leading change process, this has been a poop parade right from the start.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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Lumber said:
Anyone know what we're suppose to say when making pipes? Is it "Sailor 2nd Clas Bloggins, 257, Sailor 2nd Class Bloggins. ", or just "Sailor Bloggins, 257, Sailor Bloggins". I know when yelling at them the chiefs are supposed to just say "Sailor Bloggins!", but what about with pipes?

Stop asking these questions or we will kick you out LMAO!

I don't have a problem with the rank change.  I do have a problem with the threatening tone and veiled threats levied against people with dissenting views by the CoC. 

Also the fact they didn't follow any rules or due process is another issue. 
 

MJP

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Humphrey Bogart said:
I don't have a problem with the rank change.  I do have a problem with the threatening tone and veiled threats levied against people with dissenting views by the CoC. 

It's almost like they don't understand how inclusive or authentic leadership works. Instead in true military fashion we have decreed something so it will be.

* For the record I don't care about the rank change. I like HB am just amazed at how tone deaf our leadership is when it comes to trying to make the CAF a diverse and inclusive workplace (again a very good thing). Hint... it isn't by force, threats or bluster  but that and decrees that we will become more diverse are all we see.
 

quadrapiper

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Humphrey Bogart said:
I do have a problem with the threatening tone and veiled threats levied against people with dissenting views by the CoC.
Given the addled, volatile, invective-laden frothing I saw on the few, very tame RCN FB groups I lurk on, I can infer (without e.g. trawling the depths of Reddit) what else was being flung about, and absolutely understand the hammer being dropped.
 

MJP

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quadrapiper said:
Given the addled, volatile, invective-laden frothing I saw on the few, very tame RCN FB groups I lurk on, I can infer (without e.g. trawling the depths of Reddit) what else was being flung about, and absolutely understand the hammer being dropped.

Which is a very good point, I don't have social media but in the past when I did was amazed at the level of vitriolic outbursts by serving and veterans alike on any decision or issue.

 

Blake Castelein

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FSTO said:
I predict that it will be "S2 Bosn Bloggins, 257"

In this time of social media driven leading change process, this has been a poop parade right from the start.
Currently on ship we are using "Sailor Bloggins, 257, Sailor Bloggins". Same with being piped to spaces it's just "Sailor Bloggins, Coxn's Office" . There's no 1st, 2nd class, etc, being used on pipes.

Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk

 

boot12

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quadrapiper said:
Given the addled, volatile, invective-laden frothing I saw on the few, very tame RCN FB groups I lurk on, I can infer (without e.g. trawling the depths of Reddit) what else was being flung about, and absolutely understand the hammer being dropped.

Agreed.

As a point of clarification though, as a semi-regular Reddit reader for the last 8-10 years, I can fairly confidently state that mentions of the CAF are essentially non-existent within Reddit outside of the dedicated CAF subreddit, and this includes the Canadian-specific subreddits which often tend to mirror/discuss the Canadian news cycle (i.e. ignore the CAF unless there's a controversy).

Notwithstanding a bit of historical conflict between the CAF subreddit and this site, I would say that I am generally impressed with the subreddit's laissez-faire approach to moderation, while also being very on the ball with quickly deleting inappropriate posts with regards to OPSEC considerations or hate speech. So while I understand where you're coming from describing Reddit as a large website in which posters often contribute inflammatory views, I don't think it can be blamed in this specific instance.

Without having any insider information on the matter, seeing as the public survey for the rank change initiative included a comments box, I am quite confident that the RCN leadership's heavy handed public response to this matter came about as a response to some truly hateful and sexist bullshit being submitted to both the comments box as well as some more private CAF veteran groups (of which there are many).
 
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