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Navy to consider gender-neutral ranks

OldSolduer

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FJAG said:
One might think that "Rifle Bloggins" and "Guard Bloggins" might do. On the other hand "Craftie Bloggins", not so much.

;D

So a sandwich maker could be Spreadie Bloggins???
 

PuckChaser

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Hamish Seggie said:
So a sandwich maker could be Spreadie Bloggins???
I thought they were called Stewards in the RCN?
 

Kat Stevens

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When I used to own a sandwich maker I just called her by her first name.
 

Lumber

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https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/todays-letters-name-change-wont-help-the-navy

What a garbage opinion piece/write in column. Did they do any kind of quality control before publish this bit of rubbish?

I don't know if any of you know Chief (ret'd) George Ferrall, but let me summarize the ways he's missed the boat:

1. He skips over the "Leading" twice when listing out ranks;
2. He got the new ranks COMPLETELY wrong;
3. He seems to relish the bygone days of sailors living under the poverty line;
4. He doesn't know the origin and meaning of the term "petty" in Petty Officer; and
5. He seems to think we should be living and working in such a way that honours the memory and personal opinions of Nelson.

What a hack. Thankfully, I don't anyone really saw this column.
 

TCM621

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Lumber said:
https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/todays-letters-name-change-wont-help-the-navy

What a garbage opinion piece/write in column. Did they do any kind of quality control before publish this bit of rubbish?

I don't know if any of you know Chief (ret'd) George Ferrall, but let me summarize the ways he's missed the boat:

1. He skips over the "Leading" twice when listing out ranks;
2. He got the new ranks COMPLETELY wrong;
3. He seems to relish the bygone days of sailors living under the poverty line;
4. He doesn't know the origin and meaning of the term "petty" in Petty Officer; and
5. He seems to think we should be living and working in such a way that honours the memory and personal opinions of Nelson.

What a hack. Thankfully, I don't anyone really saw this column.

I'm pretty sure you missed the boat when you read his column. You also attempted to read his mind rather than look at the article. While he did get the ranks wrong, it doesn't invalidate his points. The key change is seaman to sailor rather than 1st class, etc.

His point about the poverty was that even though joining the Navy meant a wage below the poverty line recruiting was never an issue. In fact, everything people claim is hurting retention and recruiting was there is spades back then. Imagine sailing over 200 days a year, for a crappy wage that isn't enough to pay your bills and you could be posted anywhere. When. You complained they said there's the door because they k ew they had guys lining up to join.

He very well could know the history of the term Petty Officer but his point is the petty is a word with a negative connotation and it never stopped anyone from wanting to be one.

Of all the services, the Navy is the most concerned with tradition. The greatest thing that happened to them in 50 years was getting their executive curl back. So of course, a retired CPO1 wants to honour tradition. After all the conditioning they give on your Chiefs course, he would be physically unable to accept new ranks without complaint. At least he isn't making the case for wind powered cruisers.
 

torg003

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Has this decision been reversed?
I remember looking on the CF website around the end of Sept. and they had changed the rank chart of naval ranks to the new designation of "sailor". But looking at it just recently, the rank titles have been changed back to the seaman designations (MS, LS, AS, OS).
So, what's going on?
 

dapaterson

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Per the NDA (below), the legal authority to change designations of rank is the Governor-in-Council. The designations of rank are found in QR&O 3.01. Until QR&O 3.01 is amended, the announcement of CRCN has no legal effect.

Ranks of officers and non-commissioned members

21
(1) For the purposes of this Act, the ranks of the officers and non-commissioned members of the Canadian Forces shall be as set out in the schedule.

Designation

(2) A person holding a rank set out in the schedule shall use, or be referred to by, a designation of rank prescribed in regulations made by the Governor in Council but only in the circumstances prescribed in those regulations.

  • R.S., 1985, c. N-5, s. 21; R.S., 1985, c. 31 (1st Supp.), s. 60; 2014, c. 20, s. 169
 

ModlrMike

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I can hear the lower deck lawyers now "that RDP is invalid because the used the wrong rank title".
 

Kat Stevens

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It has always fascinated me that when the C of C uses line, chapter, and verse to nail a lower lifeform to the wall, it's just good admin. When said lower life form uses the same passage from the good book to avoid said nailing, (s)he is some form of barracks/lower deck lawyer. Good research of QR&O and CANFORGENs saved my ass from two different summary convictions, and I heard the lawyer thing muttered by the RSM both times. I felt dirty. Free, but dirty. Then I had a beer and felt better.
 

ModlrMike

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Glad that things worked out for you, but so that you know, not my definition of lower deck lawyer. A valid defence is valid, regardless of who is presenting it. What I mean are those who think they know everything, but in reality know very little. Considering that I have two of those in my unit, I will be asking AJAG for guidance before I issue any RM or RDP on either of them.
 
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