NATO ISAF Medal

[KabulRat]

I'm going to conduct an experiment to see if I can make some heads at DHH explode....

After retiring from the CF in 2008, I took a job with NATO in Afghanistan.  I did 2 years there and was presented the NATO ISAF medal for 'time served'.

After re-enrolling in the CF in 2010, I was given the standard 'you can't receive another medal for the same service' (I did Afghan tours with the Forces in 2004-2005 and 2006-2007) and 'you can't receive a foreign decoration when a Canadian equivalent exists' speech from the Orderly Room when I asked if the decoration was authorized for wear. 

However...I wasn't in the Forces when presented the medal, and as I wasn't in the employ of the Canadian Civil Service or contracted with DND during my time overseas (I worked directly for NATO as a civilian employee), I'm not eligible from either the GSM or the OSM.

Under A-AD-200-000/AG-000 Chap 2, Sec 1, Para 34 -35...

"34. A member who was awarded an order, decoration or medal by a foreign power prior to enrolment may be granted approval to wear the insignia and ribbon while in uniform. To obtain approval the member shall submit a written request to the member's commanding officer (CO), accompanied by documentary proof of the award. The CO shall forward the request  with the original or photocopy of the documentary proof, through normal channels, to NDHQ/DHH.

35. If a member is granted authority to wear a foreign award, a copy of the authority shall be filed on the Unit Personnel Record and the NDHQ personal document file."

The real question ...is NATO considered a 'Foreign Power"?

I doubt this will be approved, but it's something to do...Meh...

 

[PuckChaser]

NATO is considered "foreign". Thats why we get the GCS-SWA instead of the NATO medal for trips to Afghanistan.

 

[KabulRat]

Mwahahaha...I'll start drafting a memo...this should be interesting... >

 

[Franko]

Put the memo up...I'd say you have a case.

It is a NATO medal (you never said specifically what it was) and you were NOT serving in the CF/ DND at the time; therefore you should be able to wear it.

Mind you I can hear the guys who got a Non-art 5 for doing their second tour in Kabul and not being able to wear it saying something.

Regards

 

[KabulRat]

Yeah...it's the 'don't accept under any circumstances' NATO Non-Article 5 ISAF medal...

Cheers

 

[Franko]

Yeah...it's the 'don't accept under any circumstances' NATO Non-Article 5 ISAF medal...

Cheers

It was still awarded when you were a civy.

It holds the same merit as a late Roto in Bosnia medal and it's not overlapping any military service medals like a GCS or SWASM when you were in uniform.

Put the memo up and the supporting references. I know of a few soldiers that have served in the British Forces and they are allowed to wear their medals.

What's the worse they can say.....No?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

It is going to some faceless bureaucrat in NDHQ\DHH. You'll likely get an answer in time to wear it on your Depart with Dignity parade ;D

 

[brihard]

You weren't at the time bound by any C.F. direction to not accept it, you weren't a member of the C.F., and you weren't working for the GoC. So ther'es no reason whatsoever for you to not be entitled to it.

At the same time, it's a medal issued for service to our military alliance, for a mission that our nation has subscribed to. There could be no real objection to wearing such a medal that would carry much weight.

The only think I could see preventing you from wearing this would be bureaucratic spite. It seems perfectly legitimate to me.

 

[AmmoTech90]

DH&R is who you want to talk to vice DHH.  You might want to inquire at Rideau Hall as well, acting as a private citizen.

However...

It is not listed in their pamphlet on order of precedence http://www.gg.ca/honours/pdf/wearing_e.pdf This means one of two things: a. it is outdated (2005 is date of the pub, was the NATO ISAF medal around then?) or Rideau Hall has decided that the NATO ISAF falls under foreign decorations and you have to go through the entire process.

and

The honour has to originate from a Head of State or a Government in order to be authorized.  I'm not sure if NATO counts as either.

Time frame for my approval was around a year from the memo being submitted on the foreign side to being Gazetted over here.

 

[vonGarvin]

DH&R is who you want to talk to vice DHH.  You might want to inquire at Rideau Hall as well, acting as a private citizen.

However...

It is not listed in their pamphlet on order of precedence http://www.gg.ca/honours/pdf/wearing_e.pdf This means one of two things: a. it is outdated (2005 is date of the pub, was the NATO ISAF medal around then?) or Rideau Hall has decided that the NATO ISAF falls under foreign decorations and you have to go through the entire process.

and

The honour has to originate from a Head of State or a Government in order to be authorized.  I'm not sure if NATO counts as either.

Time frame for my approval was around a year from the memo being submitted on the foreign side to being Gazetted over here.

As I recall, foreign decorations and medals are worn after all Canadian medals.  As well, the part about it having to originate from a Head of State doesn't apply, as he wasn't serving when he was awarded this medal. 

 

[Danjanou]

It is going to some faceless bureaucrat in NDHQ\DHH. You'll likely get an answer in time to wear it on your Depart with Dignity parade ;D

followed by some Associate member of the Royal Canadian Legion giving you grief over it when you show up at the Nov 11th parade as a civy again.  8)

Seriously sounds like legitimate reasoning, keep us posted on how this goes.

 

[KabulRat]

I'll let everyone know what happens...I have a few buddies who are in the same situation as I am ref/Civilian NATO service...

Cheers to all, and thanks...

 

[Pusser]

As I recall, foreign decorations and medals are worn after all Canadian medals.  As well, the part about it having to originate from a Head of State doesn't apply, as he wasn't serving when he was awarded this medal.

The bolded and underlined part is not correct.  The status of the individual receiving it or timing of the award is irrelevant.  In order for any order, decoration or medal to be worn in conjunction with Canadian orders, decorations or medals, it must originate from a Head of State.  For this purpose, medals issued by NATO and the UN generally qualify.

Under most circumstances, if NATO or the UN decide to issue a medal for an operation in which Canada participates, there is a process by which Canada decides to formally accept that medal into the Canadian Order of Precedence.  At that point, it is treated much the same as any Canadian medal.  However, as happened in this case, Canada decided to issue its own medal and, therefore, did not accept the NATO ISAF medal into the Order of Precedence.  This is not the same as saying that no CF member (or any Canadian for that matter) can ever wear it.  This being the situation, the NATO ISAF medal would be treated as a foreign medal.  It only makes sense in this case that the OP would have to apply for permission to wear it.  The fact that Canada has issued a medal for service under the same circumstances shouldn't matter as the OP is clearly not entitled to the Canadian medal.  He's not allowed both, but he should be allowed one.  This is not a unique situation and has happened often times before.  I know of one person who was on exchange with the British Army during the first Gulf War.  He wears the British Gulf War medal and not the Canadian one.  He does, however wear it at the end of his rack, after all Canadian ones.

The bottom line is, submit an application through the Chain of Command to DH&R and I would be very surprised if it was not approved.  It will, however, go to the end of your rack.  Be prepared to wait though.  From DH&R, it then has to go to the Chancellery of Honours and the Governor General for final approval.  This does take awhile.

On a final note, it is important to remember that all the orders, decorations and medals that we wear on our uniforms are part of the Canadian Honours System, which does not belong to the CF.  The rules for the wearing of orders, decorations and medals are the same for all Canadians and although the CF definitely provides advice to the Chancellery of Honours,  the CF is not the final authority on the subject, even for CF members.  Even after you leave the CF it is still against the rules to mount unapproved medals with your approved ones.

 

[vonGarvin]

Pusser
Seen.  I was thinking of some medal or decoration personally awarded by a president or monarch, as opposed to approved for issue by a president, monarch or whomever.