Muslim anger follows Pope's comments

[tamouh]

Canada stands for freedom of religious belief and practices, freedom of sexual expression, gender equality, freedom of association, against discriminatory treatment or taxation based on religious beliefs, separation of state from church and church from state, to name a few.  What exactly is the Islamic response to those ideas?

Is it reasonable to require of everyone who wishes to be Canadian that he renounce any practices which might militate against those Canadian ideals, except as he might wish to apply them against only himself?

And what part of any of my posts I've stood against these ideals ?

While I respect your right to defend your view of Islam, please don't bring my country into this and claim that you and those who agree with you are the ones building a better Canada. Everyone who is Canadian is responsible for building a better Canada, and just because you don't agree with their def intion of a better Canada doesn't make yours right.

True, and I sincerely respect that. You can't build a nation based on one idea alone. But there are logical limits for everything whether far-right or far-left. This is what I've been saying all along, we could have disagreements and different point of views, but we're all working for one thing and that is a better Canada.

Therefore, I'm sick of hearing ill-hearted people labelling me and others "pro-terrorists", "terrorist sympathizers", "french" or use the enfamous Bush slogan "you're with us or with the terrorist". Enough with this nonsense, there are many ways to solve terrorism. One of them (which have worked for many years in Europe and beyond) is better intelligence.

 

[cplcaldwell]

I find you tedious.

Go away.

 

[Kirkhill]

Tamouh - I don't want you changing my Canada.

Let me know when the Pope can set up a Cathedral beside the Blue Mosque, the Kaba, in Qom and in Karbala.  Then we can talk.

A Presbyterian.

By the way.  Here's the good news.  The more that you talk the more Christian I become.  And I haven't been inside a Church in years.

FOAD.

 

[1feral1]

I only scare those ignorant of their own beings and others surrounding them. Your views and many on the extreme right are as dangerous as the Muslim extremists themselves. I'm more than glad you're a very small minority of people with twisted look at the world.

I'm with many more who will continue to build Canada as a peaceful, balanced and welcoming home for many immigrants to come.

I've not preached any ideals, this is another twisted joke you and your fellow conspirators keep using. I preach what Canada did stand for and will continue standing for until people like yourself ruin it.

Your anti-Rights, anti-Freedom, anti-Islam, racist and nonequivalent self denial of the rights of others is the problem. Ironically, this is the same problem AQ and extremists have that you claim to fight.

p.s. Just because someone favors another method to deal with terrorism, doesn't mean he/she is pro-terrorist. It is only in your little brain washed way the alternative becomes the opposite.

Tamouh

You always seem to go the right wing route (shakes head). It does not wash pal. Getting Canadian citizenship is more than a piece of paper and the right to vote. Many including myself are here in this world of shyte created by YOU,  and its YOUR people with YOUR mentality we are fighting and killing.

If this war widens and spreads out, FACT, we will win.

Like I said, you'll never NEVER EVER be able to think like us. You've proved that too many times, and especially today.

Should you ever return to fight for your cause here in shyteland, come to Baghdad, there are plenty of US and coalition forces who'd put you in your place quicksmart!

BTW, love the fellow racist conspiritors thing (ha!).


Wes

 

[exsemjingo]

Let me know when the Pope can set up a Cathedral beside the Blue Mosque, the Kaba, in Qom and in Karbala.  Then we can talk.

A Presbyterian.

I don't think the Pope has broken any new ground with his speech.  All he has done is reminded Muslims that not everyone in the world agrees with them.  Many can live with this reality, but the protesters cannot.

It's a good these protesters do not read, or they might even target, say, Lutheran Churches on purpose and not by accident (like those non- Catholic ones in the West Bank...)

http://users.frii.com/gosplow/augsburg.html#augs-003


Our Churches, with common consent, do teach that the decree of the Council of Nicaea concerning the Unity of the Divine Essence and concerning the Three Persons, is true and to be believed without any doubting; that is to say, there is one Divine Essence which is called and which is God: eternal, without body, without parts, of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness, the Maker and Preserver of all things, visible and invisible; and yet there are three Persons, of the same essence and power, who also are coeternal, the Father the Son, and the Holy Ghost. And the term "person" they use as the Fathers have used it, to signify, not a part or quality in another, but that which subsists of itself.

They condemn all heresies which have sprung up against this article, as the Manichaeans, who assumed two principles, one Good and the other Evil- also the Valentinians, Arians, Eunomians, Mohammedans, and all such. They condemn also the Samosatenes, old and new, who, contending that there is but one Person, sophistically and impiously argue that the Word and the Holy Ghost are not distinct Persons, but that "Word" signifies a spoken word, and "Spirit" signifies motion created in things.

 

[armyvern]

Therefore, I'm sick of hearing ill-hearted people labelling me and others "pro-terrorists", "terrorist sympathizers", "french" or use the enfamous Bush slogan "you're with us or with the terrorist". Enough with this nonsense, there are many ways to solve terrorism. One of them (which have worked for many years in Europe and beyond) is better intelligence.

A better way to solve terrorism is to use intelligence (either of the IQ type or of the Mil int type)? And this is working in Europe? Tamouh, I am center, not left nor right leaning, but even I must now advise you to unbury your head from the sand.

How quickly you have forgotten Madrid, London, Jordan, Karachi, Bali, the Moscow Theatre and the Beslan School bombing amongst many other examples. Guess what? These places are world-wide...right here on our Canadian doorstep. Europe my a$$. Intelligence (of the IQ type or the mil int type) does nothing to solve bombings. Difference between Europe and us at this point, is that is us who are in there fighting these terrorists as they (in some cases) sit at home hoping we'll solve their problems for them.

Very smart people do very stupid things all the time. IQ intelligence certainly does not solve terrorism.

However Military/strategic intelligence does have it's purpose... it simply allows us to prevent attacks if we manage to compile enough info on an upcoming terrorist attack beforehand...such as was recently done here in Canada and London.

Intelligence allows us to to lock our weapons sights onto the terrorist target either in a pre-emptive manner or after the fact, and that solves that little problem.

 

[LeonTheNeon]

The problem with trying to rely on intelligence is that intelligence is: a) never complete and generally obsoleted by taking action* and b) always secondary to action.

Intelligence can give planners clear vision but that is the extent of its power.  As John Keegan puts it in his book Intelligence in War

War is about doing, not thinking

There are very few opportunities to intellectualize war.  Ultimately, battles are won or lost by the actions taken by the troops in the conflict.  Take for example Crete in WW2.  Despite having a nearly complete picture of the Axis attack, the Allies lost the battle because they didn't take the proper actions and the Axis forces fought with great courage and tenacity.  In Pearl Harbor, despite a seeming lack of intelligence on Japanese intentions**, damage was greatly reduced in areas which responded promptly and got their defenses online.  In fact, the prompt reaction of the few combat air patrols and the few AAA probably prevented a third strike from the Japanese which would have almost certainly eliminated the US Pacific strategic oil reserve and dealt a much more devastating blow.

The intellect to recognize the threat for what it is and the will to strike, which is hopefully guided by good intelligence is what will stop terrorism.  Intelligence without action is useless.

Also, do not discount the inability of intelligence forces to provide a complete picture.  It is absolutely impossible for "better intelligence" to protect us.  There will be holes, there will be gaps and they will be exploited by our enemies... but perhaps not if we destroy them first, or keep the pressure up high enough that they cannot act.  We need to keep them pinned and on the run as best as we can.

* - I hate to post something so vague, but what I mean by this is that once you taken action based on any intelligence your opponent will ,generally speaking, unless completely surprised will make a counter-move.  This begins to unravel the picture provided by your intelligence and requires a new picture to be drawn.

** - Yes, I realize this is not so clear cut.  There were many indicators and generally speaking a war in the Pacific was considered more of a when and where not an if.

 

[George Wallace]

* - I hate to post something so vague, but what I mean by this is that once you taken action based on any intelligence your opponent will ,generally speaking, unless completely surprised will make a counter-move.  This begins to unravel the picture provided by your intelligence and requires a new picture to be drawn.

** - Yes, I realize this is not so clear cut.  There were many indicators and generally speaking a war in the Pacific was considered more of a when and where not an if.

It may have been a lot clearer, had you not been bouncing back and forth off of all the "walls".  ;D

 

[aluc]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1158702614845&call_pageid=970599119419


Response to Pope shows hypocrisy
Sep. 20, 2006. 01:00 AM
ROSIE DIMANNO

The Pope better eat his words or there'll be hell to pay.

To refute the allegation and revenge the purported offence — linking the Prophet Muhammad to violence by quoting an obscure 14th-century Byzantine emperor — some righteous Muslims will ... get violent.

More than a few already have, in attacks against at least seven churches in the West Bank and — though a direct link has not been confirmed — the shooting of a missionary nun in Somalia, slain outside the hospital where she worked only hours after a Somali cleric condemned the Pope's speech.

Al Qaeda in Iraq is vowing war on "worshippers of the cross,"......


go to link for more.....

 

[silentbutdeadly]

Sounds like the Pope's words were not so far fetched. Sad really!

 

[Haggis]

SBD:  true!

Actions DO speak louder than words, even those in the 14th century.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>And what part of any of my posts I've stood against these ideals ?

I note you didn't bother to directly answer either question.  Is there a reason you are being evasive other than dishonesty or ignorance?

 

[apostle]

As a Catholic I have this to say to decoy and all the others who have a problem with the Catholic Church.  While the Church committed more than its fair share of atrocities in the past at least it has moved on and admitted that using force to convert people or impose one's religion on them was and is wrong.  Muslims on the other hand still refuse to let go of a medieval mentality that says "Convert to Islam or else".  Oh and by the way shooting a 66 year old nun in the back is such an appropriate way to protest against a quote about violence and Islam.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

>And what part of any of my posts I've stood against these ideals ?

I note you didn't bother to directly answer either question.  Is there a reason you are being evasive other than dishonesty or ignorance?

C'mon Brad! That's his modus operandi! It's his favourite ploy, and never mind not direrctly answer it, most times he ignores the hard questions that will defeat his point of view. The forums are riddled with unanswered requests for him to respond. All ignored by him.

 

[Too Poor II]

There is no doubt that Pope Benedict XVI might have found a better example to use in his speech on Sept. 12, that has caused such a stir among Muslims. The controversial statement, quoting the Byzantine Emperor Manuel Paleologus, was: “Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”
Radical Muslims in numerous countries were so upset that the prophet and Islam were impugned as being violent that they promptly decided to make their displeasure known by responding with violence. Violent street protests have been seen in many countries and churches [have been] attacked.
It’s an unfortunate historical fact that Islam was, in part, founded with violence. Muhammad was a military and political leader as well as a religious leader. Whether it was in fighting with the forces of Meccan polytheists, raiding caravans or beheading 600 or so Jews in Yathrib (Medina) in the year A.D. 627, violence has been associated with Muhammad and the spread of Islam.
Right now, the face of Islam that most Westerners are seeing is violent street protests, attacks on churches and people, the beheading of people like Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl just to name the only 2 that I can think of right now. Is Islam being hijacked or is this Islam?
I am convinced that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, and every time that something happens, they are left on the sidelines wondering how they are going to be publicly scrutinized (Profiled). This silent majority needs to quickly and loudly speak up and demonstrate that they are mainstream Islam, and not the radicals who attacked five Christian churches in Palestine, violently protested, and killed a nun in what reportedly might be a response to the pope’s words.

 

[Clarkey]

Quite a satirical look at this situation.

This guy cracks me up everytime.
http://jaypinkerton.cracked.com/2006/09/islam_violent_well_kill_you_fo.php

Enjoy,
Clarkey

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

I think these two cartoons sadly say it all:

 

[DBA]

Cox and Forkum are allways good for cartoons like that as well.

 

[twistidnick]

Why do Muslims care what an infidel like the pope had to say about them?

Also why do we put up with these Zionist burning churches and killing a nun? This hypocrisy is hurting my head.

 

[time expired]

What ?
        Zionist ?????
No wonder your head hurts.
                Regards