Muslim anger follows Pope's comments

[aluc]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1158313811049&call_pageid=1144159007037



Muslim anger follows Pope's comments
In unanimous vote, Pakistan's parliament demands apology
Sep. 15, 2006. 12:17 PM
REUTERS

CAIRO — Muslims deplored today remarks on Islam by Pope Benedict, and many of them said the Catholic leader should apologise in person to dispel the impression that he had joined a campaign against their religion.....

see link above for more .....

The Pope on Tuesday repeated criticism of the Prophet Mohammad by the 14th century Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus, who said everything Mohammad brought was evil "such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached".

The Pope, who used the terms "jihad" and "holy war" in his lecture, added "violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul".

These critics are hypocrates.....what he said seems to make sense....is this not what is going on today in the world?  You know....I really don't see what the upraor is all about, I guess the truth must hurt.  Que  the mass protests, complete with the beating chests, derogatory placards against the west and Christianity ,  disciminatory chanting, firing gunshots in the air....we all know the drill.  The seemingly growing support for Jihad  in muslim nations around the globe kind of prove his case for him, doesn't it?  Islam may not be about violence and jihad, however, do we see any mass protests, any statements from the multitude of Muslim/Arab groups really denouncing this behaviour......  And I'm not agreeing with him because I'm "catholic". I've distanced myself from the Church years ago. 




Also....

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1158313812313&call_pageid=1144159007037
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1158313810984&call_pageid=1144159007037

 

[George Wallace]

Are they paranoid or feeling the 'guilt' in identifying with the statement: "violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul"?

 

[Taylor187]

Taken from the T-Star article:

In his speech, the Pope appeared to endorse a Christian view, contested by most Muslims, that the early Muslims spread their religion by violence.

Is that not what they do now? Kidnap people and force them to convert at gun point? So they are protesting that the Pope forgot to mention that that's how they go about spreading Islam now too, but at gun point instead of the tip of a sword?

I'm not a religious person at all, but I hope the Pope sticks to his guns and tells the world to stick it where the sun dont shine. He read a quote from a Byzantine Emperor, not dictated his thoughts on the religion.

My two cents.

 

[Kalatzi]

It'll be interesting to see which of their "Religious" and/or political leaders, support the pope's position, if any of them do

 

[HItorMiss]

Point being - the Pope has no moral high ground; no religious instuition does...these are just the words of a frail old man heading up a backward and outdated organization.

Regardless of your point, the fact is he is right about Mohammed's message of spreading the religion at sword point and all the rest, you can call the Church Hypocritical and the Pope and old man but it doesn't make him or his statements any less accurate of factual.

 

[paracowboy]

The Muslim world, and indeed, the whole world, shouldn't be giving credence to the hypocritical words of the Catholic church,

but it does. So there!

who have killied, maimed and murdered more people than any religious institution...

uhhh, the Catholic Church IS a religious institution

and don't forget the child molestation...

which is unlike the child molestation found throughout the Islamic world? Thursdays are a bad time to be a boy-child in Afghanistan.

these are just the words of a frail old man

Sexism and age-ism? Shame, shame, shame. There's nothing wrong with being a frail old man. I hope to be one myself, someday.

heading up a backward and outdated organization.

and contesting another backward and outdated loosely-affiliated, highly dis-organized organization.

However anyone feels about the Catholic Church, the facts remain that the Muslim faith propagated itself via fire and the sword. I'd like to see if his speech mentioned the Catholic Church propagating ITSELF through the same means, however. Just for shits and giggles.

All told: meh.

edited: typo

 

[George Wallace]

The Muslim world, and indeed, the whole world, shouldn't be giving credence to the hypocritical words of the Catholic church, who have killied, maimed and murdered more people than any religious institution...and don't forget the child molestation...

Seems someone is bitter and twisted and mixed up on their facts.  Yes the Catholic Church has done many of those things, but much of what it did is ancient history.  I would not be so defeatist, Anti-West or such an 'Apologist' as to state that the Catholic Church "killed, maimed and murdered more people than any religious institution" when all religions seem to hold equal credit in that category, and some like Islam seem to be, in fact actually are, still conducting those practices against their 'enemies'.

Point being - the Pope has no moral high ground; no religious instuition does...these are just the words of a frail old man heading up a backward and outdated organization.

If the Pope isn't permitted the moral high ground, who are you to do so?  Not being a RC, I find it fascinating how many turn into fanatics when religion becomes a topic, even those who claim to not hold any religious beliefs.

 

[JackD]

ohh don't worry, some obscure cartoonist will soon do another cartoon series and then it will be fury, chanting etc towards cartoonists again - or maybe someone will write some rather boring, high-faluting novel and then there will be fury, chanting etc towards novelists -or someone will build a school, or... ad infinatum...

 

[foo32]

I read the transcript of the Pope's speech.  I admit it is hard to deduce what point he is trying to make, since he tends not to say anything straight out. However, I'm reasonably sure he was trying persuade his audience (and perhaps a broader audience of Muslims) that violence was incompatible with faith and God.  Whatever... Being a public and influential figure he should have known better than to make even a single statement easily taken out of context -- especially concerning Islam in light of world politics.

Still, you would have to be brain-dead to miss the irony that any implication that Islam has a problem with intolerance and violence almost immediately sparks cries for murderous retribution, and that far too many of the intellectual leaders of Islamic societies quickly resort to disingenuous, dishonest, and sometimes inflammatory public statements at any opportunity. Until these societies grow up, it is hard to see how Western countries can amicably coexist with them. With events like this becoming more common, I find it rather worrying that Pakistan (for example) is just a coup away from being a nuclear-armed fanatical Islamic state.

 

[orange.paint]

Knights of Columbus.(Terrorist)
Although not a issue now during my Gradfathers day in Newfoundland there was much secular violence between protestant and Catholics.
I wouldn't say it was THAT long ago.

Maybe its a plot to get people back to the church through hate of Muslims.And now during these times we live in it just may work.

 

[Trinity]

Paracowboy - I'm not disagreeing with you at all!

well

then pick a side.. because para doesn't quite agree with you.

 

[paracowboy]

because para doesn't quite agree with you.

let's face it, I don't quite agree with anyone. In any sense of the phrase.

 

[George Wallace]

Knights of Columbus.(Terrorist)
Although not a issue now during my Gradfathers day in Newfoundland there was much secular violence between protestant and Catholics.
I wouldn't say it was THAT long ago.

I could say the same thing about PEI thirty or forty years ago too.......but they were not killing people in order to convert them to Catholism like they did during the Spanish Inquisition.  Heck.....there is still sectarian violence in Ireland......but again it is not to convert one religion to another with penalty of death if you don't comply.

 

[Remius]

I think decoys's point was that the Catholic Church, and its figure head are not the most credible people to be lecturing the world on what's right or wrong.

Pope Benedict may be right but his credibility doesen't lend well to getting the message out.

 

[George Wallace]

So what you are saying is "the Sins of the Father's Father's Father" will also be the "Sins of the 'Son'!" ?

 

[Remius]

So what you are saying is "the Sins of the Father's Father's Father" will also be the "Sins of the 'Son'!" ?

Nope. Didn't say that.

 

[2 Cdo]

Wow, the "muslim world" is upset when someone points out their faults! :
Decoy don't let your anti-RC feelings colour your opinion. : I personally give far more creedence to his opinion then the Muslims who seem to "perpetually angry" about anything and everything.

 

[GAP]

So what you are saying is "the Sins of the Father's Father's Father" will also be the "Sins of the 'Son'!" ?

That kinda fits right in with Islam and the whole tribal thing too.

Rather than this thread degenerate into This Religion/That Religion thingy...

I don't honestly think there is an organized religion out there that has not "converted souls" in one hideous way or another. The mock anger is more about territorial credibility than it is about the sins of anybody.

my 1 cent...I need the other

 

[paracowboy]

I don't honestly think there is an organized religion out there that has not "converted souls" in one hideous way or another.

to the best of my knowledge, Buddhism has never forcibly converted anyone. If anyone (and I've offered this before with no takers) knows of any instances otherwise, I'd be interested to hear of them.

The mock anger is more about territorial credibility than it is about the sins of anybody.

yup

I give the Roman Catholic Church and The Islamic fundamentalists equal suspicion and distrust.

yup

 

[Nemo888]

The Pope's point was about scriptural passages promoting violence in conversion of non Muslims. In the Koran you have to ask three times to convert someone to Islam, after which if they refuse you must kill them. You must also kill them if you think the conversion was not sincere. You must also kill apostate (lapsed or fallen) Muslims. There have been brief periods in history where Islam has been reasonable and tolerant, like the Mughal period during Akbar and Shah Jahan, but there is always a hard liner like Aurangzeb who uses the Koran to whip up support for old school war and murder under the guise of religion. The Koran is much easier to use for these purposes because Mohammed was not a prince of peace but the General of an army who put his religion in place by the sword. Makes the whole peace and love thing ring a little hollow. Unlike Christians, Muslims can be as warlike as they want and not be the least bit hypocritical.

I can understand why they want it both ways, all the cool kids have peaceful saintly saviors. Hard to put halo's on a tribal horde laying siege to a city and plundering it, even if it is for God.

My demented 2 cents,...