Muslim anger follows Pope's comments

[IN HOC SIGNO]

I guess those three years I lived in a Buddhist Monastery were just a dream,...
But too quote my new favourite blowhard, "and let's get a few people who know what they are talking about."

And I have a new nominee for most ironic public statement of the year:
"Anyone who describes Islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence," Pakistan Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam said.  ;D

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060915/pakistan_pope_060915/20060915?hub=CTVNewsAt11

You need to check your definitions there pal....good to know that i'm your favorite something thanks for that.
Take note please that just because we're all somewhat anonymous on here doesnt give you the licence to be rude. Calling each other names is usually not how we conduct business on here.

I didn't say, to answer someone else that Christianity is the only truth,. I said that Western society was formulated from the Judeo/Christian philosophy and religion....and that much of that freedom you enjoy in this society, including the rule of law that guarantees you the right to insult me and others who practice a living faith (not an ancient superstition) is due to that faith background.

 

[tamouh]

If the Pope intention was to provide a historical quote supporting his message that Faith doesn't require violence, then he had chosen the most inappropriate quote available in history books. Manuel II have had his shares of alliances and wars with the Ottomans, and his views reflect an era when Ottoman empire was a clear threat to what had left of Manuel's Byzantine empire. This quote is as controversial as someone claiming that Moses or Jesus brought nothing new to humanity.

The Pope choice of quote, timing and in general his view on the incident doesn't serve well the current "War on Terrorism"

The Muslim reaction is also disproportionate but anticipated especially when extreme elements use these instances to enflame already oppressed people who believe the current US led war on Taliban, Al-Qaeda, Iraq and Terrorism is mere extension to the old crusades against Islam.

"The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war," the Pope said. "He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.'"

The pontiff quoted Manuel's argument that spreading the faith through violence is unreasonable, adding: "Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul."

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/09/16/pope.html

 

[Kat Stevens]

Muslims around the world are protesting, saying that the Popes apology is not enough.  Apparently, nothing but a full retraction will do.  So, in other words, if the Pope doesn't take back a comment linking radical Islam to violence, they are going to riot and kill Christians (AQ says it will "declare war").  Am I alone in seeing the stupidity irony in this?  :

 

[silentbutdeadly]

Its really kinda funny! He He

 

[tamouh]

So, in other words, if the Pope doesn't take back a comment linking radical Islam to violence, they are going to riot and kill

I don't think anyone is upset over linking radical Islam to violence, but rather that one quote linking Muhammad the prophet of Islam to Evil!

Though the Pope has distant himself from the quote saying it doesn't represent his view, one can help but wonder why would he use such a quote if its content is meaningless. It is like Iran's president quoting Khomeini on the Jews and Israel then saying these quotes don't necessarily represent his views!

 

[Kat Stevens]

I don't think anyone is upset over linking radical Islam to violence, but rather that one quote linking Muhammad the prophet of Islam to Evil!

Though the Pope has distant himself from the quote saying it doesn't represent his view, one can help but wonder why would he use such a quote if its content is meaningless. It is like Iran's president quoting Khomeini on the Jews and Israel then saying these quotes don't necessarily represent his views!

Difference being that Jews around the world wouldn't take to the streets threatening violence.  They would just call him a nutjob and get on with their lives.  When in the flippin' flyin' phak are you going to wake up?  He called them violent because they are, well... violent is as good a word as any.  I'm fed right up to my tits with your staunch defence of these assfuks.

 

[aesop081]

Difference being that Jews around the world wouldn't take to the streets threatening violence.  They would just call him a nutjob and get on with their lives.  When in the flippin' flyin' phak are you going to wake up?  He called them violent because they are, well... violent is as good a word as any.  I'm fed right up to my tits with your staunch defence of these assfuks.

join the club !!

 

[vonGarvin]

Why is the Pope being chastised for words when others are burning and destroying stuff because they were told that they are violent?
???

 

[paracowboy]

"How dare you all us violent! Just for that, I'm going to burn down two churches and murder a nun! That'll teach you to call us violent!"

MO-rons! Hey, wait...Murdering, moronic, Muslims might maim and mutilate many more munchkins unless mollified!

 

[aluc]

How dare you all us violent! Just for that, I'm going to burn down two churches and murder a nun! That'll teach you to call us violent!"

All I can say is that this whole situation is deliciously ironic! Hmmm...time for lunch.

 

[1feral1]

I don't think anyone is upset over linking radical Islam to violence, but rather that one quote linking Muhammad the prophet of Islam to Evil!

mini rant on

Either way there has now been people killed over this nonsense. Thats wrong and thats from a peaceful religion? Yes, and look what happened over a cartoon! A ratbag Indonesian islamic cleric (Bashir) is now say the CIA was responsible for the Bali bombings of 2002. Nutcases!!! Look whats going on here, a peaceful religion at war with itself! I say let them go at it, and when its all over, don't come crying to the west for assistance unless they are requesting a big glass K-Mart parking lot!

Get over it! All this crap that happened centuries ago, who really cares. I have a gutful of it all. I dont give a fat rats arse what happened in 1400, its about now the present and future. If nothing can become if it, we're in for a long haul.

Time to get on with the times, and have the balls to do it, but knowing the ever growing hatred of the west, by this islamic extremism (and thats being taught in our own countries right now) its only going to get worse before it gets better.

Wes

 

[a_majoor]

Some commentary from Chaos Manor: A reader writes in and Jerry's reply is in italics

http://www.jerrypournelle.com/view/view431.html#Thursday

Subject: Fearful symmetry, 

Jerry

What strikes me is this: all these imams get up and call for the destruction of Western civilization and death to Jews, we're supposed to - and do - accept that with equanimity.

But when the Pope quotes a beleaguered Byzantine emperor who was under military assault by Moslems, there are demonstrations in the Middle East. And the Pope is "upset" that Moslems would be offended.

No negative comments on Moslems to be allowed? At all?

Of course not. And to show how peaceful and civilized they all were, they went out and burned down four Christian churches.  If the people of the US burned a mosque we would have years of sensitivity training, our children would have one and only one subject in school, guilt, advanced guilt, more guilt. We are no good. They are all good. What is it you do not understand about that? You need sensitivity training.

Do you not know that Western Civilization is the source of all the ills of the world, and anyone who would defend a horror like that is a monster who needs to be punished until he understands? Sensitivity training. That will do the trick.

 

[Brad Sallows]

If you wish to troll through the past twenty centuries to find examples of excess in the name of Christian religions, you can easily find some.  You will of course have to include that awkward point at which the Catholic church reconciled itself to the importance of Reason.  Also, you shouldn't discount the values of the people at any point in time toward human life instead of pinning blame wholly on a church.  I'm not sure why the beliefs and attitudes and acts of people dead for hundreds of years should be a stick to beat the churches and their followers of today, but perhaps that's a special sort of understanding that requires a special sort of brain chemistry.  Meanwhile, the question isn't what Islam did yesterday; the question is what Islam is doing today.  The problem is that Islam is an expression of a cultural snapshot in time and space which is in principle inalterable according to its own tightly written scripture, as though the whole world should aspire to mimic seventh century Arabia.

The Pope is the mortal leader of the Catholic church.  It isn't in his job description to reinterpret the religion to suit the tastes of any particular faction of modernized westerners.  To the extent that anyone disagrees with him, by definition they will have to look to themselves to understand why they have fallen away from their faith.

 

[the 48th regulator]

infidels.

The lot of them, First it is 

now it is Benedict XVI.

What next....

dileas

tess

 

[tamouh]

mini rant on

If you read the posts above you'll know why I've replied with a clarification because it seems some people want to convince the rest of us that this whole incident because the Pope addressed violence in "radical Islam" , yet the truth of the matter is the whole incident revolves around the Pope quoting Manuel II who linked the Prophet of Islam to Evil. There is a big difference between saying Al-Qaeda and Taliban are violent organizations, and labelling Islam and Muslims as Evil doers.

I also said above my disagreement and disappoint of the way Muslims have reacted in a barbarian way to say the least!

Get over it! All this crap that happened centuries ago, who really cares. I have a gutful of it all. I dont give a fat rats arse what happened in 1400, its about now the present and future. If nothing can become if it, we're in for a long haul.

Time to get on with the times, and have the balls to do it, but knowing the ever growing hatred of the west, by this islamic extremism (and thats being taught in our own countries right now) its only going to get worse before it gets better.

Agree, the problem with many Arab and Muslim countries that they continue to live in the past and point fingers at the West! Something that must be changed if the Arabs are ever to move forward and become in-line with the rest of civilization.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Tamouh,

True or false: "The terrorists of today are more closely following the example set by Muhammed than the secularist and pacificist muslims."

He waged war on everyone around him.
He converted people by the sword or killed "non-believers" with no mercy.
He used horrible violence and terror to acheive his ends.
He used dishonesty and outright lies to mislead and gain advantage against his more trusting enemies, especially the principle of 'hudna' (truce).



Matthew.  ???

 

[tamouh]

Tamouh,

True or false: "The terrorists of today are more closely following the example set by Muhammed than the secularist and pacificist muslims."

False.

He waged war on everyone around him.

False

He converted people by the sword or killed "non-believers" with no mercy.

False

He used horrible violence and terror to acheive his ends.

False

He used dishonesty and outright lies to mislead and gain advantage against his more trusting enemies, especially the principle of 'hudna' (truce).

False

Matthew.   ??? 

You need to grab couple of good books and read up on early Islam.

Tamouh.

 

[tomahawk6]

The Pope finally has realized the threat that radical islam represents to the Church and to all who love their freedom.

 

[paracowboy]

True or false: "The terrorists of today are more closely following the example set by Muhammed than the secularist and pacificist muslims."

He waged war on everyone around him.
He converted people by the sword or killed "non-believers" with no mercy.
He used horrible violence and terror to acheive his ends.
He used dishonesty and outright lies to mislead and gain advantage against his more trusting enemies, especially the principle of 'hudna' (truce).

all true.

False

False

False

False

all revisionism.

You need to grab couple of good books and read up on early Islam.

trust me, I have.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Tamouh,

I've read 2-english translations of the Quran and the Hadiths....as well as about 200 hours of other interpretative analysis.

Bottom Line:  If you're willing to lie like you just did with a straight face, you're definitely part of the problem.



Matthew.