Modest Proposal from an Immodest Source - MLI

[Stoker]

I yield to the man with experience.... No worries here if you think the reserves can maintain a stable manning level.

And I take your point on the Coast Guard vis a vis an armed service.  I guess I was reckoning that much of the patrol work does NOT require armed intervention beyond a small arms equipped team (perhaps with a helicopter in overwatch - manned or unmanned).  That would mean that an RCN or RCMP team could launch from a Coast Guard platform without putting an unarmed platform at risk.  With a common platform and the STANFLEX model then unarmed Coast Guard patrol ships (with a leavening of RCN manned armed vessels) could be armed and manned by RCN reservists if the threat level increased.

As an aside -

On the Look Cool front, and outside the box, there is this 2010 concept from DCNS - a 3000 ton - submersible frigate with a crew of 27.

39 knot transit speed on the surface and divable with AIP

http://en.dcnsgroup.com/innovation-technology/smx-25/
http://www.meretmarine.com/fr/content/smx-25-dcns-devoile-son-concept-de-sous-marin-de-surface
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMX-25

Large ship, small crew, rapid transit for long coast lines and stealth...... Of course there are drawbacks: the source for one. ;D

Pretty Slick. I would love to see something like the Armidale Class patrol ships, compliment of about 25 pers, manning with something like that wouldn't be a problem. I do understand the point of a RCN boarding team to deploy from a Coast Guard ship, sort of like taking Coast Guard boarding teams on the KINGSTON Class during OP Caribbe.

 

[dimsum]

Pretty Slick. I would love to see something like the Armidale Class patrol ships, compliment of about 25 pers, manning with something like that wouldn't be a problem. I do understand the point of a RCN boarding team to deploy from a Coast Guard ship, sort of like taking Coast Guard boarding teams on the KINGSTON Class during OP Caribbe.

Back in 2004 or so, when doing a GLD we passed by the Irish Ship LE Niamh, a Roisin-class OPV who was doing some sort of goodwill tour to Toronto, etc.  With the same (or similar) crew, it was like what an MCDV could (or should) have become.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%89_Niamh_(P52)

The Armidales are pretty nice as well, and their home ports of Cairns and Darwin aren't too bad.  Nothing like Fleet Base East (Sydney) and West (Perth) though; the RAN has a good stranglehold on desirable properties in Australia 

 

[Stoker]

Back in 2004 or so, when doing a GLD we passed by the Irish Ship LE Niamh, a Roisin-class OPV who was doing some sort of goodwill tour to Toronto, etc.  With the same (or similar) crew, it was like what an MCDV could (or should) have become.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%89_Niamh_(P52)

The Armidales are pretty nice as well, and their home ports of Cairns and Darwin aren't too bad.  Nothing like Fleet Base East (Sydney) and West (Perth) though; the RAN has a good stranglehold on desirable properties in Australia 

I was on that trip, lovely ship. She was in Quebec city for the Naval Gathering a few years ago and had a pretty good tour. I started in the Engine room and ended up in the mess drinking Jamesons from a full pint glass.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Super modern and James Bond capable surface craft are not required to run successful amphibious operations.

The war in the Falkland Islands was won with the humble RO-RO (Roll On, Roll Off) ferry e.g.,: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Norland

Also, on three deployments to arctic Norway we traveled, and deployed into major exercises, courtesy of the ships from:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DFDS_Seaways

All supported by a cracker jack surface/ sub-surface deep water naval fleet, with adequate air cover, of course.  :nod:

 

[Kirkhill]

Super modern and James Bond capable surface craft are not required to run successful amphibious operations.

The war in the Falkland Islands was won with the humble RO-RO (Roll On, Roll Off) ferry e.g.,: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Norland

Also, on three deployments to arctic Norway we traveled, and deployed into major exercises, courtesy of the ships from:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DFDS_Seaways

All supported by a cracker jack surface/ sub-surface deep water naval fleet, with adequate air cover, of course.  :nod:

Point taken on the JBCSC (Acronym of the Day) - but they do look cool and they do a lot of stuff with out using up a lot of sailors.

But if we take a step back from the JBCSC and look at the near-time horizon and our peers, we see a tendency to put ships in the water that can carry packets of troops (or extra sailors) when and as the situation requires.  Given that tendency it leaves open the question as to whether a BHS is required or whether or not a flotilla of Absalon "Frigates" (70 PAX std, 300 PAX overload) can achieve the same effect.    If heavy gear is required then, as you suggest, a simple RoRo or 3 would suffice.

It seems to my landlubbers eye that a number of small ships has benefits over a single large ship.  Something to do with Surprise, Concentration of Forces (on the objective) and Economy of Effort perhaps.  Maybe some Mutual Support with a bit of Redundancy thrown in for good measure.

Rather than ships being the pieces of the puzzle, I want them to be the board.  I don't want them to be Knights or Bishops.  I want them to be the black and white squares which permit the Knights and Bishops and Pawns to be moved wherever the King  requires.  The board can be set up anywhere, at any time, and can constantly change in shape.  It permits the Land Forces to manoeuvre by air (helo) to any unprotected area and establish a bridgehead that can be reinforced over time and held, forcing the "other guy" to come to us.

And I know it isn't a game......

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Tugs on this coast are run with 2-5 man crews. Same with Fishing boats. Patrol craft would need be speedy but sea kindly, always a tough balance. Use a lot of modern materials to keep maintenance from being an issue. Please, please arm them. Design them to be able to be fitted with fairly fancy guns and small ship to ship missiles (Hellfires perhaps?) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYXBvCrzbHo

But fit them for now with something like the 35mm chain gun or 20mm and .50cal. run them with a mix of Reg and reservist crew. If a few of the projects destined for Prince Rupert move ahead, open a reservist station at Seal Cove, contract Coast Guard to provide support services. A patrol vessel could be stationed there in the summer and patrol that portion of the coast and Haida Gwaii. Since we have a territory dispute up there anyways a good way to show we still believe it's our waters.

 

[a_majoor]

DARPA wants to give the USN robotic help to maintain cntrol of the seas with ever fewer ships (we have certainly come a long way from President Reagan's "600 ship navy"). Since we have a similar issue with declining resources compared to our current and possible future tasks, this may well be an approach for our Navy to look at as well:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/09/hydra-darpa/

DARPA’s Plan to Flood the Sea With Drones, Carrying More Drones
BY ALLEN MCDUFFEE09.13.136:30 AM

DARPA, the Pentagon’s research agency, has recently revealed its plans to boost the Navy’s response to threats in international waters by developing submerged unmanned platforms that can be deployed at a moment’s notice.

Hydra, named after the serpent-like creature with many heads in Greek mythology, would create an undersea network of unmanned payloads and platforms to increase the capability and speed the response to threats like piracy, the rising number of ungoverned states, and sophisticated defenses at a time when the Pentagon is forced to make budget cuts. According to DARPA, the Hydra system ”represents a cost effective way to add undersea capacity that can be tailored to support each mission” that would still allow the Navy to conduct special operations and contingency missions. In other words, the decreasing number of naval vessels can only be in one place at a time.

“The climate of budget austerity runs up against an uncertain security environment that includes natural disasters, piracy, ungoverned states, and the proliferation of sophisticated defense technologies,” said Scott Littlefield, DARPA program manager, in a statement. “An unmanned technology infrastructure staged below the oceans’ surface could relieve some of that resource strain and expand military capabilities in this increasingly challenging space.”

The Hydra system is intended to be delivered in international waters by ships, submarines or aircraft with the integrative capability of communicating with manned and unmanned platforms for air, surface, and water operations.

Unlike the Upward Falling Payloads (UFPs) program DARPA announced in January that would submerge massive waterproof containers intended to store weapons, drones and supplies for years at a time, Hydra is a highly mobile platform that can be deployed for a few weeks or months in relatively shallow international waters.

“By separating capabilities from the platforms that deliver them, Hydra would enable naval forces to deliver those capabilities much faster and more cost-effectively wherever needed,” said Littlefield. “It is envisioned to work across air, underwater, and surface operations, enabling all three to perform their missions better.”

Proposals are due October 22, but it may well 2018 before Hydra lands in the ocean.

 

[jollyjacktar]

I can see the allure of this.  Drones/robots don't need pensions, salary, vacation, benefits of any sort.  Don't sleep, eat or get tired.  Won't have a fit of conscience and rat you out to Wikkileaks. Perfect.
Next step, "Skynet".

 

[UnwiseCritic]

1984 is taking awhile to get here...