Mess Kits

[ballz]

None of the units I have served in since commissionning have enforced this.

Wow... It's definitely being enforced in The RCR. See my post above Re: DCO bullying all officers into buying swords.

One of our newest officers didn't have mess kit like 3 months after graduating Ph4 and we all got an email quoting the QR&O and an updated copy of the Base Duty Officer list :whiteflag:

 

[dimsum]

I've always wondered why officers had to pay for mess dress within 6 months of commissioning as per the regs.  Why not 6 months of finishing formal training (ex. OTU for aircrew)? 

A perfect example would be a 2LT Pilot having to buy RCAF mess dress before earning their wings.  There is a decent chance that s/he would wash out and potentially be transferred to another element, in which case the $1000 or so is wasted. 

 

[Navy_Pete]

I don't think I've ever seen it enforced per say, but I think if you turned up at a navy mess dinner in your DEUs as a Lt(N) you'd probably get called out for an explanation.  Not as big a deal for SLts and below as they generally aren't trade qualified.

Is awesome to go to an RN event though; the gold stripe on our pants is for their Capt(N) and above.  Pretty hilarious to bump into a seniour officer and have them go off muttering about colonials.  Also, they had bumper cars and laser tag at a summer ball, why can't we do stuff like that?

 

[dimsum]

Also, they had bumper cars and laser tag at a summer ball, why can't we do stuff like that?

The Aussie Spring and Autumn Balls I've been to had bumper cars, sumo suits and bouncy castles as a minimum.  Always hilarious to see a bunch of officers (and their dates) dressed up and jumping like 5-year olds.  ;D

 

[ballz]

I've always wondered why officers had to pay for mess dress within 6 months of commissioning as per the regs.  Why not 6 months of finishing formal training (ex. OTU for aircrew)? 

A perfect example would be a 2LT Pilot having to buy RCAF mess dress before earning their wings.  There is a decent chance that s/he would wash out and potentially be transferred to another element, in which case the $1000 or so is wasted.

Totally hear ya. It's not even possible for a DEO Infantry Officer to finish his trades training and actually know what Regiment he is going to (each Regiment has different mess kit) within 6 months of being commissioned, so how the hell can he order his mess kit within 6 months of his commissioning? Not the first time the regs aren't up to date. I was surprised to see the guy get hammered for not having mess kit within 3 months but, well, I guess you'd have to know our DCO haha

 

[Melbatoast]

I've always wondered why officers had to pay for mess dress within 6 months of commissioning as per the regs.  Why not 6 months of finishing formal training (ex. OTU for aircrew)? 

A perfect example would be a 2LT Pilot having to buy RCAF mess dress before earning their wings.  There is a decent chance that s/he would wash out and potentially be transferred to another element, in which case the $1000 or so is wasted.

This is more or less the line of thought at at least 3 CFFTS, for the same reasons (1500 or so of them).

 

[Pusser]

I don't think I've ever seen it enforced per say, but I think if you turned up at a navy mess dinner in your DEUs as a Lt(N) you'd probably get called out for an explanation.  Not as big a deal for SLts and below as they generally aren't trade qualified.

Is awesome to go to an RN event though; the gold stripe on our pants is for their Capt(N) and above.  Pretty hilarious to bump into a seniour officer and have them go off muttering about colonials.  Also, they had bumper cars and laser tag at a summer ball, why can't we do stuff like that?

As a general rule, I think most folks are pretty relaxed about the six month rule for folks who are not yet occupation qualified.  In fact, I know that years ago the Navy actually recommended that the regulation be changed to within six months of qualification, vice commissioning.  I don't know what happened to that recommendation.

I personally have had words though with Lt(N)s who have been vocal about their refusal to buy mess dress ("if they want me to wear it, they'll have to issue it").  As far as I was concerned they were being grossly unprofessional.  I think of it this way, it's actually a shame if a Regular Force officer refuses to buy mess dress.  He/she actually denies him/herself the opportunity to do some pretty cool things.  Mess dinners and similar mess dress events can be a lot of fun.  On more than one occasion, in some of my bitter and twisted periods in my career (they happen folks), I have gone to a mess dinner, talked to old friends and remembered why I still love this outfit, despite its foibles.

As for bumper cars and shooting galleries at our mess events?  They're entirely possible.  All you need is the will (and contact inforamation for a provider).  Get involved in your mess and make it happen!

 

[Jungle]

Wow... It's definitely being enforced in The RCR. See my post above Re: DCO bullying all officers into buying swords.

That looks like abuse of power...

One of our newest officers didn't have mess kit like 3 months after graduating Ph4 and we all got an email quoting the QR&O and an updated copy of the Base Duty Officer list :whiteflag:

Your regimental culture has always fascinated me... thankfully I look at it from the outside.

 

[blackberet17]

A picture is worth a thousand words [original incorrect pic removed].  The attached pictures from the CFDIs (thanks MM for the catch) are the Mess dinner standard for anyone who isn't required to buy a mess kit and decides to not purchase one - No. 2B, Mess Service.

Very simply, DEU pants/jacket, name tag removed worn, ribbons (not medals), white shirt/tux shirt and bow tie.

For you, and obviously its your choice, but I would recommend you NOT run out and spend $1000+ on a mess kit until you are at least far enough along in your RCAF career that you are a Cpl.  :2c:

Whoops. I've not seen name tags at my unit Mess dinners, at least amongst us Jnr Os sans Mess Kit.

 

[Pusser]

"Wow... It's definitely being enforced in The RCR. See my post above Re: DCO bullying all officers into buying swords."

That looks like abuse of power...

Your regimental culture has always fascinated me... thankfully I look at it from the outside.

Bullying folks into buying swords is over the top as there is no regulatory requirement to personally own one.  However, enforcing regulations is not an abuse of power.

 

[blackberet17]

However, enforcing regulations is not an abuse of power.

Never pass a fault, as they say...!

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Never pass a fault, as they say...!

Except those that they've created themselves 

 

[Jungle]

Bullying folks into buying swords is over the top as there is no regulatory requirement to personally own one.  However, enforcing regulations is not an abuse of power.

I thought the way I drafted my post conveyed that message... enforcing regs is fine, however there are a number of ways this can be done.

 

[a_majoor]

Probably the most contentious issue about mess dress and other "stuff" is the ROI.

We are discussing something that costs a great deal of money and is rarely used (YMMV). Even people who have social lives and get invited to multiple functions are talking 2-3 times a year, and taking up closet space the rest of the time. I think a lot of the resistance would drop if there was some way to bring the price of mess kit down to something reasonable (I am willing to pay several hundred dollars on a good suit, but then again, I wear a suit more often than 1-3 times a year...).

 

[George Wallace]

Probably the most contentious issue about mess dress and other "stuff" is the ROI.

We are discussing something that costs a great deal of money and is rarely used (YMMV). Even people who have social lives and get invited to multiple functions are talking 2-3 times a year, and taking up closet space the rest of the time. I think a lot of the resistance would drop if there was some way to bring the price of mess kit down to something reasonable (I am willing to pay several hundred dollars on a good suit, but then again, I wear a suit more often than 1-3 times a year...).

If it were a Tuxedo, how often would you wear it? 

Mess Kit is formal wear, worn by military personnel.  Tuxedos are formal wear worn by civilians.  Your point, about an expensive suit, does not equate to Mess Kit in this discussion. 

 

[Lightguns]

Mess kit is a career investment as a professional.  I never regretted buying it, and enjoyed my time in it.  I even bought the damn blue optional army wedgie.  If you do not wish to be a part of our great tradition, maybe the military ain't for you.  Now that I am about to end my career I regret not buying the sword, really want to have it in my man cave.  I am heartfelt sorry that I did not participate in that bit of my profession.

 

[Navy_Pete]

In the grand scheme, $1000 taxes in for a custom tailored tux with that much expensive bling that needs to get put on, is  a pretty good deal; you can easily pay the same for a tailored suit.

My only issue now is that with all the gym time, my mess kit is getting tight on the shoulders and legs and loose on the waist.  Probably the opposite of how most people 'outgrow' them! 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

My tailor left enough material in mine that I was able to adjust mine for the last 22 years of my career. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Whoops. I've not seen name tags at my unit Mess dinners, at least amongst us Jnr Os sans Mess Kit.

I know  8)

 

[Eye In The Sky]

If it were a Tuxedo, how often would you wear it? 

Mess Kit is formal wear, worn by military personnel.  Tuxedos are formal wear worn by civilians.  Your point, about an expensive suit, does not equate to Mess Kit in this discussion.

At the last Spring Ball, the authorized dress was Mess Kit, DEU "mess dress" or...tuxedo (including CAF mbrs).  A few people opted on the tux rental and it was actually pretty snazzy looking.