Mess Kits

[Grunt_031]

CANFORGEN 194/13 COMD CA 038/13 051700Z DEC 13
CA OFFICER (OFFR) MESS DRESS RANK (RK)
UNCLASSIFIED



THIS MSG APPLIES TO ALL CAF OFFRS, REG AND RES, WHO WEAR THE ARMY UNIFORM


FOLLOWING THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF THE NEW ARMY OFFICER RANKS BY THE MND, ADM(MAT) IS WORKING TOWARDS MANUFACTURE AND DISTRIBUTION OF DEU RK IN 2014


FOR MESS DRESS UNIFORMS, ALL CORPS/BRANCHES HAVE ALREADY RECEIVED THE CA DESIGN AND DIMENSIONS OF THE EMBROIDERED STARS, CROWNS, AND CROSSED BATON/SWORD DEVICES. THE DIVISION G1S HAVE ALSO RECEIVED THE SAME INFO FOR PROMULGATION THROUGH THE CHAIN OF COMMAND (COC)


SIMILAR TO ARMY DEU RK BADGES, CORPS AND REGIMENTS MAY APPLY FOR DEVIATIONS IN PATTERN BASED ON TRADITION. WHILE THE CA ACKNOWLEDGES THAT THERE WILL BE CORPS AND REGIMENTAL LATITUDE IN THE SELECTION OF SUPPLIERS AND PATTERN, THE DIMENSIONS OF ALL MESS DRESS RK DEVICES WILL BE CONSISTENT THROUGHOUT THE CAF AS PROMULGATED AT PARA 3. CORPS OR REGIMENTS THAT DECIDE TO DEVIATE FROM THE STANDARD PATTERN WILL SUBMIT THAT PATTERN THROUGH THE COC FOR APPROVAL BY CA HQ AND FURTHERANCE TO DHH


ALL GENERAL OFFRS, COLONELS AND OFFRS WITHOUT CORPS OR REGIMENTAL AFFILIATIONS WILL ADOPT THE CA STANDARD PATTERN FOR MESS DRESS RK AS PROMULGATED AT PARA 2


OFFRS MAY ELECT TO CONVERT TO THE NEW SYSTEM OF MESS DRESS RK UPON RECEIPT OF THIS MSG. OFFRS WHO WEAR THE CAF STYLE OF RK ARE GRANDFATHERED TO MAINTAIN THEIR CURRENT RANK ON THEIR MESS DRESS UNIFORM SHOULD THEY SO DESIRE


EFFECTIVE FORTHWITH, ALL OFFRS WHO WEAR CA MESS DRESS UNIFORM MUST CONVERT TO THE NEW RK UPON PROMOTION


QUESTIONS MAY BE DIRECTED TO THE ARMY G1 HERITAGE, PATRICK BRYDEN, AT 613-415-7707 OR PATRICK.BRYDEN AT FORCES.GC.CA

 

[my72jeep]

Love this Line NDHQ telling me I "MUST CONVERT" the rank on the Mess Kit I payed $1000+ for if I get Promoted.

EFFECTIVE FORTHWITH, ALL OFFRS WHO WEAR CA MESS DRESS UNIFORM MUST CONVERT TO THE NEW RK UPON PROMOTION

 

[CombatDoc]

Well, the solution then is simple - don't get promoted. Otherwise, upon promotion get your tailor to remove your current rank stripes and replace with pips and crowns, since you'd need to get new rank anyways.

 

[George Wallace]

Well, the solution then is simple - don't get promoted. Otherwise, upon promotion get your tailor to remove your current rank stripes and replace with pips and crowns, since you'd need to get new rank anyways.

Such a simple solution......Wonder why someone never thought of that before? 

 

[PuckChaser]

Love this Line NDHQ telling me I "MUST CONVERT" the rank on the Mess Kit I payed $1000+ for if I get Promoted.

They also ordered you to spend that $1000, so I'm pretty sure they can tell you what $50 rank to put on it.

 

[dapaterson]

Option B: Realize that since you had it made you've expanded your horizons and get a new set made up to accommodate your newly enhanced world view (and waist).

 

[my72jeep]

They also ordered you to spend that $1000, so I'm pretty sure they can tell you what $50 rank to put on it.

Nope I'm CIC I bought it for the LCF.......... :sarcasm:

 

[shootemup604]

Thanks for posting the CANFORGEN - as everything is still stood down for the holidays it hasn't yet come down from the CoC yet...

 

[slayer/raptor]

Anyone know if there are any other changes to the mess kit being made with the changing of the ranks? i.e.: gold bullion replacement of the epaulettes, etc.

Thanks.

 

[Ostrozac]

Anyone know if there are any other changes to the mess kit being made with the changing of the ranks? i.e.: gold bullion replacement of the epaulettes, etc.

Thanks.

As mentioned in the CANFORGEN, some regiments/corps/branches are going to apply for non-standard rank badges, so make sure to check with your Regimental HQ (or equivalent) before changing your ranks, or you may have to change them twice! It wasn't specified which units are going with non-standard rank badges, but I suspect rifle regiments will wear black rank insignia and the int branch will wear silver.

There are changes coming to some DEU accoutrements (especially shoulder titles), but I'm not tracking any more changes to mess dress besides the rank badges.

 

[krimynal]

this might sound dumb but when do you buy the mess kit ? do you HAVE to get one , or it's not a necessity ?

Don't get me wrong, it look REALLY Nice , and speaking with my stepfather who use to be a MWO in Valcartier, he tells me all these story about those really great party where people were wearing mess kit and all the wife's had to come in complete dress also.  Sounded amazing, but when do you "need" to get one , if you ever do .... ?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

NCMs, mess kit is optional.  FYI the new NCM pattern comes to about $1200 once you throw in the tux shirt and other stuff you need, and that's going with the issued oxfords for footwear.  I got mine on the Canex plan rather than shelling it out all at once.

Officers, roughly 6 months from being commissioned IAW the CF Dress Instructions, they are supposed to have a mess kit.

For the amount of functions Jr Ranks actually attend, most of them are just happy enough with DEU/tux shirt/bow tie.  Considerably smaller investment than going all out for the mess kit, especially when you are at the lower end of your earning per annum, etc.

 

[krimynal]

so you could attend some mess dinner with deu's as a NCM and it would be accepted ?

**edit**

as I read for a 2ND time your comment , yes it would.

but there is no one stopping me from getting one if I feel like it , except my paycheck lol !

 

[Eye In The Sky]

From CFP 265 - Canadian Forces Dress Instructions, Chapter 2, Section 1, 'Wear Of Mess Dress', Article/Para 57:

57. Acquisition

a.  All Regular Force officers are required to be in possession of mess dress No. 2, which shall be procured at individual expense. Newly-commissioned officers are required to obtain this order of dress not
later than six months after commissioning.

a. Tous les officiers de la force régulière doivent posséder une tenue de mess no 2, acquise à leurs propres frais. Les officiers nouvellement commissionnés doivent se procurer cette
tenue dans les six mois suivant l’obtention de leur commission.

b. Mess dress No. 2 is optional for Regular Force non-commissioned members and all members of the Reserve Force. Acquisition is the responsibility of the individual.

b. La tenue de mess no 2 est facultative pour des militaires du rang de la force régulière et tous les membres de la force de réserve. Ils doivent se la procurer à leurs frais.

 

[krimynal]

good thanks !

 

[Eye In The Sky]

so you could attend some mess dinner with deu's as a NCM and it would be accepted ?

A picture is worth a thousand words [original incorrect pic removed].  The attached pictures from the CFDIs (thanks MM for the catch) are the Mess dinner standard for anyone who isn't required to buy a mess kit and decides to not purchase one - No. 2B, Mess Service.

Very simply, DEU pants/jacket, name tag removed worn, ribbons (not medals), white shirt/tux shirt and bow tie.

For you, and obviously its your choice, but I would recommend you NOT run out and spend $1000+ on a mess kit until you are at least far enough along in your RCAF career that you are a Cpl.  :2c:

 

[krimynal]

Yeah I won't be spending that kind of money unless I'm CPL or MasterCPL ... but I still was wondering how it was working out , like why do some people have it , some not , etc. etc. 

When I saw that post I figured it would be a good place to ask since NO ONE ( maybe 2-3 retired regular member who came to the unit ) at my Pres unit has a Mess Kit lol !



but yeah , 1500$ for a kit that I'm not gonna wear until later down the road , not worth it , well not now !

 

[ModlrMike]

Very simply, DEU pants/jacket, name tag removed, ribbons (not medals), white shirt/tux shirt and bow tie.

The picture is actually wrong; the member should be wearing their name tag: (Fig 5B1-6 of the Dress Instruction)

As for No. 3 Duty Service Dress except as noted.

Notes:
1. Female personnel may carry a plain black clutch evening bag.
2. Undress ribbons may be worn.
3. Oxfords, pumps, black leather are optional.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I've heard/seen the 2 different...ways/thoughts.  I showed up at a Mess Dinner (WOs and Sgts mess) with it on and was promptly told to take it off.  The next time I attended a dinner (different Mess), I didn't have it on and was told I should.  Guess the safe thing to do is at least have it with you.  Or spend $1500 on a mess kit and not worry about a 5 cent nametag. read the damn reference thoroughly. 

:Tin-Foil-Hat:

Edit - just looked at Fig 5B1-6 and 5C2 (No. 3 Service Dress).  You're 100% correct.  Thanks for picking that up; I hate passing on bad/incorrect info.  Post above edited with correct info and figures from ref.

 

[Privateer]

*hijack*

In my view the CF should save a few dollars by dropping those plastic name tags completely (keep name tapes for operational clothing).  DEU's are supposed to look professional, and plastic name tags are the opposite.  If you need to know someone's name, just do the polite thing and ask.

*hijack ends*