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N. McKay said:
Hmm, except for "Metro Morning" and the "World Report" most of CBC Radio programming is very sad....IMO, of course.
However, if it came down to a choice of CBC TV or CBC Radio then I pick radio.
Media Bias [Merged]
- Thread starter Cloud Cover
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Hmm, except for "Metro Morning" and the "World Report" most of CBC Radio programming is very sad....IMO, of course.
However, if it came down to a choice of CBC TV or CBC Radio then I pick radio.
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No, a Canada-wide dislike of Toronto unifies us.BradCon said:
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As a man who doesn't own a TV I can only comment on CBC Radio. I have been a dedicated listener in 2 provinces and one territory and I can say with confidence that most of the CBC' biased reporting comes from it's local shows. On a national level it remain objective, regardless of the days Government.
About CBC TV,
I'm not a consumer of TV because advertising is insulting to the viewer certainly. However I'd much prefer a broadcaster that was not making a massive profit by importing American cultural ideals, and would sooner attack the bias and therefore the credibility of fox, cnn or even ctv than attack a cultural staple such as the CBC
AS for Toronto...flame on! :flame:
About CBC TV,
I'm not a consumer of TV because advertising is insulting to the viewer certainly. However I'd much prefer a broadcaster that was not making a massive profit by importing American cultural ideals, and would sooner attack the bias and therefore the credibility of fox, cnn or even ctv than attack a cultural staple such as the CBC
AS for Toronto...flame on! :flame:
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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The CBC isn't being run into the ground. The CBC is experiencing exactly what every other broadcaster in Canada and the US is experiencing: shortfalls in advertising revenues. It's a completely level playing field.
I frankly doubt that the CBC does more to unify the country than a solid basic elementary school education.
>and surely a few million dollars is not going to be a burden on any individual.
A few million here, a few million there...surely at some point we decide the sum is "real money"?
Consider the big picture. Here are some of the things that might already have happened to anyone:
- loss of 20-30% of investment asset value
- loss of 5-10% of value of owned real estate (ie. home)
- projected contraction in housing prices of up to 20% (I can't recall if this is from current levels, or from recent peaks)
Here are some things that people not working in the public or quasi-public sectors are likely to experience:
- freeze in raises (wage/salary/benefits)
- cuts to pay, benefits, or incentive compensation
- layoff of peers
- layoff of self (probably without grieving rooms, counsellors, or chauffeur service home on the Black Day)
I am aware that some of those have been or will be experienced among public or quasi-public employees, but at this point is it still reasonable to generalize that most of those employees are going to keep their jobs and benefits, some are in negotiations for contracts which - yet again - will yield net compensation increases in excess of cost of living increases (and how long is that sustainable?), and that pension shortfalls will be made good out of the public purse.
A person who:
- has no defined benefit pension, and has experienced a 20-30% investment writedown
- has experienced or will experience a 5-20% loss of home equity
- has no likelihood of a publicly-funded bailout of either the aforementioned
- will certainly not receive a raise, and may already have received various compensation cuts
- has seen 5% or 10% of his peers laid off
- has some reasonable apprehension of being laid off
has already "paid his share", and is unlikely to look favourably on schemes to cushion others at his (taxpaying) expense. If this recession is as bad as its alarmist doomcryers claim, it is very, very, very important that the "protected" sectors become "unprotected" and share the pain. No function, repeat none, is important enough to be exempt.
I frankly doubt that the CBC does more to unify the country than a solid basic elementary school education.
>and surely a few million dollars is not going to be a burden on any individual.
A few million here, a few million there...surely at some point we decide the sum is "real money"?
Consider the big picture. Here are some of the things that might already have happened to anyone:
- loss of 20-30% of investment asset value
- loss of 5-10% of value of owned real estate (ie. home)
- projected contraction in housing prices of up to 20% (I can't recall if this is from current levels, or from recent peaks)
Here are some things that people not working in the public or quasi-public sectors are likely to experience:
- freeze in raises (wage/salary/benefits)
- cuts to pay, benefits, or incentive compensation
- layoff of peers
- layoff of self (probably without grieving rooms, counsellors, or chauffeur service home on the Black Day)
I am aware that some of those have been or will be experienced among public or quasi-public employees, but at this point is it still reasonable to generalize that most of those employees are going to keep their jobs and benefits, some are in negotiations for contracts which - yet again - will yield net compensation increases in excess of cost of living increases (and how long is that sustainable?), and that pension shortfalls will be made good out of the public purse.
A person who:
- has no defined benefit pension, and has experienced a 20-30% investment writedown
- has experienced or will experience a 5-20% loss of home equity
- has no likelihood of a publicly-funded bailout of either the aforementioned
- will certainly not receive a raise, and may already have received various compensation cuts
- has seen 5% or 10% of his peers laid off
- has some reasonable apprehension of being laid off
has already "paid his share", and is unlikely to look favourably on schemes to cushion others at his (taxpaying) expense. If this recession is as bad as its alarmist doomcryers claim, it is very, very, very important that the "protected" sectors become "unprotected" and share the pain. No function, repeat none, is important enough to be exempt.
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As the only national public radio broadcaster in our country, the CBC absolutely is a unifying force in our country. Basic elementary education varies from city to city let alone coast to coast. The CBC also works to bring to Canada solid journalism from around the world, it gives more attention to Canadians producing Canadian content than any other national entity save the canadian Gov't.
The greater good will be served by providing support for this staple of Canadian heritage certainly.
The picture you cut and paste Mr. Sallows is bleak certainly, but how would you divide the money between so many individuals? Give them a few bucks each? Surely the better solution is to provide for them by supporting a fundamental part of the Canadian identity.
The greater good will be served by providing support for this staple of Canadian heritage certainly.
The picture you cut and paste Mr. Sallows is bleak certainly, but how would you divide the money between so many individuals? Give them a few bucks each? Surely the better solution is to provide for them by supporting a fundamental part of the Canadian identity.
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And I can say with equal or more confidence that there are more than a few reading/posting here who, based on direct experience dealing with national-level media, CBC included, would vigorously disagree. I'll leave it at that....BradCon said:
That said, it would be a shame losing a national broadcaster entirely
When you consider the dollars/person, it never IS much. However, how much of what kind of infrastructure (schools, water plants, etc.) could you build with the $62 million being talked about as the proposed cut? CBC and other media present a lot of stories about what's not being built or fixed - here's one way to get some of those funds.BradCon said:
Would I like to see CBC turn out the lights? No. Could things be run more tightly? As with any larger organization, I'm guessing yes.
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The CBC radio station in Winnipeg is almost useless- their on air personalities are annoying at best. That said, CBC Vancouver is a class act and many of the National level shows (Quirks and Quarks, The House and Cross Country Checkup with Rex Murphy) are actually quite good.
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Regarding
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090226.wcbc0226/BNStory/Front/home
Of course leave it to the conservative Gov't to put the CBC in a position where will need to rely on American programming to survive.
No wonder if any bias does exist, it is against the Conservatives but that's like the rest of Canada.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090226.wcbc0226/BNStory/Front/home
Of course leave it to the conservative Gov't to put the CBC in a position where will need to rely on American programming to survive.
No wonder if any bias does exist, it is against the Conservatives but that's like the rest of Canada.
A
aesop081
Guest
BradCon said:
At least your own bias is obvious.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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What was first claimed was: "The CBC unifies our country more than any other single force out there". Bullsh!t. The occasional myth-sustaining or revisionist - depending on your view - CBC documentary or drama is not the wellspring of Canadian nationalism. Stronger forces and factors of Canadian unity predate the CBC. The CBC was typically one of one or two channels available on local airwaves in some areas when/where I grew up, and I assure you it in no way was even a pale competitor to the basic information and narrative imparted in schools.
Other broadcasting companies bring Canada solid journalism; and, to the extent that Canadian content matters: you pursue your happiness, and I'll pursue mine. "Canadian content" is not a proofing material against mediocrity, and whyever should anyone be forced to pay for mediocrity instead of something they wish to consume?
>Give them a few bucks each?
Yes.
>Surely the better solution is to provide for them by supporting a fundamental part of the Canadian identity.
At the end of the day, "Canadian identity" is not a hot meal on a plate or a roof overhead. For the majority of us who are fortunate enough to be well above those circumstances, what the f#ck is this magical "Canadian identity" thing you think we should be forced to buy, even if we could get a tangible grip on it and prove that a dollar for the CBC was really a dollar for "Canadian identity" and not a dollar for "subsidized film/radio/TV jobs"? If a country's national identity is in danger of disappearing due to a slight reduction in the work force of a broadcasting corporation, it has no national identity to speak of that's worth preserving: cut the funding entirely.
If the best supporters of the CBC can do is muster the same old weightless appeal to "Canadian identity", there are no arguments of any weight.
Other broadcasting companies bring Canada solid journalism; and, to the extent that Canadian content matters: you pursue your happiness, and I'll pursue mine. "Canadian content" is not a proofing material against mediocrity, and whyever should anyone be forced to pay for mediocrity instead of something they wish to consume?
>Give them a few bucks each?
Yes.
>Surely the better solution is to provide for them by supporting a fundamental part of the Canadian identity.
At the end of the day, "Canadian identity" is not a hot meal on a plate or a roof overhead. For the majority of us who are fortunate enough to be well above those circumstances, what the f#ck is this magical "Canadian identity" thing you think we should be forced to buy, even if we could get a tangible grip on it and prove that a dollar for the CBC was really a dollar for "Canadian identity" and not a dollar for "subsidized film/radio/TV jobs"? If a country's national identity is in danger of disappearing due to a slight reduction in the work force of a broadcasting corporation, it has no national identity to speak of that's worth preserving: cut the funding entirely.
If the best supporters of the CBC can do is muster the same old weightless appeal to "Canadian identity", there are no arguments of any weight.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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>Of course leave it to the conservative Gov't to put the CBC in a position where will need to rely on American programming to survive.
And apparently neither that, nor a moment's reflection, prompted you to ask the obvious question: with even the most handsomely funded CBC still having to compete with hundreds of affordably accessible channels of TV and radio programming and a world's worth of entertainment readily (often freely, to the unscrupulous and short-sighted) available over the internet for years, why hasn't "Canadian identity" been extinguished?
Obvious answer: "Canadian identity" doesn't need the CBC to survive. The CBC is just another broadcasting corporation. Treat it like one.
And apparently neither that, nor a moment's reflection, prompted you to ask the obvious question: with even the most handsomely funded CBC still having to compete with hundreds of affordably accessible channels of TV and radio programming and a world's worth of entertainment readily (often freely, to the unscrupulous and short-sighted) available over the internet for years, why hasn't "Canadian identity" been extinguished?
Obvious answer: "Canadian identity" doesn't need the CBC to survive. The CBC is just another broadcasting corporation. Treat it like one.
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You're using pathos, for an argument my friend....logos works much better.
That CBC is the ONLY national public broadcaster, ergo it is the most important. It may be a lofty claim I made, but the yet to be named force which rivals the CBC's binding powers is still floating in the ether.
There is no Canadian rival. NCIS or the Simpsons bring us together so we can dismantle the fabric of Canadian identity not add to it. A Unique Canadian identity is important to me, and that the CBC offers something that is not pushing the American ideal is important to Canada
That CBC is the ONLY national public broadcaster, ergo it is the most important. It may be a lofty claim I made, but the yet to be named force which rivals the CBC's binding powers is still floating in the ether.
There is no Canadian rival. NCIS or the Simpsons bring us together so we can dismantle the fabric of Canadian identity not add to it. A Unique Canadian identity is important to me, and that the CBC offers something that is not pushing the American ideal is important to Canada
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BradCon said:
Take away HNIC and the CBC will collapse like a house of cards. They provide nothing else that's not supplied better by public or private broadcasters. CBC is a welfare client sucking the hind tit of the Canadian public. Keep a generic world radio for outreach and close the doors on the rest.
CBC is the Octomom of the broadcast world.
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Scandalous.
I'm just glad that Bruno Gerussi isn't alive to hear this sort of talk.
I'm just glad that Bruno Gerussi isn't alive to hear this sort of talk.
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Occam said:
I'm with ya there, but figure I could find it on the computer if I had to.
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recceguy said:
Then I would challenge you to take a week's worth of Radio 1 programming and show me where to find the same kind of programming on other broadcasters in Canada. Who else is doing anything even close to Ideas or the Sunday Edition, as a couple of examples? Not just in the Toronto or Vancouver markets, mind you -- but in virtually every corner of the country.
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CBC Radio and CBC Television are different beings. "Cross country Checkup", "The world at six" "As it happens", etc are all good examples of a national radio broadcaster this fills a niche that noone else can (not even Ryan Seacrest!) CBC Television is but one of three "networks" that are (a) Canadian and (b) National. CTV and Global ("CanWest Global, or whatever its called) are the other two. Now, CBC TV does offer commercial free television for children in the mornings, which is great, but other than that and HNIC, I cannot think of a popular CBC show. Yes, the news shows "...the Canadian perspective", whatever that means, but for me Floyd Lloyd Robertson and the other fine folks at CTV, and to a lesser extent the crew at Global, are much better and less obviously biased.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
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>You're using pathos, for an argument my friend....logos works much better.
You're the one appealing to "Canadian identity", not me. And I see you're still fixated on the idea that only a broadcasting agency can be the most important "binding" force of national unity.
>A Unique Canadian identity is important to me
Exactly. It's important to you. Then you should support it. You should buy the products of those agencies which you believe promote it. But you should not assume that your assessment of the importance of those agencies is necessarily correct, or that anyone who doesn't share your aesthetic preferences should have to help you pay for them regardless.
You're the one appealing to "Canadian identity", not me. And I see you're still fixated on the idea that only a broadcasting agency can be the most important "binding" force of national unity.
>A Unique Canadian identity is important to me
Exactly. It's important to you. Then you should support it. You should buy the products of those agencies which you believe promote it. But you should not assume that your assessment of the importance of those agencies is necessarily correct, or that anyone who doesn't share your aesthetic preferences should have to help you pay for them regardless.
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Brad is quite correct. If the CBC has something unique to offer and you are willing to pay for that "unique" thing, then pull out your wallet.
If there is a solution that makes sense then CBC should become one or more specialty channels on PPV TV and Sirius Radio, and work to provide programming to their subscriber base. Based on the veiwership numbers, CBC PPV and CBC Sirius will be increadibly lean and mean machines....
If there is a solution that makes sense then CBC should become one or more specialty channels on PPV TV and Sirius Radio, and work to provide programming to their subscriber base. Based on the veiwership numbers, CBC PPV and CBC Sirius will be increadibly lean and mean machines....
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