MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )

[DAA]

Mata-Pata is managed by your local supporting URS.  If an overpayment (ie; debit balance) is showing on your Pay Guide/Statement, it is your URS that will resolve the issue.

 

[FGuard]

New Here, Not much for writing on forums but I am seeking some advice and maybe some input, I have been pushed to the limits on this and feel that i am victim to some ones mistake. (Redress pending) Little brief about me 18yrs in 13 of which is Class B and C, my contract was cut this fiscal year but found gainful employment after fiscal year.  I have not Parent Unit as I am in the PRL

So  I informed my CoC that I was going on Pata Leave in Jan 2013, I filed the required paperwork that is needed for Pata, everything was completed on my end (leave pass and Mata/Pata request form). Here's were it gets interesting 3 days after I applied for my Pata, I get put on a TCAT. No big deal 3 months before I go on Pata (WRONG). Apparently 2088 go directly the Adjt in this Command and not thru the OR.  So I burn up my Leave thru Christmas my Pata is starts the day most everyone is back to work in Jan. I call the OR the next day asking for my ROE so I can apply for my benefits. I get this for a answer "oh I don't see it here"  it's was sitting on the Adjt's desk and has not been signed or anything. Then the clerk tell's me I have to find a Unit to parade with.. to continue my pata (So you couldn't  tell me this when I was on Leave to seek this out but I'm on Pata with my daughter so I have all the free time in the world?) So at this point, I can not get into any Reserve unit cause I'm on a TCAT  (didn't know this never been injured before). So I was instructed that I go the JPSU, what they suggested to me was not a option I was willing to take. This meeting did not sit well with the G1 and it was blown out of proportion by the Pata clerk. And after my meeting at the JPSU the OR just figured I was on TCAT. So all this stuff going on and i'm dragging my 6 month old daughter around with me in the dead of winter. TCAT gets removed end of Feb. I received word that I have been accepted for a job and that the paper work will follow soon. I still haven't received my leave pass for my Pata. I was asking ever 2ND day for it, so I clear the mess and stop my mess dues. 31 March I receive my leave pass and pata paperwork with the last 4 months cancelled. So like any old reservist I call DCBA and start asking questions, in regards to Pata leave. Long story shorten (Basically via email I was told a mbr on Mata/Pata's contract ends the day there Leave starts regardless if there contract ends in the middle of there leave.). The Reason I was told and I still can not find any policy anywhere, my Pata was cancelled due to Hardship on the soldier. I finally received my Pata file after the fact just the other day and right there the Adjt minutes says mbr is entitled. Also received confirmation email were clerk admits that there was a misunderstanding. 


Feed back would be nice or suggestions??
Also I had to cut my regular IE parental short so I can start my new Class B as the feet draggers were not giving me any info,,

- mod edit to thread title to correct spelling, grammar -

 

[OldSolduer]

I am not an administrative genius, but many of the folks on here are.

 

[Occam]

I'm not an administrative genius either, but I would make one recommendation:  take some time and see if you can clean up your post a little bit.  I have to admit it was difficult for me to follow the chronology of it all and it was difficult to read.  There are some people here who may be able to give you advice but try to make it easy on them by explaining your situation as clearly as you possibly can.  Hope it all works out for you.

 

[63 Delta]

Ya, its definitely hard to read. Try posting it almost like the points of a memo, and remember the ABC's. Accurate, Brief and Clear.

 

[ARMY_101]

I have not Parent Unit as I am in the PRL

??? Your parent unit is the PRL then... they're the ones who would handle your admin and paperwork and application for PATA.

2. You mentioned that you applied for and had your PATA dates approved. That's good. But then you're getting into something about leave passes not being approved? Your application for PATA and leave pass should have gone up and been approved together; they're basically the same thing: one applies you for leave from work and the other for benefits.

Assuming the leave was approved, that means you had a Class B contract which extended beyond the last day of your PATA, since when you're on PATA you're still held against your Class B position (but paid from a national fin code). So I don't understand how you were "accepted for a new job" a) while being on PATA and b) when you were still occupying your previous position...

31 March I receive my leave pass and pata paperwork with the last 4 months cancelled.

So what were you doing for the past four months (according to the chain)  ???

 

[FGuard]

Thanks I will clean it up and make it easier to read, I didn't think to do that. Now that I look at it. Sorry not the type to write these things... I normally suck it up and deal with it. But I must say for the last 5 yrs I spent helping soldiers and there families deal with stuff like this, stuff even worse.

Army101 you are correct my leave and application were approved at the same time, but they were never returned to me, I got them on the 5th of Apr annotated to 31 March 13.  My Contract was terminated on 31 Mar. I was informed by the Res Management clerk that I could continue my Pata as a Class A. And that as long as I have a position number I could continue with my benefits.

I will fix my post to make it more readable
 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

When you say "redress pending", do you mean you've submitted one and it is processing or you are considering/planning to submit one?

 

[ARMY_101]

Army101 you are correct my leave and application were approved at the same time, but they were never returned to me, I got them on the 5th of Apr annotated to 31 March 13.

So you went on leave without having your leave pass in your possession ???

My Contract was terminated on 31 Mar. I was informed by the Res Management clerk that I could continue my Pata as a Class A. And that as long as I have a position number I could continue with my benefits.

Doesn't sound right. Only Class B reservists are entitled to benefits like PATA/MATA leave; Class A just wouldn't work for the duration of their paternity leave (they'd request ED&T).

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Actually- no.  My wife ( a class A reservist) just finished MATA.  She was on MATA, with no benefits and no cost to either the CF or EI.  This is separate and different from ED&T.

 

[ARMY_101]

Actually- no.  My wife ( a class A reservist) just finished MATA.  She was on MATA, with no benefits and no cost to either the CF or EI.  This is separate and different from ED&T.

When I speak of "MATA/PATA leave," I mean the leave in which the member is compensated in accordance with CBI 205.461 - MATERNITY AND PARENTAL ALLOWANCES (PATA).

OP: see, for example: http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/all-ind/faq/matpata-imatipar-eng.asp, and read up on the CBI noted above.

205.461(3) (Eligibility) A member is eligible to be paid MATA or PATA for the period set out in paragraph (4) if the member:

in the case of MATA, is granted maternity leave or, in the case of PATA, is granted parental leave;

has completed at least six months of service in the Canadian Forces immediately prior to
the birth of the member’s child,

the start of legal proceedings under the laws of a province to adopt a child and the placement of the child with the member for the purpose of adoption, or

obtaining an order under the laws of a province for the adoption of a child;

subject to paragraphs (7) and (11), is eligible to receive and is in receipt of maternity or parental benefits, as applicable, under the Employment Insurance Act or the Québec Parental Insurance Plan, based solely on their service in the Canadian Forces; and

agrees to serve a period of cumulative paid days of service calculated as follows;

for Regular Force members, a period equivalent to the period during which the member received maternity allowance, parental allowance or both, as applicable;

for Reserve Force members, a period of cumulative paid days for service calculated in accordance with the following formula...

The formula referenced at the CBI usually means you have to be on Class B to "repay" your MATA/PATA leave to the CAF.  So without a Class B position, I don't see how you could be on PATA leave. (As well, as I'm sure you're aware, you must always hold a valid Class B position in order to serve on the PRL or you will be released from the CAF.)

 

[beach_bum]

That's not true.  Class A soldiers as well as Class B who have finished their contracts are entitled as long as they have enough hours in the last year to qualify.  (I believe it's 600) I have seen Class A soldiers receive the benefits.  They do not have to go back to Class B after either.  They need to repay the days.  That can be done in Class A days.  It will just take a long time.

 

[FGuard]

Sorry Hard drive got fried over the weekend.

I will try and make this easier to understand.


1. Informed CoC that I will be taking Parental Leave in Jan 07 2013  ( Aug 2012)

2. Spoke with Pata Clerk about process to apply (Sept 2012)

3. Applied for Pata Leave on 24 Oct 2012 filled out dates from 7 Jan 2013 to 29 Jul 13, 

4. Was told that my Pata dates exceeded my contract, but that I could continue cause I haven't had a break in service for 13 yrs and that I could pay back my time on Class A or if I got another Class B

5. Paperwork submitted from Pata Clerk to CO thru Adjt. 31 Oct 12 (Application form. CF100, Birth Certificate)

6. 08 Jan 2013 Asked for CF100 and ROE, Pata Clerk had know idea were it was at.. Still on Adjt's desk,

7. 14 Jan 2013 received ROE from Pata clerk still No CF100, asked for it many times

8. At this time I was trying to get into a Reserve Unit to get position Number, since I have never been on a TCAT before I didn't think it mattered. So I could not transfer to a Unit till this was cleared.
Long story short JPSU recommend DComp I said no, cause I would have to come off Pata and I could use that time to recover.
( bigger crap sandwich started over this cause someone fail to read email entirely)

9. 18 Feb 2013 Did not receive payment from Military (strange though I was being paid from Ottawa??)

10. March 15 finally off TCAT, Applied for new Class B cause I knew mine was not going to be extended, At this time was waiting for RSM to grant me a position number at Reserve Unit.

11. 26 March verbally confirmed Class B Contract. 3yr Contract

12. 05 Apr Finally after 3 month of nagging receive CF 100 photocopy  and 2268 photocopy with dates changed to reflect the end of contract. (Just a assumation I figure they held on to my leave pass so they could change the dates after the fact).

13. 08 Apr Received letter of intent from the COS, informed CoC that I have secured a Class B just needed to know what was going on with my Pata.

14. 1 week later I could not wait for a answer and inform my future employer that I would start 15 July cut my time with my family short so that could start working.

15. I was told that my Pata leave was cancelled by the DCO and the Adjt cause of "Hardship" they felt that I could not afford to pay back the top up I would have received.  Although the Adjt's Minutes on original application states that I'm entitled, then the COS asks to speak to him on this then changes his mind to "In discussion with DCO will not entertain this pass 31 Mar"
( Note to this COS was the only one to date his minute, this was the same week my 2088 was signed buy DCO,)



Thanks for your input so far, In regards to a post my redress has not been submitted just yet, I want to be 100% I have my Admin friend looking over it,

 

[ARMY_101]

Strange. Sounds like a special situation that will best be dealt with through your home unit.

 

[FGuard]

Well considering this is "My Home Unit" or so i'm told now there is no such thing as the LFWA PRL, I'm pretty sure if I was still with my home unit back in Ottawa I wouldn't have this problem. I know it's very strange I have spoken with many SNR NCO's about this and have never heard of a situation like this..

 

[ARMY_101]

Well considering this is "My Home Unit" or so i'm told now there is no such thing as the LFWA PRL, I'm pretty sure if I was still with my home unit back in Ottawa I wouldn't have this problem. I know it's very strange I have spoken with many SNR NCO's about this and have never heard of a situation like this..

That's what I mean. Your chain clearly had reasons for ordering what they did and we're not getting the full story here on an internet forum. So they're the best ones to ask to clarify their position.

And yes, the LFWA PRL still exists.

 

[ArmyGuy99]

Heads up from a RMS Clerk friend of mine

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2391071749/permalink/10151594165641750/

basically you loose 1 day for every month with 31 days.  = 1 week of pay for every 12 months of MATA/PATA. 

But read it for yourself.  I'm no longer in so I don't know if the CANFORGEN is out yet. 

Gotta love budget cut season.

Best of luck to those affected.


**edited because I hit the enter button early****

 

[Sparkplugs]

Well, that's close. You don't lose a week of pay for every 12 months on mata/pata, you lose the military top-up of a week's worth of pay, not the whole thing, seeing as EI kicked in some. In my case, I'll owe about 60% of a week's pay for my year on maternity/parental. Still crap, I think that's one they should have to eat, or if they're not going to eat it, they should be taking back the money from everyone who's ever gotten it, not just a certain amount of years. But boy does this suck for those people I know who've managed to pop out four (or more!) kids in the last little while.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

One has to wonder what sort of byzantine accounting system they are using when the situation below:

FROM 1 JAN 01 MATA/PATA BENEFITS HAVE BEEN CALCULATED BASED ON THE
NUMBER OF DAYS IN A CALENDAR MONTH. THIS WAS INACCURATE AND CCPS HAS
BEEN REPROGRAMMED RETROACTIVELY TO COMPLY WITH REF A. MATA/PATA
BENEFITS WERE OVERPAID BY 1 DAY FOR EACH CALENDAR MONTH WITH 31 DAYS
PAGE 2 RCCLHAV6003 UNCLAS
AND ANY PAYMENTS IN THE MONTH OF FEBRUARY HAVE BEEN UNDERPAID BY 1 OR
2 DAYS DEPENDING ON WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS A LEAP YEAR

can be allowed to occur. Furthermore, how inept an auditing job was conducted for those affected years that this wasn't noticed. Unless somewhere there is an RMS clerk, sunning him/herself on the deck of his/her 42' yacht in Bermuda, all bought with the proceeds of  an 'Office Space' type embezzlement scheme.  ;D

 

[PMedMoe]

or if they're not going to eat it, they should be taking back the money from everyone who's ever gotten it, not just a certain amount of years.

Then they'd have to do the same for pay raises, allowances and other benefits.

But boy does this suck for those people I know who've managed to pop out four (or more!) kids in the last little while.

At least they got paid parental leave, unlike others.