Legion Poppy Copyright issues (bikers, NHL, etc.)

[The Bread Guy]

Lest the Legion get upset over copyright issues, I've updated my Twitter icon with the British Legion's poppy - here's a link if you're interested in doing the same.

 

[medicineman]

The only thing that was missing from the Legion's Bling Book...  :

It should read "I am"x" years old and still able to remember"

MM

 

[dogger1936]

But that is just the point. Canadians (for the most part) do not and never have worn it primarily as an RCL symbol. That is not how the symbol has ever been sold in Remembrance Day marketting, it's never been openly identified as an owned trademark of the RCL that they are selling when they pitch "wear this in Remembrance of those who have fallen" .... and that's why it grates every time the RCL launches a legal attack at someone for using some form of the poppy as a symbol of Remembrance. The RCL's own marketting approach over decades has genericized it to a Canadian symbol of Remembrance, and yet they attack others for embracing that perception and wishing to further honour its role as such a symbol.

Thanks. I think thats what I was trying to say...albeit less coherently and a little more crass.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

November Company, 3 RCR uses the poppy in its logo and colours I wonder if the legion will tell us we need to stop now

 

[Fishbone Jones]

November Company, 3 RCR uses the poppy in its logo and colours I wonder if the legion will tell us we need to stop now

Not the Legion poppy though

 

[Greymatters]

What alternatives are out there?

Is there a replacement for the poppy, for those who want to wear something to show their support, but not wear a legion poppy?

 

[mikeninercharlie]

On ANZAC Day, the wearing of small sprigs of rosemary in the coat lapel, pinned to the breast or held in place by medals is thus synonymous with remembrance and commemoration. This plant was, in ancient times, supposed to strengthen memory. Greek scholars wore rosemary in their hair to help remember their studies, and the association with remembrance has carried through to modern times. In literature and folklore it is an emblem of remembrance. I may just start something here in Victoria now that I 'm no longer wearing a uniform and rosemary grows in Mrs M9C's garden.

 

[gun runner]

No it doesn't.

It states "the red poppy".  Not "the red poppy distributed through the  RCL's Poppy Fund", nor does it say "the red poppy copyrighted by the RCL shall be worn."

I have seen many a BSM/RSM get downright irate at a troop not conforming to a dress code that is used by the rest of the unit. It is all or none. Ubique.

 

[The Bread Guy]

On ANZAC Day, the wearing of small sprigs of rosemary in the coat lapel, pinned to the breast or held in place by medals is thus synonymous with remembrance and commemoration. This plant was, in ancient times, supposed to strengthen memory. Greek scholars wore rosemary in their hair to help remember their studies, and the association with remembrance has carried through to modern times. In literature and folklore it is an emblem of remembrance. I may just start something here in Victoria now that I no longer wearing a uniform and rosemary grows in Mrs M9C's garden.

I could see a Canadian RSM's blood pressure peaking at the sight of that on someone's coat lapel (or even as a fragrant hackle?)....  >

 

[mikeninercharlie]

I could see a Canadian RSM's blood pressure peaking at the sight of that on someone's coat lapel (or even as a fragrant hackle?)....  >

That would be even more entertaining than going toe to toe with the LOF Command RSM over dress issues, that was like dealing with a mentally retarded monkey wearing blue serge / high browns... I'll now have to determine the specifics of the rosemary sprig to place behind my rather insignificant stand of 11 medals . I do enjoy being a FFC/RSM (flat faced civvy / retired service man) >

 

[Blackadder1916]

What alternatives are out there?

Is there a replacement for the poppy, for those who want to wear something to show their support, but not wear a legion poppy?

If you're a Newfoundlander (or anything else, we're not picky) you could wear a "forget-me-not".  I discussed the forget-me-not as a floral symbol of remembrance in another thread. http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/2775/post-889384.html#msg889384

 

[kstart]

The Legion's threat of lawsuits over this-- they'll waste donated funds (meant for support of the troops), it's all a violation of the spirit to things, 'eat their own'.  Perhaps I'll write to the RCL and torture them with one of my long-winded protest letters   I don't see anything wrong with the patch. . .it's very respectful, honouring the spirit of things. . . do they think they own the phrase "remember" too?  It seems like positive actions what the Freedom Riders are about, "Honour and Freedom", "We will remember them" and what a great way to do this, freedom exercised by bike, social, many positive benefits.  The poppy is sacred, the spirit from McRae's poem, that patch is all about respect.

 

[Journeyman]

...going toe to toe with the LOF Command RSM over dress issues...

  :rofl:

 

[2010newbie]

The Legion's threat of lawsuits over this-- they'll waste donated funds (meant for support of the troops)

Funds donated for use in the RCL's "Poppy Fund" through poppy sales and community donations cannot and are not used for administrative Legion functions. They are held in Public Trust and can only be used to assist veterans within the community, cadet organizations, and other charitable associations. The entire amount of funds collected is supposed to be used up within that year (meaning they shouldn't be stockpiling poppy funds, they should be using it all up before the end of the fiscal year). If Legions have a build-up of funds and they are approaching year-end, they can send the money to Dominion Command and they will spend it for veterans services in communities that do not generate a lot of money through poppy sales and require additional support. Branches can also choose to send all their money to Dominion Command to be spent in other communities if the veteran presence in theirs is non-existent.

I agree that the approach the RCL has taken with regards to the "cease and desist" letters were the wrong approach and it sends a negative message to the community it is trying to support. Boycotting the poppy is not the right approach in my opinion, the funds raised through poppy sales still go to support good initiatives within the communities. Notifying Dominion Command that they are alienating one of the target demographics they should be trying hard to retain is the message that needs to be sent.

As for not agreeing with RCL branch activities, anything that happens at a branch level is what the branch members have supported to a certain degree. Each branch is run by elected volunteers; the only paid people are usually the bar stewards, and there are general meetings held every month where you can voice your opinion and change how your branch is being run. It is like people complaining about politicians yet they don't turn out to vote. The local branch is a "club" and the club will only be as good as the effort the local members put into running it.

 

[Danjanou]

  :rofl:

C'mon JM we all know you worship these stalwart defenders of the fre world. :whiteflag:

 

[Danjanou]

This is formal note to the RCL from Provincial and Dominion commands that were sent the link to this thread.

I attended the repatriation service in Toronto for our latest fallen soldier last night you might be interested to know this.  Despite the four hour delay, there was, as always, a large contingent, several dozen, of veterans from bike clubs around Ontario, many who made long journeys to be there.

Conversely the contingent from the RCL in Blues and Gray, again as almost always was minimal, this time two members, and that's from the 27 branches with a membership in excess of 8,000 in the city. I realize that there may have been others on the bridges, but the disparity in numbers is evident.

How can you still maintain any credible moral authority over your recent actions and decisions? I do understand the legal ramifications of copyrighting a symbol. That's to ensure some unscrupulous businessman running off a thousand poppy shirts this time of year and counting on the ignorance and the good will of the citizenry to buy them thinking the money goes to a good cause and not his bank account. It is not to attack veterans honouring their own, or even some old lady making cookies as a good will gesture.

By the way the other member present came form her shift poppying at a local mall. She told me she believed it was more important to be there; although she was afraid some in her branch would be upset she missed part of her shift in the mall. I watched quite a few of those bikers drop folded bills in the poppy box even though they were wearing one. She's also been at almost all the repat services as far as I know. She seems to get what's important, perhaps we should make her Dominion President.  :remembrance:

 

[Fishbone Jones]

This is formal note to the RCL from Provincial and Dominion commands that were sent the link to this thread.

I attended the repatriation service in Toronto for our latest fallen soldier last night you might be interested to know this.  Despite the four hour delay, there was, as always, a large contingent, several dozen, of veterans from bike clubs around Ontario, many who made long journeys to be there.

Conversely the contingent from the RCL in Blues and Gray, again as almost always was minimal, this time two members, and that's from the 27 branches with a membership in excess of 8,000 in the city. I realize that there may have been others on the bridges, but the disparity in numbers is evident.

How can you still maintain any credible moral authority over your recent actions and decisions? I do understand the legal ramifications of copyrighting a symbol. That's to ensure some unscrupulous businessman running off a thousand poppy shirts this time of year and counting on the ignorance and the good will of the citizenry to buy them thinking the money goes to a good cause and not his bank account. It is not to attack veterans honouring their own, or even some old lady making cookies as a good will gesture.

By the way the other member present came form her shift poppying at a local mall. She told me she believed it was more important to be there; although she was afraid some in her branch would be upset she missed part of her shift in the mall. I watched quite a few of those bikers drop folded bills in the poppy box even though they were wearing one. She's also been at almost all the repat services as far as I know. She seems to get what's important, perhaps we should make her Dominion President.  :remembrance:

Kudos and Milpoints Danjanou. Let's see what kind of response they give............if they give one.

 

[2010newbie]

Kudos and Milpoints Danjanou. Let's see what kind of response they give............if they give one.

Ditto. I was on one of the overpasses yesterday (Brock Street), and even though I saw a couple of the local Legion executive in attendance (not in Legion uniform) I was disappointed that the Legion Colour party or other members were not there representing the Legion. I will bring this up at the General Meeting tonight and see what kind of response I get.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Kudos and Milpoints Danjanou. Let's see what kind of response they give............if they give one.

Agreed.  Milpoints also awarded by me.  I wrote them a email telling them what I thought of it all when the story broke and as yet I have not received a reply.  Don't expect one honestly.  I am sure they are too high in their marble palaces to hear what we mere mortals have to say.

 

[Scoobs]

I sent an email the first day that I found out about this.  I still have not received a response back, nor do I expect that I will get one.  Frankly, and it is sad, I feel that the Legion no longer represents our interests.